Moderns that are heating up on ebay!
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16 hours ago, bababooey said:

Discouraging people from looking for red flags or scrutinizing clues related to e-bay shenanigans because there's no confession or smoking gun seems like poor advice in general. 

Already agreed there was shilling. Please keep up.

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8 hours ago, kevhtx said:

Sure. Ok. If you think that GoT comic book series is a good comparison then by all means stick to it. How successful is it? Do you have numbers for that one? Like I said, I hadn't heard much about it. I almost guarantee you that its relatively low print and probably not near the popularity (comic series) as the R&M series. That doesn't have to have to do with the TV show either. There are so many factors involved in that (Oni Press marketing, leg work of those employees at cons, social media, word of mouth and so on). Maybe that GoT series will catch on.  Remember R&M started in 2015 and that GoT JUST started this year. So, its hard to compare the two right now. 

As for R&M, I just made a $1000+ sale, so I guess I should tell them that it was based on fraud though (It took half a day to sell). 

The original Game of Thrones volume started in 2011. Clash of Kings started this year. Print runs on the first series started at 20k and finished around 6k for the final issues. So its an older series, with a comparable and eventual lesser print run than R&M, with incentive variants and store exclusives for the first issue, that has nowhere near the prices on the secondary market. So either the GoT books are tremendously undervalued or a property's fan base from another medium doesn't necessarily translate into a demand for comics. But yes, continue to tell me that R&M's price growth is due to an organic demand from its legions of fans, which somehow currently translates into a series that sells all of 10k copies per month. 

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32 minutes ago, thpike said:

Lots of NYCC Exclusives news popping up...wonder which ones will be heating up... :)

Yeah, Im looking forward to this too. Looking at Dark Night Metal, Realm and a few others for myself.

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12 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Sure, but there has to be middle ground between that and claiming every slight hint that something might be wrong must be shill bidding.

More so it seems to be, "I don't like this book, so it's shilled". "I do like this book, so it's not shilled."

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There is definitely shilling... again, the comic secondary market is full of crooks and shysters. We all agree that there are artificial pressures on pricing. However - and keep in mind I've argued for a long time, and continue to argue, that third party verification of sales is pivotal in these instances - these issues are rarely black and white. Looking at this data is a bit look trying to read tea leaves - I think a lot of the time you can find an argument for whatever your point is.

 

I just advise people not to pay hundreds and thousands of dollars for the 'book of the month'... how do you know when it isn't the book of the month? When it is still $1000 a year later. Of course, human nature being what it is, everyone is afraid of 'missing out' on the way up.

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14 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

Youre a smart guy posting ebay auctions from 2015 trying to prove a point about 2016. :facepalm:

It was released April 2015 so those prices at that time are not surprising and actually show a slow rise ($10/book by that last auction you show).

If u actually pay attention to what I was writing you'd save time arguing with yourself

R&M was a dollar in book the first year - that's 2015

it has spiked since its appearance on comicbookmen 

YOUR GPA CHART CAPTURE PROVE THAT

if u don't know that to be a FACT you're simply a guy trying to make a buck and convincing others with your inane excuses that this book had an organic growth based on nothing but that

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6 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

I've seen this happen a lot with slabs - people don't bother taking a new pic or updating a description.

I see it happen quite a bit as well. The Four Color Grails variant does have 44 9.8's on the census so I imagine we'll be seeing quite a few more identical sales. 

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4 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

If u actually pay attention to what I was writing you'd save time arguing with yourself59cbc6b57d0ce_ScreenShot2017-09-27at10_21_47AM.thumb.png.3fc59f2d340b484c496fc756c70868ad.png

 

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If it makes anyone feel better -

I BELIEVE THAT R&M HAS BECOME A MAJOR MODERN KEY

if only for the simple fact that there is a hidden force behind it pushing the prices up for almost a year now. 

They have succeeded 

 

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57 minutes ago, IntoAnother said:

I'm pretty sure the seller of the multiple Four Color Grails slabs is just not updating his listings from one to the next, that's all. I do know that he did indeed have several copies at one time, and possibly several more. 

I know that that "can" happen.  Not so sure that did happen here though.  I suppose it's just bad luck that all of the major tell-tale signs of blatant and rampant market manipulation all seem to be conspiring at once to make this series look bad.  Even the Ryan variant looks to have had the same two 9.6 copies sell four times in three months earlier this year as well.  If it was just one thing (a couple of duplicate listings on GPA) okay that can often be explained.  If it's two things (multiple duplicate listings on GPA), that might be a coincidence.  If it's three things (multiple books with multiple duplicate listings on GPA), that is suspicious.   If it's four things (a couple of shilled auctions of raw copies on ebay), that is scandalous.  If it's  five things  (every auction of every raw copy coordinated and shilled by the same group of people in a 30 day period)  then that is not only market manipulation, but wire fraud, and possibly a RICO violation.  

