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New to OA Collecting, Advice, tips?
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1,154 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, BDWatson said:

Hello everyone,

I think I’m in the right place because I have OA questions and I’m a complete newbie about it outside of a few blank cover sketches I’ve acquired at conventions. 

I’ve been collecting comics for 9 years now (as an adult, I also owned comics as a child but wouldn’t consider that kid a “collector”), and after having a couple of blank cover sketches done, I found that I loved having sketches that were mine. I think I was amazed by how my poorly articulated requests were converted into impressive works of art.

Now that the seal has been broken, I find myself interested in acquiring pages and jam pieces to add to my collection. As a big fan of going to conventions and meeting and chatting with the creators, I have some questions about OA at cons.

1. What do you use to carry your purchases and works-in-progress around at conventions? I saw that Itoyas are the most common recommendation for storing art, but are they equally viable for transport around a show floor or should look into something more secure, if there is anything like that at all?

Itoyas are the most commonly used portfolio and should suffice at a con (unless you are buying something larger than the standard 11x17 size). I would suggest getting a bag to carry the portfolio around in. There are a few thread started on this topic. 

2. If I’m expecting to meet an artist I’m a fan of at an upcoming show, is it alright to reach out to them or their rep about bringing a certain piece to the show with them? I know we often have a “never hurts to ask” attitude in the world of comic collecting, but I’d like to build relationships with these people over time and not complicate that by overstepping boundaries during our first interaction.

Absolutely. I have done this a lot. I also coordinate delivery of a commission at a show if the timeline aligns with the show. It won't always work out but, as you mention, it never hurts to ask. If it can be arranged, it saves packing/shipping and meeting the artist when they hand you your piece is always fun IMO

3. This may be the wrong spot on the boards, but, specifically for jam pieces, is there a roughly accurate way to determine what an artist will charge for a jam piece contribution? I see quite a bit of commission information on websites and reps’ websites, but seeing as how a jam requires a portion of an 11x17 page and not the entire thing, I’m curious what I should expect price-wise as I embark on my first piece.

This one is tough as some artists just have a flat rate for cons and don't specialize for jams. Most will give you a price they think is fair by looking at your piece. Jams vary in size, complexity, and so it is hard to give a "jam rate" as they tend to be unique requests. I have done a couple and the rates have varied quite a bit for similarly sized drawings. Again, no harm in reaching out in advance to ask this type of question. 

Welcome to the hobby! 

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@JadeGiant's advice is solid.

If you are interested in using a sketchbook, here are some tips.

Spoiler

Rule #1 - Label your book with your contact information and theme, if any.

For example, tape a business card on it with your mobile number and name. Do something to make it clear that it's yours and how to find you. Most people are honest and will try to get in touch if you give them a chance. I put a label on the front cover and on the inside.

Rule #2 - Paper matters 
Each type of drawing medium does better on certain types of paper.  At a con, you normally encounter pencil, pen&ink, and marker so look at the sketchbooks and choose one that matches your anticipated drawing medium. Remember, paper weight matters and heavier paper has less bleed through if the artist uses markers or watercolor.
 
Canson has a nice summary sheet in some of their sketch books. Here are two of them:
 
image.png.cda3d00de8248c48ff0ae9fa77996194.png 
 
Here’s another from a different Canson sketchbook.
 
image.png.b9a15293a95b19399ccaf49e363fb738.png
Based on this chart, I probably should have bought a book with Illustration Bristol or Mi-Teintest Pastel paper in it.
 
Here’s one from a Strathmore sketchbook. Sadly, they don’t give a comparison like Canson does across their selection of sketchbooks. Each sketchbook has a summary like this one.
image.png.9c36f5c0d7451049262903b6cb72c2da.png
 
 
Rule 3 - Binding matters.
I've been happy with my Canson Mix Media wirebound books. Why? Because they lie flat for the artist. The square bound ones do not. My gripe though is most of the Canson sketchbooks have thin covers and I prefer a thick one.
 
I found found a Strathmore spiral bound one, their Visual Journal series, for Mixed Media that has a nice hard cover.
 
