Moderns that are heating up on ebay!
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1 hour ago, musicmeta said:

Well, I liked reading the early Valiants. The pre-unity issues for sure.  I really liked X-O Manowar and Solar.  Only a few are worth anything but I sure enjoyed reading most of them.

I did, too. Harbinger was brilliant, and Solar: Alpha & Omega was outstanding, with a very clever twist at the end.

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1 hour ago, I like pie said:

A bit off topic but has anyone noticed the ebay sellers from Hong Kong pre selling books for 90% off retail?

those are scams

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3 minutes ago, Second Blight said:

those are scams

I know but it's so obvious and people still buy them. Is this new or an on and off thing?

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2 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

:whistle: :grin:

-J.

It's cool. I don't even follow Moderns so I shouldn't be participating here anyway. As Paperheart pointed out, there are no CR/OW Moderns !

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11 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

It's cool. I don't even follow Moderns so I shouldn't be participating here anyway. As Paperheart pointed out, there are no CR/OW Moderns !

Um.

Well.

There are...

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1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Um.

Well.

There are...

Really ? If so, I'm assuming it would be newspaper stock and stored in a smoker's environment. I'd be curious to see a graded copy with CR/OW.

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Just now, Bomber-Bob said:

Really ? If so, I'm assuming it would be newspaper stock and stored in a smoker's environment. I'd be curious to see a graded copy with CR/OW.

Heat works well...especially dry heat...like, you know...an attic...in Arizona...

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32 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Heat works well...especially dry heat...like, you know...an attic...in Arizona...

This has been discussed before for Vintage books and usually CR/OW precludes a book from getting a 9.8. Not impossible, I've seen a few, but not often. DId you ever see a Modern get a CR/OW, slabbed, and if so what was the grade ?

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You can still get a 9.8 with CR/OW pages. If it's a really nice book, but the interior pages just turned, sure, especially if the cover is high quality, but the interior pages are not.

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Using the search function I found the post where I talked about SDCC and what I got AND showed a Diamond Variant sale:

 

Here are the books I got TWO of each (my son was with me and he's on my account)

1:300 Superman Unchained #1 Jim Lee Sketch Variant

1:100 Sandman Overture #1 Sketch Variant

1:200 Sandman Overture #1 Sketch Variant

1:300 Fantastic Four Alex Ross Sketch Variant

1:50 Venom #1 Sketch Variant

+ various other publisher variants.

 

 

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Some of you newbies or people who've been away, don't realize this discussion has been going on for a while. Jay has no proof of anything he's talking about, while we've shown him consistent proof over the years. He went from 'Marvel prints exactly to the 1:100' to 'They round off to the nearest case pack' to 'The extras they have are very small and they only have a sale every few years' to 'Its only on #1 that it happens'.... keeps getting proven wrong on each of these... keeps changing his tune.

Here you can read about a 1:100 variant being unsoundly hyped by jay and many of us showing him the error in his reasoning. Near the end of it he finally understands the point I’m making.

 

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Here you can read where we school jaydog about the Marvel variant sales and then show him actual proof. And then he moves the goal posts. And then I still kick it through and school him again. 

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/230751-moderns-that-are-heating-up-on-ebay/?page=1899

 

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Have any of you ever talked to someone that works at a printing company that does Marvel and / or DC? I think you might be surprised what you learn.

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38 minutes ago, spreads said:

This stuff is all great Chuck, so to summarize we should all put jaydog on ignore?

That's up to whoever considers it. I find jaydog far too entertaining to ignore his misguided views that I try to correct him on and HAVE. He's changed many of views over the years based upon what proof I've thrown at him. 

Now silly people who make up stuff like, "Have any of you ever talked to someone that works at a printing company that does Marvel and / or DC? I think you might be surprised what you learn." Those people I have on ignore.

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Some still make the argument that you can take the Comichron sales 'estimate' and divide it by 50 on a 1:50 (or 25 on a 1:25, etc.), round it up to the case pack and get an estimate on how many copies were printed. Here's another reason this fails. (I've drastically reduced numbers to make it easier to understand)

So 1000 'a' copies ordered, divided by 50 is 20 'z' copies, right? Seems reasonable.

But that's not how the orders come in.

MileHighComics - 200 'a' copies - they get 4 'z' copies

Big Apple Comics - 200 'a' copies - they get 4 'z' copies

Larry's Comics - 100 'a' copies - they get 2 'z' copies

7 shops order 35 'a' copies - no variants

21 shops order 12 'a' copies - no variants

That's 997 copies ordered - only 10 variants....

