Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 70 70

[kevhtx]

1 minute ago, Aweandlorder said:

Again. R&M is hot. There's no mistaking that. 

But you can clearly see by jaydogs examples that it was shilled. 

That, and the fact that a modern comic book based on a modern cartoon show is fetching those high numbers make me seriously question the behavior of that book in the market

For that one book, sure. It has some weird, fraudulent activity. But, it being a 1:50 #1, its a valuable book anyway. Without that, it would easily be $1000k most likely, possibly more. I don't know if it would reach the price it reached without those bids, but with the numerous examples of range of graded/raw #1s selling for hundreds of dollars, its not a leap to think that a 1:50 variant for a low print book would sell high. Would anyone argue that?? The variants of #1 are even selling for a nice chunk of change. These are not all being manipulated.

[kevhtx]

22 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

We can definitely assume that. 

Show me another modern book based on an animated series that has exploded the way this book did for months now. 

Theres no first appearance here, no real collectible attributes to that book other than pure high market sales for no reason, backed by proved shills. 

Why does there have to be an example? Why did SDCC have numerous R&M exclusives? Why have numerous other cons have R&M exclusives and have Roiland attend? Why have his lines been huge? Why did he not do sketches or remarks at Fan Expo Canada (answer: time, too many people, not enough time)? 

Why can't you guys just accept the simple answer here? I have experience with selling these books. Ive sold 7 books so far. Only 1 underperformed (I still made money on it). It only under-peformed because i didn't pick a very good cover for that one. The others sold fast and a couple sold extremely fast. I think 1 or 2 sold soon after I posted the auctions. I sell a lot of books and these have definitely been the hottest books Ive had in a while.

Were these people scammed yesterday?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rick-and-Morty-1-Comic-CGC-9-8-First-Print-4-2015-Oni-Press-SS-4-Autographs-/152705316025?epid=235046671&hash=item238df234b9:g:SbMAAOSwAr9Zg8LW

Edited September 26, 2017 by kevhtx

[Jaydogrules]

18 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

Why does there have to be an example? Why did SDCC have numerous R&M exclusives? Why have numerous other cons have R&M exclusives and have Roiland attend? Why have his lines been huge? Why did he not do sketches or remarks at Fan Expo Canada (answer: time, too many people, not enough time)? 

Why can't you guys just accept the simple answer here? I have experience with selling these books. Ive sold 7 books so far. Only 1 underperformed (I still made money on it). It only under-peformed because i didn't pick a very good cover for that one. The others sold fast and a couple sold extremely fast. I think 1 or 2 sold soon after I posted the auctions. I sell a lot of books and these have definitely been the hottest books Ive had in a while.

Were these people scammed yesterday?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rick-and-Morty-1-Comic-CGC-9-8-First-Print-4-2015-Oni-Press-SS-4-Autographs-/152705316025?epid=235046671&hash=item238df234b9:g:SbMAAOSwAr9Zg8LW

Yes that auction also looks very shilled. 

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=152705316025&showauto=true

Bidder s***m (92) 100% seller bidding activity.  

Bidder h***o (82) 100% seller bidding activity.

Bidder 0***A  (547) 75% seller bidding activity at time of auction, and the under bidder.

By the way Kev I was originally only referring to the originally linked set of the 1:50 variant "sales" as being a sham, not the entire series.  But maybe I should look at some of the other books selling too.  I do believe there is some interest in the series, but there is clear and present attempted market manipulation going on.  I mean you don't even have to look very long or hard to see it.  My question is, if demand really was all that intense, why all the shilling?  It seems to me the only point of the shilling is to create a perception of an artificially high demand, and then unload inventory on those unsuspecting real fans at bizarrely inflated prices who don't bother (or know how) to take a look under the hood.  

-J.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[kevhtx]

1 minute ago, Jaydogrules said:

I do believe there is some interest in the series, but there is clear and present attempted market manipulation going on.

You would have to look at all the hot series and look for it in all of the high priced books then. I am positive that these hot markets attract it. R&M is not the lone series that has attracted fraudulent bids because it got hot. Also, many of these books have gone in BIN or Best Offers anyways. I don't do auctions. I only do fixed price as well.

[Aweandlorder]

25 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

Why does there have to be an example? Why did SDCC have numerous R&M exclusives? Why have numerous other cons have R&M exclusives and have Roiland attend? Why have his lines been huge? Why did he not do sketches or remarks at Fan Expo Canada (answer: time, too many people, not enough time)? 

Why can't you guys just accept the simple answer here? I have experience with selling these books. Ive sold 7 books so far. Only 1 underperformed (I still made money on it). It only under-peformed because i didn't pick a very good cover for that one. The others sold fast and a couple sold extremely fast. I think 1 or 2 sold soon after I posted the auctions. I sell a lot of books and these have definitely been the hottest books Ive had in a while.