 
These points are covered above, but just to repeat.
  • Label your sketchbook with your name, your contact information, and your theme, if any.
  • Heavier paper is generally better (less bleed through)
  • Carry a sheet of thick paper to use as a backer for the sheet that they draw on.
  • Use a wirebound book because the pages lie flat
  • There's a lot to be said for hard covers

 

Rule 4 - Separation matters
Bring a smooth piece of thick paper to separate the page being drawn from those around it. Ink and color can bleed. At the minimum, it ruins a page in your book at the worst several.
 
 
Rule 5 - Reference matters
Artists dont necessarily know the character you want or the costume or the pose or the setting. Bring reference. Printed reference is best. Though a list of links or images that you can email works, too.
 
Remember, reference for the pose does not have to be for the character you want. If you like a particular Batman on Gargoyle pose, but you want it to feature Nightwing, dont waste time searching for that, bring the Batman one. The artist can adapt once (s)he knows what you want.
 
Rule 6 - Starting Strong matters
Pick the best artist and idea that you can afford and start with that. Artists are competitive so a strong start is a challenge to the subsequent artists.
 
Rule 7 - Provenance matters
Record the artist, the art and the commissioner in the sketchbook.
  1. When you pickup the art, record the artist's name, location and date on the bottom of the page that was drawn on and take a picture of the art, the artist, and, optionally, the commissioner.
  2. When you get home, do this:
    1. Go to an art supply store and buy archival see-thru Mounting Corners (see below)
    2. Print the photos as 4x6 at Walgreen's or wherever (it's really cheap)
    3. When you have your picture, mount the corners on the back of the previous page and insert the photo (see example below)

If you should ever want to sell the page, remove the picture from its back and replace it with the picture from the back of the previous page and you have provenance. If you never sell, you have a great memory book. Try it, you'll like it.

image.png.de49c57e56deafd7b76584e282f4dbd5.png

image.png.f2759c88fb2f78d9d949f456d47aa917.png

 

 

Finally, and this is really important, remember to label your book with your name and phone number! (I may have mentioned this before)

The most important tip is to label your items (bag, portfolio, sketchbook) with your name and phone number. Most people are honest and will return lost items. 

Also, I tend to use a portfolio on the plane (13x19 usually), but I use 11" X 17" rigid vinyl print protectors at the show to minimize weight which can be important. Both should be labeled. You could also throw a business card in the print protector for good measure. (Yes, I have lost a page due to lack of such labels.)

BTW, you should do the same with your phone. Something like "If found, please page Alex Johnson or call Kathy Johnson at +1.xxx.xxx.xxxx." Yes, I use full international number. Kathy's usually with me at a show, but even if not, she knows artist friends at the show that would hold it for me. 

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2 hours ago, BDWatson said:

Hello everyone,

I think I’m in the right place because I have OA questions and I’m a complete newbie about it outside of a few blank cover sketches I’ve acquired at conventions. 

I’ve been collecting comics for 9 years now (as an adult, I also owned comics as a child but wouldn’t consider that kid a “collector”), and after having a couple of blank cover sketches done, I found that I loved having sketches that were mine. I think I was amazed by how my poorly articulated requests were converted into impressive works of art.

Now that the seal has been broken, I find myself interested in acquiring pages and jam pieces to add to my collection. As a big fan of going to conventions and meeting and chatting with the creators, I have some questions about OA at cons.

1. What do you use to carry your purchases and works-in-progress around at conventions? I saw that Itoyas are the most common recommendation for storing art, but are they equally viable for transport around a show floor or should look into something more secure, if there is anything like that at all?

2. If I’m expecting to meet an artist I’m a fan of at an upcoming show, is it alright to reach out to them or their rep about bringing a certain piece to the show with them? I know we often have a “never hurts to ask” attitude in the world of comic collecting, but I’d like to build relationships with these people over time and not complicate that by overstepping boundaries during our first interaction.

3. This may be the wrong spot on the boards, but, specifically for jam pieces, is there a roughly accurate way to determine what an artist will charge for a jam piece contribution? I see quite a bit of commission information on websites and reps’ websites, but seeing as how a jam requires a portion of an 11x17 page and not the entire thing, I’m curious what I should expect price-wise as I embark on my first piece.

