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Who's Truly Number One?

10 posts in this topic

Difficulties of Certification Number Tracking

 

I noticed that a reply to one of my journals gently scolded me for mentioning member clarkkentdds in the same journal discussing fraud. In my defense I did write in my journal, "I do not believe clarkkentdds is a fraud". Let me reiterate that I fully believe clarkkentdds's collection is 100% legit and actually wrote a journal awhile back where I declared it, "possibly [...] the most staggering comic collection I have seen". Sadly it's now obscured but it really is a sight to behold. I have never seen so many highest grade comics from one of the staple Golden Age collections in one collection. The thing is it's like the girl with the ridiculously out of proportion top. The more amazing the more you start to consider that maybe everything isn't as it seems. I would say it's more of a compliment to clarkkentdds that his collection is so amazing it seems impossible but kudos to clark kent. I happen to be a big fan of focused collections and this one is 100% Adventures of Superman. If only it were not obscured. In fact I'd love to know what museum the collection is featured in.

 

But that isn't really the point of my posting. The CGC registry serves a lot of cool purposes. First, it somewhat tracks where the graded comics are and who has them. Also, they've added a little bit of fun competition including yearly bragging awards. Of course it only works as much as people are accurately entering certification numbers. It's pretty clear that most certification numbers are not being entered so it's possible that the best collections are unknown. It's also becoming increasingly clear that as often as people neglect to add certification numbers to their registry people also don't tend to remove certification numbers when they no longer own a comic. If you look at the highest grade early issue of Captain Marvel Adventures very few are accounted for on the registry. Starman221 has now won Best in Set 5 years straight including the enviable Best Golden Age set of 2009 but very few of his early comics are even close to the highest grade so it seems like there is an awesome Captain Marvel Adventures collection hiding in the shadows.

 

So in perusing the internet for buying opportunities I noticed one of the comics from Starman221's collection up for sale. I knew it was the exact comic based on the registry number. Then I noticed another, and another and whole pile. Not just one website but all over the place. It's possible that all these comics are consignments and he actually does still own them but I think there is a very good chance that many of the comics in Starman221's collection have already been sold and like many registry members doesn't bother to remove them unless someone else claims them. Likewise I noticed that NewForceComics has issues for sale. So at this point two of the collectors above me in registry points may well not have all the registry points assigned to them. Daily Star is currently in second place and I can't tell what he has since his collection is obscured but given the closeness in registry points between his collection and Starman221 there seems to me a decent chance that Daily Star might have been the true 2011 Best in Set winner.

 

So what have I learned? I guess that trying to be number 1 in a particular set may be a fools errand since it's possible you're competing against a collection that doesn't actually exist.

 

See more journals by David Swan

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Having issues for sale doesn't mean they aren't still in your collection. Many people keep some of their issues out in the market at high prices to try and fund other purchases.

 

Maybe the books listed for sale are ones that have been collected but aren't "near and dear" to the collector's heart, so for the right price (i.e. top of market or above) they would be happy to let the books go to fund other parts of their collection.

 

Your assertion could be right. Not everyone who buys a CGC book goes to add it to their registry so it could sit on the previous owners registry, especially if that collector is not actively managing their registry set (that is one thing you don't mention, when is the last time some of these collectors have made changes to their collection? I see some collectors come in, do one big upload and never come back to make any adds/deletes, so who knows if they are online, or heck even alive!)

 

I think many certification numbers don't get entered because they are books slabbed by dealers for the purpose of selling, so they don't get listed in "collections" because the dealer doesn't see them as such, and until they sell to a collector who uses the registry they wont show up.

 

But back to the main point. I think asserting that because a book is on the market means it is likely not in a person's collection is heading down a touchy road with little to no upside. If there are multiple books on ebay, are they all listed with the same seller? If yes then that ebayID may well be Starman221, or Starman221's consignor. If they are across multiple ebayIDs then I could see raising an eyebrow, but even then its not something many people pay attention to outside of the person right above or below them in the registry.

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I think asserting that because a book is on the market means it is likely not in a person's collection is heading down a touchy road with little to no upside.

 

That's why I wrote, "It's possible that all these comics are consignments and he actually does still own them". It was more the sheer volume of comics from the collection that were available that led me to ponder the likelihood that some of the comics NOT available for sale might be because they already sold. I will also say that the ones being sold were a mixture of high and mid grades as well as early and later issues which implies to me that this might not be just a slight pruning of the set.

 

The point isn't to pick on Starman221 but to say that those competative collectors out there need to keep in mind that this is a hobby/sport where the scores validity are tenuous at best.

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I can add validity to David Swan's original post. Take a look at my collection. I started entering books around October of 2010. Since then I have been on a buying frenzy purchasing or having CGC grade my books to the tune of 139 slabs.

 

Quite a few times I have had to have someone transfer their book in the registry to my ownership.

One time it was a book I bought on ComicLink. I decided to ask a fellow board member of their experiences in selling books on Comic Link as I am only familiar with eBay .