Were these people scammed yesterday?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rick-and-Morty-1-Comic-CGC-9-8-First-Print-4-2015-Oni-Press-SS-4-Autographs-/152705316025?epid=235046671&hash=item238df234b9:g:SbMAAOSwAr9Zg8LW

Because of popularity in comparison to prices 

 

 

[kevhtx]

1 minute ago, Aweandlorder said:

Because of popularity in comparison to prices 

 

 

Ok, Im gonna drop this. No point in beating this up anymore. Obviously I have a different opinion and experience on it. Ill continue to sell my books and make money on them.

[Aweandlorder]

14 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

Ok, Im gonna drop this. No point in beating this up anymore. Obviously I have a different opinion and experience on it. Ill continue to sell my books and make money on them.

For the millionth time.. No one is saying that its not hot. Were just debating the cause of inflation.

Wouldnt you like to know if the industry you trade in is inflating prices based on fraud. Would you continue to engage in it keeping a blind eye had you known for a fact that there are scammers on the market causing market manipulation? Do you think that if this happens with many other titles someone wouldnt question it sooner or later? What would be the effect of such a scandal on your business?

Edited September 26, 2017 by Aweandlorder

[Jackhartmann]

Got to love the demand among collectors and speculators.

 

[kevhtx]

8 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

For the millionth time.. No one is saying that its not hot. Were just debating the cause of inflation.

Wouldnt you like to know if the industry you trade in is inflating prices based on fraud. Would you continue to engage in it keeping a bling eye had you known for a fact that there are scammers on the market causing market manipulation? Do you think that if this happens with many other titles someone wouldnt question it sooner or later? What would be the affect of such a scandal on your business?

Like I said previously, I think all hot markets have it and I think this market has so many products (not just comics) that are feeding the heat for all of it. There are many factors in why these prices are where they are. I think of the fraudsters more as leeches as the ones driving the prices. 

JFYI - The R&M #1's that I posted a couple hours ago now have more views than auctions (fixed price) that I posted a couple days ago. I have no doubt Ill get a good price on those and they won't be caused by fraud.

Edited September 26, 2017 by kevhtx

[ygogolak]

49 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Yes that auction also looks very shilled. 

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=152705316025&showauto=true

Bidder s***m (92) 100% seller bidding activity.  

Bidder h***o (82) 100% seller bidding activity.

Bidder 0***A  (547) 75% seller bidding activity at time of auction, and the under bidder.

By the way Kev I was originally only referring to the originally linked set of the 1:50 variant "sales" as being a sham, not the entire series.  But maybe I should look at some of the other books selling too.  I do believe there is some interest in the series, but there is clear and present attempted market manipulation going on.  I mean you don't even have to look very long or hard to see it.  My question is, if demand really was all that intense, why all the shilling?  It seems to me the only point of the shilling is to create a perception of an artificially high demand, and then unload inventory on those unsuspecting real fans at bizarrely inflated prices who don't bother (or know how) to take a look under the hood.  

-J.

 

Once again you are using a lack of information to present false conclusions. There have been people on this board, including myself that admit we may only bid on one item, if that, a month.

[Lazyboy]

40 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Yes that auction also looks very shilled. 

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=152705316025&showauto=true

Bidder s***m (92) 100% seller bidding activity.

Bidder h***o (82) 100% seller bidding activity.

Bidder 0***A  (547) 75% seller bidding activity at time of auction, and the under bidder.

 There's this important thing called context that you seem to be missing. 100% seller bidding activity in the 30-Day Summary means nothing when they have only bid on 1 item in those 30 days.

 

[Lazyboy]

40 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Yes that auction also looks very shilled. 

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=152705316025&showauto=true

Bidder s***m (92) 100% seller bidding activity.

Bidder h***o (82) 100% seller bidding activity.

Bidder 0***A  (547) 75% seller bidding activity at time of auction, and the under bidder.

 There's this important thing called context that you seem to be missing. 100% seller bidding activity in the 30-Day Summary means nothing when they have only bid on 1 item in those 30 days.

 

[darkstar]

5 hours ago, ygogolak said:

Definitely shilled, but two that were won were buy people with over 1,000 rep. So they must have thought the price was acceptable.

A high feedback score is not proof that a buyer/seller does not engage in market manipulation. You understand that there are buyer and seller teams on eBay that purchase items from one other to create false sales data in order to sell additional units, yes? 

[IntoAnother]

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

Yes that auction also looks very shilled. 

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=152705316025&showauto=true

Bidder s***m (92) 100% seller bidding activity.  

Bidder h***o (82) 100% seller bidding activity.

Bidder 0***A  (547) 75% seller bidding activity at time of auction, and the under bidder.