Welcome to the Boards, where you will meet people (not me), who know a tremendous amount about this hobby, it’s artists, pricing, and  all sorts of insider information. All around good people, too—no trolls here.

To answer some of your questions:

1. I usually carry around an art portfolio bag with backpack straps on it as well as a side handle. Over the course of a day, carrying by hand is tiring, so the back straps help. In the bag, I also include several top-loaders of different sizes to hold things I may buy, copies of old comics containing image samples for artists to use, in case I want a commission, and sometimes, art pads and drawing tools in case I go to a convention and run into an artist who was unprepared to do a commission but changed his/her mind during the course of the day (the tools are overkill —but that’s my preference based on some experiences).

2. Absolutely let them know. That’s particularly the case with artists who may have lots of things they have done, but don’t know what to bring. They will be on the lookout for other stuff they have buried (don’t bother if you know Walt Simonson). You can also get commissions done in advance and brought to the show.

3. Can’t help you on Jam pieces. I like full shots, and prefer to have fewer pieces which are more costly. 
 
One other thing: buy carefully. Get things that you like, and don’t overspend because some says a page is a great piece or a good deal, and buy a lot of things that are cheap just for the sake of volume.

Edited by Rick2you2
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1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

Welcome to the Boards, where you will meet people (not me), who know a tremendous amount about this hobby, it’s artists, pricing, and  all sorts of insider information. All around good people, too—no trolls here.

To answer some of your questions:

1. I usually carry around an art portfolio bag with backpack straps on it as well as a side handle. Over the course of a day, carrying by hand is tiring, so the back straps help. In the bag, I also include several top-loaders of different sizes to hold things I may buy, copies of old comics containing image samples for artists to use, in case I want a commission, and sometimes, art pads and drawing tools in case I go to a convention and run into an artist who was unprepared to do a commission but changed his/her mind during the course of the day (the tools are overkill —but that’s my preference based on some experiences).

2. Absolutely let them know. That’s particularly the case with artists who may have lots of things they have done, but don’t know what to bring. They will be on the lookout for other stuff they have buried (don’t bother if you know Walt Simonson). You can also get commissions done in advance and brought to the show.

3. Can’t help you on Jam pieces. I like full shots, and prefer to have fewer pieces which are more costly. 
 
One other thing: buy carefully. Get things that you like, and don’t overspend because some says a page is a great piece or a good deal, and buy a lot of things that are cheap just for the sake of volume.

Great advice, I have my eye on some pieces already but I’m dealing with the internal struggle of “one really nice piece vs 2-3 not as nice but still nice pieces,” which is actually an issue I had when I first started collecting comics.

It’s great to hear that reaching out about particular pieces is encouraged. Thank you for taking the time to respond!

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The last line of my advice on pricing comic art says, 

Quote

One last comment, if you are looking to buy or sell, spend the time to learn the market. That might take 6 months, but it's worth the time.

If that topic interests you, here's the write-up. For those that have seen it before, it has been updated to address both buyers (original scope) and sellers.

Spoiler

Whether you are pricing to sell or buy, you might want to explore the following resources

