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Things are so much different now with cover artists. Like when Jack Kirby did all those covers AND interiors for Avengers starting at issue #9. He credited the interiors to Don Heck though. That was nice of him.

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1 hour ago, ygogolak said:

Yes, he did NYX. Dell 'Otto, Hughes, Campbell, Mattina, even Skottie Young have done interiors in their past. Becoming almost strictly a cover artist means you have been recognized as bringing unique talent to comics. With that, I'm sure their prices increase. Although, I guess they could keep drawing interiors for a fraction of the price. That makes sense, right?

Actually he only did the first 4 issues of NYX, he couldn't even finish the whole 6 issues.  Hughes and Campbell have at least held it down on a monthly title before for more than 4 issues.  Of course you can talk about money but when these talented guys don't give us any creativity or storytelling in a medium that is currently dying for that very thing, it is disheartening.   

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1 hour ago, Broke as a Joke said:

Actually he only did the first 4 issues of NYX, he couldn't even finish the whole 6 issues.  Hughes and Campbell have at least held it down on a monthly title before for more than 4 issues.  Of course you can talk about money but when these talented guys don't give us any creativity or storytelling in a medium that is currently dying for that very thing, it is disheartening.   

It could easily be had. The publishers just have to pay for it.

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1 hour ago, Broke as a Joke said:

Actually he only did the first 4 issues of NYX, he couldn't even finish the whole 6 issues.  Hughes and Campbell have at least held it down on a monthly title before for more than 4 issues.  

lol

Campbell has never, in his entire career, turned in even FOUR monthly, consecutive, fully penciled issues of anything, much less more than four. Were you thinking of Gen 13...? The title that was almost quarterly at one point, and featured about half "fill in" artists during Campbell's tenure...? 

Hughes managed to last 11 issues, with 2 more partial issues, before giving up. His longest uninterrupted monthly run...? 5 issues. Justice League America #31-35.

Popular as these guys are, they are not even remotely journeymen. Without taking away from Middleton, those two hardly have him beat in the endurance portion of the contest.

NYX ran 7 issues.

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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I'm not sticking up for JSC and his artistic output at all but I believe he was able to put out 4 or more issues of gen13 (volume 2).  Not that it matters anyway because if Gen13 is your claim to monthly book fame it's irrelevant to the greater good of the hobby.

Currently, do cover artists actually make more from the publisher than the interior artists?  If so, it seems backwards.

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2 hours ago, Broke as a Joke said:

Of course you can talk about money but when these talented guys don't give us any creativity or storytelling in a medium that is currently dying for that very thing, it is disheartening.

Are they actually capable of telling stories or are they just pin-up artists?

3 hours ago, ygogolak said:

Things are so much different now with cover artists. Like when Jack Kirby did all those covers AND interiors for Avengers starting at issue #9. He credited the interiors to Don Heck though. That was nice of him.

Yeah, I guess we can pretend that these guys are the same as Kirby doing additional covers on top of his multiple stories per month. meh

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9 minutes ago, Broke as a Joke said:

I'm not sticking up for JSC and his artistic output at all but I believe he was able to put out 4 or more issues of gen13 (volume 2).

Image was notorious for arriving late, and not changing the cover/indicia to match.  Are you saying that you think JSC put out 4 or more issues of Gen13 on time?

It's actually perfect that Saga is such a big hit for Image even 25 years later since they rarely do more than 9 issues per year on that "monthly" title.

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3 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Yeah, I guess we can pretend that these guys are the same as Kirby doing additional covers on top of his multiple stories per month. meh

I think cover artists are quite aware of the actual demand for their services and will want to branch out on their own label sooner rather than later as they have Kirby to look at for motivation---we all know he was so handsomely rewarded for all of his extensive work and efforts.  Just look at all of the repurposed cover art on all of these regular and high ration variants.  I highly doubt Marvel is paying any additional fees to these artists or to their respective estates if they've passed.   