-J.

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Ok guys, seriously, lets just move on to something else...no one is going to agree with each other on this

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Just now, kevhtx said:

Ok guys, seriously, lets just move on to something else...no one is going to agree with each other on this

^^

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5 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

 

R&M sales have been steadily climbing in the past few months (year?) 

the book was a 10$ book the first year or so with no market awareness at all

the first spike I believe happened around the time it was mentioned on the show comic book men

feel free to correct me if I'm a little off chronologically 

 

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4 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

Ok guys, seriously, lets just move on to something else...no one is going to agree with each other on this

Im not doing this to "agree" with you or not.

This is just to document the findings I discovered upon researching this book

It would help just in case others question the same behavior of this book as suspicious

 

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7 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

If it makes anyone feel better -

I BELIEVE THAT R&M HAS BECOME A MAJOR MODERN KEY

if only for the simple fact that there is a hidden force behind it pushing the prices up for almost a year now. 

They have succeeded 

 

Which is why shilling, very unfortunately, works, and why people keep trying it.

Fake auctions with fake prices on a TV property with a cult following created a buzz in the comic book community, even though the series itself does not sell particularly well. Then bandwagon picked up some steam which led to some legitimate sales that enshrined the earlier fake ones.  I don't think there is a single legitimate auction of any issue of this book on eBay that has closed for over $500.  Sure you have a couple convenient "buy-it-now's" on there but those are easier to fake than auctions.   At some point though there will have to be enough real buyers to sustain these artificially inflated prices.  That's when we'll find out how popular this property really is, or whether it was simply propped up by pump and dumpers.

-J.

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17 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

If it makes anyone feel better -

I BELIEVE THAT R&M HAS BECOME A MAJOR MODERN KEY

if only for the simple fact that there is a hidden force behind it pushing the prices up for almost a year now. 

They have succeeded 

 

As if this couldn't dry up overnight or next week or next month.

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1 minute ago, Jaydogrules said:

Which is why shilling, very unfortunately, works, and why people keep trying it.

Fake auctions with fake prices on a TV property with a cult following created a buzz in the comic book community, even though the series itself does not sell particularly well. Then bandwagon picked up some steam which led to some legitimate sales that enshrined the earlier fake ones.  I don't think there is a single legitimate auction of any issue of this book on eBay that has closed for over $500.  Sure you have a couple convenient "buy-it-now's" on there but those are easier to fake than auctions.   At some point though there will have to be enough real buyers to sustain these artificially inflated prices.  That's when we'll find out how popular this property really is, or whether it was simply propped up by pump and dumpers.

-J.

That is exactly what I am talking about.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

... I don't think there is a single legitimate auction of any issue of this book on eBay that has closed for over $500.  Sure you have a couple convenient "buy-it-now's" on there but those are easier to fake than auctions....

-J.

I just sold one last night for over $1000. What are you trying to imply?? Ive sold multiple in the $150-300 range. They were honest sales to REAL customers. Nothing FAKE or FRAUD about them. And Im selling some others now with offers on them now.

Edited by kevhtx

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2 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

I know that that "can" happen.  Not so sure that did happen here though.  I suppose it's just bad luck that all of the major tell-tale signs of blatant and rampant market manipulation all seem to be conspiring at once to make this series look bad.  Even the Ryan variant looks to have had the same two 9.6 copies sell four times in three months earlier this year as well.  If it was just one thing (a couple of duplicate listings on GPA) okay that can often be explained.  If it's two things (multiple duplicate listings on GPA), that might be a coincidence.  If it's three things (multiple books with multiple duplicate listings on GPA), that is suspicious.   If it's four things (a couple of shilled auctions of raw copies on ebay), that is scandalous.  If it's  five things  (every auction of every raw copy coordinated and shilled by the same group of people in a 30 day period)  then that is not only market manipulation, but wire fraud, and possibly a RICO violation.  

-J.

I'm not familiar with the identical Ryan variants that sold. 

I was only referring to the identical Four Color Grails slab sales by seller wwe_dvds on eBay. They are legit, he's just not updating the listings.

I don't know of any reason, nor have I seen any reason to believe he's played any part in market manipulation with his copies.

Did I miss something? 

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1 minute ago, SquareChaos said:

As if this couldn't dry up overnight or next week or next month.

It very possibly could. But this book has been "hyped", lets use this word so no one gets offended, for almost a year now. What Jaydog was saying is true in that regard.

This is a popular show and it needed that big push to bring comic collectors into the picture who would further make it a sought after collectible enhancing the brand and creating much much more awareness for the property 

This could have happened with any book in the past and it may have

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