  • The website Comic Art Tracker can help you find art and look at current asking prices for similar pieces.
  • The OA auction archive at Heritage Auctions – This archive presents the results from all of their OA auctions.. Once you sign-up and get an id, you can search for pieces by your artist and see what they have sold for.
  • The CAF Market Data - More auction results (more than 1,000,000) are available if you join the Comic Art Fans site, pay for Market Data access, and access eBay and other auction sites as well as Heritage.
  • The Comic Art Database. It contains transaction records entered by the owners of Comic OA.
  • Dealer sites. Dealers, generally, post their art with fixed prices though there are exceptions. There is a list of dealers on CGC OA board and the Dragonberry site has a list as well. The CAF site will search the inventories of several dealers for you. [Of course, Comic Art Tracker is better.]
  • Blouin Art Info which tracks sales at major art auctions. It can turn up some Comic OA as well. Look for the “Art Prices” item on the top right of the screen
  • Jerry Weist's Comic Art Price Guide - Heritage published a third edition of it. In my opinion, it's a good history book and might be useful for comparison work, but it was out of date a year before it was printed.
  • A topic  on the CGC OA boards, A-level panel page valuations by artist/run - thoughts/additions/changes?, holds a discussion that relates to your question. It provides some "generally agreed upon" ranges for popular runs by popular artists on popular characters.
  • The Biggest OA Prices thread tracked some of the largest sales in the OA space. While that particular thread has stopped; it's probably worth reading for the discussions. Meanwhile , the information is still being updated - just with a different mechanism.
  • Dealer quotations are valuable. To get one, you approach a dealer with the art (in person) or image (by email) and ask what they would offer for it. If they make an offer, remember that they need significant margin especially if they feel that the piece will not sell immediately. You might double their offer to reach a retail price. Of course, this is a very hard to manage approach. An excellent list of dealers can be found on Comic Art Tracker here. Check a few and use those that seem to carry art like you are trying to sell - some dealers do specialize.
If you are pricing to sell, there are a couple of addition resource types:
You can get a list of Auction Houses on the ComicArtTracker site here and dealers here. ComicArtTracker has the most comprehensive list on the internet.
 
Another source of original art valuation opinions would be to ask on Facebook pages and the CGC Marketplace. However, prepare for odd/funny answers, unsolicited offers, and the usual social media snark. That said, here are some links from Facebook:
I do not claim that this is either exhaustive or useful.
 
 
Even with the information above, new buyers and sellers often find that OA is too hard to price. I agree that it is difficult. However, I think that there is a valid reason. Each piece is unique. Uniqueness make art sales generally and OA specifically non-linear. Examples of how piece can differ in ways that impact pricing include:
  • Content: Consecutive pages could and do sell for radically different amounts based on their content. 
  • Page Layout: In general, you might say:

 Covers > 1st Page Splash > Other Splash > 1/2 splash > panel page

However, that's not always true either. The right panel page can be much more compelling than a bland splash.

  • Penciler vs. character: There are "A-list" artists, but not all of their books/characters have the same value. Kirby FF pages generally go for more than JIM/Thor pages which go for more than Cap pages (2nd run) which go for more than ...
  • Pencilers/inkers combinations - Kirby/Sinnott FF pages rank above Kirby and anyone else on FF, but a Kirby/InkerX FF page might be more or less than a Kirby/Stone Thor page. Hard to tell.
  • Production Technique:
    • Classic - pencils, letters, and inks all on the same page
    • Recent - pencils and inks on the same page - no lettering
    • Modern - pencils and inks on different pages - no lettering
In general, Classic > Recent > Modern
 
When looking at a "split" Modern page, consider what it might be worth if done in Recent style and then split the cost with 60% of the "Modern-style" page going for the pencils and 40% going for the blue-line inks. Why? The penciller tells the story and that's the page (s)he handled. The inked page has the advantage of being the published page, but even so most prefer the pencil page.
 

Finally, you should join the comic book OA community. The main points of Internet contact are:

The main points of physical contact are probably:

  • Dedicated Comic Art Shows
    • Comic Art Con (Spring/Fall) - A twice yearly show originally in northern NJ, but moving to NYC. The domain seems to have lapsed, but the show owner has a page for it here.
    • NYC Comic Art Expo - Annual spring show, nothing but art people (dealers, individual sellers, and buyers) and a few local artists. Held at the Penn Hotel opposite Penn Station
    • Torpedo Comics Collectors Convention (née LA Comic Art Show) - Annual art show one week before SDCC to leverage the dealer’s visit to the west coast
  • Conventions with High Dealer Attendance
  • Shows with a comic artist focus
    • Heroes Comic Con - Not a lot of comic art dealers, but a huge number of artists who generally will draw and have portfolios to sell
    • Baltimore Comic Con - Similar to HeroesCon.

One last comment, if you are looking to buy or sell, spend the time to learn the market. That might take 6 months, but it's worth the time.