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5 minutes ago, Mapleleafvann said:

I think cover artists are quite aware of the actual demand for their services and will want to branch out on their own label sooner rather than later as they have Kirby to look at for motivation---we all know he was so handsomely rewarded for all of his extensive work and efforts.  Just look at all of the repurposed cover art on all of these regular and high ration variants.  I highly doubt Marvel is paying any additional fees to these artists or to their respective estates if they've passed.   

There was a panel at a Con I went to in KC time that Asked I Think Either Jason Aaron or Jonathan Hickman, Why not ask Marko Djurdevic to Do a Whole issue , why Just the cover.  Response was Classic ...If you want to wait 3 years between small issues go ahead.  The Rarity of a Jim Lee,and Now a Ryan Stegman vs say a Middleton or a Del'otto is Time

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6 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Image was notorious for arriving late, and not changing the cover/indicia to match.  Are you saying that you think JSC put out 4 or more issues of Gen13 on time?

It's actually perfect that Saga is such a big hit for Image even 25 years later since they rarely do more than 9 issues per year on that "monthly" title.

Well, where are they going to get inventoried stories to fill in for a late issue? Unlike some older publishers, Image doesn't have that option.

7 minutes ago, Mapleleafvann said:

I think cover artists are quite aware of the actual demand for their services and will want to branch out on their own label sooner rather than later as they have Kirby to look at for motivation---we all know he was so handsomely rewarded for all of his extensive work and efforts.  Just look at all of the repurposed cover art on all of these regular and high ration variants.  I highly doubt Marvel is paying any additional fees to these artists or to their respective estates if they've passed.   

Of course they should watch out for themselves and learn from the past. But that has nothing to do with ygogolak's post.

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Contributions by cover artists should not be dismissed either. I have 2 friends at work who loved Dell'Otto covers that now they have gotten into comics because of it. So, great cover artists help the medium. Covers have become works of art and have attracted more artists than it did years ago. So, it's not a surprise that many may only do covers or do mostly covers. 

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3 hours ago, Broke as a Joke said:
5 hours ago, ygogolak said:

Yes, he did NYX. Dell 'Otto, Hughes, Campbell, Mattina, even Skottie Young have done interiors in their past. Becoming almost strictly a cover artist means you have been recognized as bringing unique talent to comics. With that, I'm sure their prices increase. Although, I guess they could keep drawing interiors for a fraction of the price. That makes sense, right?

Actually he only did the first 4 issues of NYX, he couldn't even finish the whole 6 issues.  Hughes and Campbell have at least held it down on a monthly title before for more than 4 issues.  Of course you can talk about money but when these talented guys don't give us any creativity or storytelling in a medium that is currently dying for that very thing, it is disheartening.   

It is disheartening as a fan, but, putting myself in the artists`shoes, I`d happily do covers exclusively for the kind of money JSC and others are getting.

Truthfully, this is a monster of our (collectors as a whole) own creation.

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19 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:
35 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Image was notorious for arriving late, and not changing the cover/indicia to match.  Are you saying that you think JSC put out 4 or more issues of Gen13 on time?

It's actually perfect that Saga is such a big hit for Image even 25 years later since they rarely do more than 9 issues per year on that "monthly" title.

Well, where are they going to get inventoried stories to fill in for a late issue? Unlike some older publishers, Image doesn't have that option.

Right, but at least a portion of the sales numbers for Saga are enhanced by the delay between issues and the "pent up demand" as well as the ability to add the title to your pull list without committing to the cost of 12 issues per year.

Basically, a monthly title which sells 40,000 copies a month is great, 480,000 copies a year.  But a "monthly title" that sells 40,000 copies for 8 or 9 months of the year is actually 25%-33% less "successful" than it would seem by looking at the individual issue numbers.

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52 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Are they actually capable of telling stories or are they just pin-up artists?

Yeah, I guess we can pretend that these guys are the same as Kirby doing additional covers on top of his multiple stories per month. meh

Kirby was a workhorse, no doubt. But depending on who you ask, his stories tended to suffer.