 

The owner of that book told me that he had dumped the books over a year ago and that the new owners were probably breaking up the collection on various sites. He transferred ownership but at that point I wondered the same thing. How many of these sets are legitimate?

 

I can tell you that the collection is still up in the Amazing Spider-mans. I should probably be ranked 63 instead of 64. How many other spots should I advance?

 

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I think asserting that because a book is on the market means it is likely not in a person's collection is heading down a touchy road with little to no upside.

 

That's why I wrote, "It's possible that all these comics are consignments and he actually does still own them". It was more the sheer volume of comics from the collection that were available that led me to ponder the likelihood that some of the comics NOT available for sale might be because they already sold.

 

but when you follow up the possibility that he still owns them with "but I think there is a very good chance that many of the comics in Starman221's collection have already been sold and like many registry members doesn't bother to remove them unless someone else claims them." it points your assertion back to the negative. A paragraph long assertion with a single contrary sentence to cover your asterisk is not being fair handed. Fair handed is coming up with reasons for either side of the proposal, as I've tried to help steer you towards but you keep veering on your single course.

 

I will also say that the ones being sold were a mixture of high and mid grades as well as early and later issues which implies to me that this might not be just a slight pruning of the set.

I still think there is as much chance that the collector just has some books out there to see if there's interest. High grades may be available for the sake of trying to catch big fish sales at over market rates, and mid-grades may be available in an effort to upgrade.

 

Anyway, I still don't know what sales you are referring to so I'll reiterate my point. If these are ebay sales are they all the same seller? And is that seller Starman221?

 

You also mention that his books are appearing all over the internet in various marketplaces. I'll assume that you've checked that each image of his book (by ID) matches the grade and pq of the book listed and its not a case of a different seller grabbing images off the web (not sure where they'd get them since Starman221's registry doesnt have many images).

 

Starman221 also seems to be active in updating his sets (he updated his Captain Marvel just last week taking a book off his registry) so if he's actively managing his collection and removing books that aren't in the collection why assert he's keeping books on the list after selling them?

 

Again I understand that you are just trying to point out that in general the CGC Collection registry is not 100% accurate, but I dont think anyone ever thought it was. And until CGC starts giving out Cash prizes and vacations with the Best in Class collections awards I dont think anyone is losing sleep over other peoples registries (except those guys at the top of the New Mutant's registry, they are crazy!)

:jokealert:

 

To end on a positive note (since that's what we're about here) I do want to thank you for adding images to your registry sets and some great detail to your set collections. I know it can be labor intensive to do, but I enjoy seeing other peoples books and collections especially the stuff I don't collect myself.

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I did check the registry numbers and they are the exact same numbers. Nothing I saw was on Ebay. It was all Heritage and World Wide Comics and sites like that. Any activity on Starman221's set seems to be reduction and those may be automatic when someone else tries to register the comic. In fact the same day that the comic was removed it was added to another members set so it's likely that the removal, even if actively done by Starman221, was only a response to a request and not general housecleaning. It's really not that important that I need to run an exhaustive investigation and I'm not claiming that Starman221 is somehow intentionally duplicitous or trying to steal an award.

 

I think given the number of people on the message boards who include their set rankings at the bottom of their postings shows that many people do care about their rank.

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I did check the registry numbers and they are the exact same numbers. Nothing I saw was on Ebay. It was all Heritage and World Wide Comics and sites like that. Any activity on Starman221's set seems to be reduction and those may be automatic when someone else tries to register the comic. In fact the same day that the comic was removed it was added to another members set so it's likely that the removal, even if actively done by Starman221, was only a response to a request and not general housecleaning. It's really not that important that I need to run an exhaustive investigation and I'm not claiming that Starman221 is somehow intentionally duplicitous or trying to steal an award.

 

I think given the number of people on the message boards who include their set rankings at the bottom of their postings shows that many people do care about their rank.

 

gotcha.

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"To end on a positive note (since that's what we're about here) I do want to thank you for adding images to your registry sets and some great detail to your set collections. I know it can be labor intensive to do, but I enjoy seeing other peoples books and collections especially the stuff I don't collect myself. "

 

My goal early this year is to complete all descriptions. My parents have a couple of scanners and I intended on improving my images but the scanners aren't big enough for the large CGC cases. I need to find a place that does scanning. I'm thinking maybe Kinko's. Does anyone know if Office Max does scanning?

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I have to confess I am guilty of some sloth in not deleting comics right away from my registry between ebay and show sales, but the ones I sell are mostly my lower "replaced" copies from my set, so my ranking is true. But I see how it can be a housekeeping error especially for a larger set that is a consignment or aggregated set.

 

I do get into a rank frenzy sometimes when I'm a few points from the next one in a set, so yeah I do take ranks somewhat seriously, but if there's no cash prize, no harm no foul.

 

But if it's a Marvel no-Prize, then the gloves come off.

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