 

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1 hour ago, malvin said:

My opinion is that it does not impact value 

Malvin

Thanks Malvin, I was looking at a piece and it’s missing a notation and a dialogue box.

At first I was just going to pass on it, but then I got to thinking, they’re not there, it is what it is.

The Art is still gorgeous, can’t wait to share when it gets here :whee:

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24 minutes ago, Hado said:

Thanks Malvin, I was looking at a piece and it’s missing a notation and a dialogue box.

At first I was just going to pass on it, but then I got to thinking, they’re not there, it is what it is.

The Art is still gorgeous, can’t wait to share when it gets here :whee:

Good move! I agree, it's all about the art!

If it has stats, it's prolly 15-20 years old and it's inevitable that some stats will fall off.

They can be restored, but in 99% of cases that's prolly unnecessary.

All that said, presentation could affect value like if there is a dark glue stain - but I doubt much. Maybe scare away people who aren't really interested.

If people like the art they will want it. I would go for it if the art's good. 

 

Edited by Twanj
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7 hours ago, Hado said:

Thanks Malvin, I was looking at a piece and it’s missing a notation and a dialogue box.

At first I was just going to pass on it, but then I got to thinking, they’re not there, it is what it is.

The Art is still gorgeous, can’t wait to share when it gets here :whee:

I'm the last person with an informed opinion about how it affects the valuation, but I was actually pleased that this page I got from X-Men #151 was missing one caption and one dialogue balloon at the bottom of the page since it revealed more art, including a hidden birdbath in the lower left panel.

IavexYn.jpg

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19 hours ago, Hado said:

Hey guys, long time.

Some quick questions:

Do missing stats bother you, Is that a non starter, does it lower the value?

thanks guys

I know this sounds contradictory, but from my perspective, it does make the piece less desirable even though it does not lower value.  So, the absence of a cover logo is something I would try to replicate and add.

If the missing portion was dialog covering art, I probably wouldn't object to its absence.

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Apologies if this has been asked before but are there portfolios/display folders at nicely fit 11.5x17 art pages? Frustrated that I now have a couple pieces on 11.5x17 board in my small collection that don't fit in my 11x17 Itoya. Is the only solution to move up to 13x19 or 14x17? 

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7 hours ago, Noob19 said:

Apologies if this has been asked before but are there portfolios/display folders at nicely fit 11.5x17 art pages? Frustrated that I now have a couple pieces on 11.5x17 board in my small collection that don't fit in my 11x17 Itoya. Is the only solution to move up to 13x19 or 14x17? 

Those nice little Itoya’s are not archive quality storage no matter what the size. I have been moving my pieces into top loaders, and then placing the top loaders into larger Itoya’s. The smaller ones go into the 11 x 17 Itoya’s, in small top loaders, along with cheaper pieces (I also do need to buy some more folios and top loaders). 

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Here's an interview I did about my collection, how I got into the hobby, things I have learned here and dealers I won't buy from and why (I talk extensively about Coolines and the Romitaman Shill controversy (I basically just read his words that he wrote on here) from 2016). I hope people find it helpful. I do mistakenly call Gary Land Greg Land once but I correct myself later. I also give shout outs to Albert Moy, Will Gabri-El and Anthony Snyder.

https://www.lastmovieoutpost.com/outpost-frequencies-episode-10-collecting-comic-art/

 

 

 

Edited by kbmcvay
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On 7/28/2020 at 9:28 AM, kbmcvay said:

Here's an interview I did about my collection, how I got into the hobby, things I have learned here and dealers I won't buy from and why (I talk extensively about Coolines and the Romitaman Shill controversy (I basically just read his words that he wrote on here) from 2016). I hope people find it helpful. I do mistakenly call Gary Land Greg Land once but I correct myself later. I also give shout outs to Albert Moy, Will Gabri-El and Anthony Snyder.

https://www.lastmovieoutpost.com/outpost-frequencies-episode-10-collecting-comic-art/

 

 

 

Awesome. I was in tears laughing when you two were. Excellent presentation of the facts and a layperson's approach to "shady" practices ;)

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