Edited by ygogolak
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46 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Image was notorious for arriving late, and not changing the cover/indicia to match.  Are you saying that you think JSC put out 4 or more issues of Gen13 on time?

It's actually perfect that Saga is such a big hit for Image even 25 years later since they rarely do more than 9 issues per year on that "monthly" title.

(shrug)  Image properties are not setup to produce 12 issues a year. Many take scheduled breaks. You should know this.

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1 minute ago, ygogolak said:
48 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Image was notorious for arriving late, and not changing the cover/indicia to match.  Are you saying that you think JSC put out 4 or more issues of Gen13 on time?

It's actually perfect that Saga is such a big hit for Image even 25 years later since they rarely do more than 9 issues per year on that "monthly" title.

(shrug)  Image properties are not setup to produce 12 issues a year. Many take scheduled breaks. You should know this.

I do, that's why I'm saying that "even 25 years later" it's perfect that a title that is successful but not monthly is coming from the biggest publisher with the longest history of non-monthly books.

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1 minute ago, valiantman said:

I do, that's why I'm saying that "even 25 years later" it's perfect that a title that is successful but not monthly is coming from the biggest publisher with the longest history of non-monthly books.

Yup, quality > quantity.

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Just now, ygogolak said:
2 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I do, that's why I'm saying that "even 25 years later" it's perfect that a title that is successful but not monthly is coming from the biggest publisher with the longest history of non-monthly books.

Yup, quality > quantity.

No argument from me.  Valiant books (2012-current) have been far and away better quality than most competitors' titles that have greater quantity... but they don't have household names for men with the characteristics of spiders and bats.  Saga has been a huge non-big-2 hit, and it deserves all the accolades that it deserves, but not necessarily all the accolades that it gets.  Saga gets credit for "outselling" Marvel, DC, Valiant, etc., but Saga isn't getting penalized for the months of zero sales.  Marvel, DC, Valiant, etc., all outsell Saga each month there is no Saga.  In other words, if I was sagaman, instead of valiantman, I'd be frustrated by the delay between my needed doses.

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46 minutes ago, valiantman said:

No argument from me.  Valiant books (2012-current) have been far and away better quality than most competitors' titles that have greater quantity... but they don't have household names for men with the characteristics of spiders and bats.  Saga has been a huge non-big-2 hit, and it deserves all the accolades that it deserves, but not necessarily all the accolades that it gets.  Saga gets credit for "outselling" Marvel, DC, Valiant, etc., but Saga isn't getting penalized for the months of zero sales.  Marvel, DC, Valiant, etc., all outsell Saga each month there is no Saga.  In other words, if I was sagaman, instead of valiantman, I'd be frustrated by the delay between my needed doses.

Valiant books (2012-current) have been far and away better quality than most competitors' titles that have greater quantity... COMPLETELY AGREE...Though I like many Titles best Overall Quality of Writing, Release, and Artwork Has Been Valiant for me for 5 years.  Image is Hit or Miss and is are many indies. I Compare Valiant now to Vertigo of the 1990s.  

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16 hours ago, kevhtx said:

But, he has already done those sets occasionally. I don't believe there is any evidence though he is going to start doing a ton of these sets like you are saying (and especially for the sites that push these sets the most like you are saying).

If anything, I could see him getting in the artist exclusive game, but I don't count that against any artist at this point. That's not the same thing imo. I think many artists will start following that model soon.

You may not know his personality either, just ask some of the facilitators what its like to catch him. He is flaky (not Alex Ross flaky, but doesn't do conventions often and cancels a lot when he schedules them).

I think you are generalizing these artists and put them all in a bucket that if they get a cover or two that is successful that they are going to instantly start banking on exclusive store sets.

Nowhere did I state he was going to start doing a ton of these sets. I merely stated that these under-the-radar artists all of a sudden getting noticed isn't by accident. 

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