By the way Kev I was originally only referring to the originally linked set of the 1:50 variant "sales" as being a sham, not the entire series.  But maybe I should look at some of the other books selling too.  I do believe there is some interest in the series, but there is clear and present attempted market manipulation going on.  I mean you don't even have to look very long or hard to see it.  My question is, if demand really was all that intense, why all the shilling?  It seems to me the only point of the shilling is to create a perception of an artificially high demand, and then unload inventory on those unsuspecting real fans at bizarrely inflated prices who don't bother (or know how) to take a look under the hood.  

-J.

The combination of Rick and Morty cast and creator autographs on a graded R&M book like that are much harder to come across than a 1:50 Roiland variant. So in comparison to other R&M books the closing price isn't a surprise to me at all. 

As a fan I've been paying close attention to the series and it's sales. It's been obvious for quite some time that the 1:50 variant was being blatantly shilled, and more than likely the standard cover #1 as well. Yet that does not necessarily mean that the current prices associated with that book or the series overall are a direct result of that manipulation.  

It is a possibility that the series has just gained that much momentum. I won't say that's definitely the case, but it is something to consider.

I'm sure it looks completely upside down to several people that a series like Rick and Morty is on fire but it is what it is. The fan base is as rabid as any I've ever come across, and imo rightfully so. It really is a great series, both the show and the comic. 

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

 There's this important thing called context that you seem to be missing. 100% seller bidding activity in the 30-Day Summary means nothing when they have only bid on 1 item in those 30 days.

 

 The "context" is that the book is being shilled.  That's not even debatable.  The "context" is that its harder to find a clean auction for this book than a dirty one. Three of five bidders (over half) in the same auction, two of them with identical bidding history, who just so happen to all have 75-100% bidding activity with the same seller, on a book with a history of being shilled, yeah that's not suspicious at all.  

I'm sure I've barely scratched the surface of the rampant corruption going on with this title on ebay (one of the biggest marketplaces for comics). Shall I dig a little deeper ?  

-J.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[ygogolak]

15 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

 The "context" is that the book is being shilled.  That's not even debatable.  The "context" is that its harder to find a clean auction for this book than a dirty one. Three of five bidders (over half) in the same auction, two of them with identical bidding history, who just so happen to all have 75-100% bidding activity with the same seller, on a book with a history of shilling, yeah that's not suspicious at all.  

I'm sure I've barely scratched the surface of the rampant corruption going on with this title on ebay (one of the biggest marketplaces for comics). Shall I dig a little deeper ?  

-J.

It's pretty worthless unless you have some proof from eBay. Like reporting it to them and them admitting fraudulent activity. And with their current move towards opacity and garnering as much loot as then can, I'm sure they will willing hand over that information.

[500Club]

2 hours ago, kevhtx said:

You would have to look at all the hot series and look for it in all of the high priced books then. I am positive that these hot markets attract it. R&M is not the lone series that has attracted fraudulent bids because it got hot. Also, many of these books have gone in BIN or Best Offers anyways. I don't do auctions. I only do fixed price as well.

I agree with you.   There's a large amount of true demand for this book, and there are the usual manipulators attracted to these hot books, that milk all they can from auction manipulation.

[Jaydogrules]

13 minutes ago, 500Club said:

I agree with you.   There's a large amount of true demand for this book, and there are the usual manipulators attracted to these hot books, that milk all they can from auction manipulation.

This is not a trivial issue. Fake auctions create permanent fake data points that future buyers rely on to assess value and what to pay.  Then those real buyers, acting in good faith, attempt to pay what they believe to be FMV for a book, thus creating a real data point.  

This is why auction shilling is a Federal crime with real prison time attached to it.  These buyers are real victims, and they may not even realize it.   No one is saying that Rick and Morty is the "only" title or book where this is happening either, nor is that the point.  It may very well be popular and have a following.  And??  I hear that Batman and Spider-Man are fairly popular too, how many barely two year old, easy to find and always readily available books in their titles are "selling" in shilled auctions for $1000-$2000 raw right now ?  And I'm not just talking one or two funky looking auctions.  I'm talking every single one for the month . 

-J.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Aweandlorder]

These are walking dead prices 

minus the ratings

minus 1st appearance

minus the following

minus pretty much anything that walking dead accomplished as a book that this book hasn't. 

As you can see, one can be very suspicious of such hype through sales, regardless of those being shilled or not 

[500Club]

23 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

36 minutes ago, 500Club said:

I agree with you.   There's a large amount of true demand for this book, and there are the usual manipulators attracted to these hot books, that milk all they can from auction manipulation.

This is not a trivial issue. Fake auctions create permanent fake data points that future buyers rely on to assess value and what to pay.  Then those real buyers, acting in good faith, attempt to pay what they believe to be FMV for a book, thus creating a real data point.  

Don't ascribe any meaning to my post that I didn't write.  Nowhere do I suggest it's a trivial issue.

Hot books always attract the auction manipulators.  It's easier for them to hide out of range prices achieved because the rate of change of prices paid allows for what look like frequent new highs.  These are definitely buyer beware situations.