 

1000 is the sales estimate in Comichron, but the number of variants is HALF of what the 'estimate' would be based upon jaydogs 'theory'

 

So... to recap:

1. You start off with, you have no idea the actual print run

2. You have no idea how the incentive is broken down by the number of people who actually buy it (see above).

3. Marvel/DC are under NO obligation to print TO that specific run. They can print as many as they choose for promotion, give away, retailer promo, etc.

4. We've seen time and again (twice a year) that they have to have HUGE variant cover sell offs. So obviously there IS more than we think of most of these books.

5. AND give aways to retailers at SDCC, Retailer Summits, because they screw up orders, special deals, PLENTY of those variants available

It's pretty basic.

Edited by Chuck Gower

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2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Using the search function I found the post where I talked about SDCC and what I got AND showed a Diamond Variant sale:

 

Here are the books I got TWO of each (my son was with me and he's on my account)

1:300 Superman Unchained #1 Jim Lee Sketch Variant

1:100 Sandman Overture #1 Sketch Variant

1:200 Sandman Overture #1 Sketch Variant

1:300 Fantastic Four Alex Ross Sketch Variant

1:50 Venom #1 Sketch Variant

+ various other publisher variants.

 

 

Relevant Quote from Chuck in that thread:

"Marvel is much more secretive, but have somewhat tightened up their print runs for most variants, especially after the massive overstock that had to be sold off in 2013.

Or so it seemed...

 

They recently have come under criticism for Star Wars Variants and Action Figure Variants that have suddenly appeared directly from them, much after the fact. This mysterious additional glut of product has led to them to take a hard line PR stance that variants are printed to order and rounded up to the case pack size "

Agreed then, agreed now. (thumbsu

-J.

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55 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Some still make the argument that you can take the Comichron sales 'estimate' and divide it by 50 on a 1:50 (or 25 on a 1:25, etc.), round it up to the case pack and get an estimate on how many copies were printed. Here's another reason this fails. (I've drastically reduced numbers to make it easier to understand)

So 1000 'a' copies ordered, divided by 50 is 20 'z' copies, right? Seems reasonable.

But that's not how the orders come in.

MileHighComics - 200 'a' copies - they get 4 'z' copies

Big Apple Comics - 200 'a' copies - they get 4 'z' copies

Larry's Comics - 100 'a' copies - they get 2 'z' copies

7 shops order 35 'a' copies - no variants

21 shops order 12 'a' copies - no variants

That's 997 copies ordered - only 10 variants....

 

1000 is the sales estimate in Comichron, but the number of variants is HALF of what the 'estimate' would be based upon jaydogs 'theory'

 

So... to recap:

1. You start off with, you have no idea the actual print run

2. You have no idea how the incentive is broken down by the number of people who actually buy it (see above).

3. Marvel/DC are under NO obligation to print TO that specific run. They can print as many as they choose for promotion, give away, retailer promo, etc.

4. We've seen time and again (twice a year) that they have to have HUGE variant cover sell offs. So obviously there IS more than we think of most of these books.

5. AND give aways to retailers at SDCC, Retailer Summits, because they screw up orders, special deals, PLENTY of those variants available

It's pretty basic.

Actually that makes a point against yours considering the Diamond "dump". If they printed to order +10% for damages there would be no such dump or giveaways.

Edited by ygogolak

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2 hours ago, spreads said:

This stuff is all great Chuck, so to summarize we should all put jaydog on ignore?

Depends. 99% of the time, I ignore, but as you can see, he jumped right into this latest fray unsolicited, derogatory comments and all, which had a clear negative influence on Nico (as these comments are designed to do.)

It's important that misinformation is challenged, or it gets repeated over and over again, and everyone believes it. 

Great example: how many people still think Secret Wars #8 is the first appearance of the black costume? Or, how many people looked for the "advance copy" of Harbinger #0? Or, how many people think Jon McClure "discovered" the 30 and 35 cent Marvel price variants in 1998, despite them appearing, to one extent or the other, in the OPG since about 1979?

The point, as I mentioned earlier, isn't to "be right" and make others "be wrong." That's just the accusation of the offended, who either can't handle being challenged, or are pushing an agenda, so they devolve the discussion into the personal, to pivot away from the point...which, while surely entertaining for some, has no place here or anywhere, really. Whenever and wherever you see someone say "prove you've admitted where you were wrong!"...you know that person is offended and pushing an agenda, and not after the truth.

The point is to have everyone be correct, so that people can make wise, judicious, and informed decisions about what they buy and collect. 

I don't want Jaydogrules...or anyone...marginalized. I would much prefer he join the community of collectors who know what they're talking about, and are honest about where they're coming from.

Edited by RockMyAmadeus

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