Ninja Turtles - Differences Between Printings? 8 8

[retrothecollector]

you can barely see it but the little 'mark' talked about above the building seems to be there, or am i mistaken ? might be another cgc messup

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles-TMNT-1-Mirage-Studios-SIGNED-CGC-8-5-FIRST-PRINT-/231083806267?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item35cdab0e3b

 

I agree with the others that it's a blurry picture. If I was shopping for one I'd definitely ask for a better picture before bidding.

 

Not only is the "dot" possibly there, but the blood is really off on the last S in turtles as well. I wouldn't rule out it being a counterfeit. From what I can see, it's not worth the risk for peace of mind. I would avoid at all cost.

 

Exactly on the blood on the S.

Here's a good 1st print that looks 100% legit

Turtles #1 8.0

[MattLaw90]

has it been confirmed or debunked yet that #2 1st and 2nd printings can be distinguished by the white corner in the bottom left of the cover? All my 1st prints have it. 2nd prints do not, which i guess would mean 2nd prints would also be shorter. Anyone else chime in on this !?

[retrothecollector]

has it been confirmed or debunked yet that #2 1st and 2nd printings can be distinguished by the white corner in the bottom left of the cover? All my 1st prints have it. 2nd prints do not, which i guess would mean 2nd prints would also be shorter. Anyone else chime in on this !?

Post some crisp clean photos of what your talking about. Thanks!!!

[mrmitchgro]

you can barely see it but the little 'mark' talked about above the building seems to be there, or am i mistaken ? might be another cgc messup

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles-TMNT-1-Mirage-Studios-SIGNED-CGC-8-5-FIRST-PRINT-/231083806267?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item35cdab0e3b

 

I agree with the others that it's a blurry picture. If I was shopping for one I'd definitely ask for a better picture before bidding.

 

Not only is the "dot" possibly there, but the blood is really off on the last S in turtles as well. I wouldn't rule out it being a counterfeit. From what I can see, it's not worth the risk for peace of mind. I would avoid at all cost.

 

Exactly on the blood on the S.

Here's a good 1st print that looks 100% legit

Turtles #1 8.0

 

This isn't a raw book we're talking about, it's been graded. I know CGC has missed some counterfeits in the past, but I think you guys are being way too over-cautious here. I've seen plenty of legit first prints where the red didn't line up with the S.

 

Being educated about the warning signs of fakes is essential to being a well-informed buyer, but you can't let yourself see boogeymen in every copy that's not 100% perfect.

[maloney414]

you can barely see it but the little 'mark' talked about above the building seems to be there, or am i mistaken ? might be another cgc messup

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles-TMNT-1-Mirage-Studios-SIGNED-CGC-8-5-FIRST-PRINT-/231083806267?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item35cdab0e3b

 

I agree with the others that it's a blurry picture. If I was shopping for one I'd definitely ask for a better picture before bidding.

 

Not only is the "dot" possibly there, but the blood is really off on the last S in turtles as well. I wouldn't rule out it being a counterfeit. From what I can see, it's not worth the risk for peace of mind. I would avoid at all cost.

 

Exactly on the blood on the S.

Here's a good 1st print that looks 100% legit

Turtles #1 8.0

 

This isn't a raw book we're talking about, it's been graded. I know CGC has missed some counterfeits in the past, but I think you guys are being way too over-cautious here. I've seen plenty of legit first prints where the red didn't line up with the S.

 

Being educated about the warning signs of fakes is essential to being a well-informed buyer, but you can't let yourself see boogeymen in every copy that's not 100% perfect.

 

People put a lot of faith into CGC. However, they are experts at grading the condition of comics. You can't assume they know every aspect of counterfeit TMNTs.

 

They are human beings, and they make mistakes all the time. If you don't believe that look at all the posts here about bubble slabs, wrong labels, pebbles inside slabs, poor shipping mistakes, etc...

 

It's not just the blood not lining up. It's the blood not lining up AND the possible dot we know is unique to the 2nd print cover. Both of those together would make me wait for the next one if I'm buying. If I'm spending $2,000+ I'd be perfectly happy to wait a few more weeks for another one to show up to make sure I'm not getting a counterfeit. It's not like this is a book that rarely comes up for sale.

 

 

[retrothecollector]

you can barely see it but the little 'mark' talked about above the building seems to be there, or am i mistaken ? might be another cgc messup

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles-TMNT-1-Mirage-Studios-SIGNED-CGC-8-5-FIRST-PRINT-/231083806267?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item35cdab0e3b

 

I agree with the others that it's a blurry picture. If I was shopping for one I'd definitely ask for a better picture before bidding.

 

Not only is the "dot" possibly there, but the blood is really off on the last S in turtles as well. I wouldn't rule out it being a counterfeit. From what I can see, it's not worth the risk for peace of mind. I would avoid at all cost.

 

Exactly on the blood on the S.

Here's a good 1st print that looks 100% legit

Turtles #1 8.0

 

This isn't a raw book we're talking about, it's been graded. I know CGC has missed some counterfeits in the past, but I think you guys are being way too over-cautious here. I've seen plenty of legit first prints where the red didn't line up with the S.

 

Being educated about the warning signs of fakes is essential to being a well-informed buyer, but you can't let yourself see boogeymen in every copy that's not 100% perfect.

 

People put a lot of faith into CGC. However, they are experts at grading the condition of comics. You can't assume they know every aspect of counterfeit TMNTs.

 

They are human beings, and they make mistakes all the time. If you don't believe that look at all the posts here about bubble slabs, wrong labels, pebbles inside slabs, poor shipping mistakes, etc...

 

It's not just the blood not lining up. It's the blood not lining up AND the possible dot we know is unique to the 2nd print cover. Both of those together would make me wait for the next one if I'm buying. If I'm spending $2,000+ I'd be perfectly happy to wait a few more weeks for another one to show up to make sure I'm not getting a counterfeit. It's not like this is a book that rarely comes up for sale.

 

 

This plus a 1000+ Well said maloney. There are not very many at all, possibly just the 1, I listed. And I don't go on other auction sites, I have been but I refuse to pay a buyers premium. That's juts dumb, but that's a topic for a whole other thread.

[mrmitchgro]

you can barely see it but the little 'mark' talked about above the building seems to be there, or am i mistaken ? might be another cgc messup

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles-TMNT-1-Mirage-Studios-SIGNED-CGC-8-5-FIRST-PRINT-/231083806267?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item35cdab0e3b

 

I agree with the others that it's a blurry picture. If I was shopping for one I'd definitely ask for a better picture before bidding.

 

Not only is the "dot" possibly there, but the blood is really off on the last S in turtles as well. I wouldn't rule out it being a counterfeit. From what I can see, it's not worth the risk for peace of mind. I would avoid at all cost.

 

Exactly on the blood on the S.

Here's a good 1st print that looks 100% legit

Turtles #1 8.0

 

This isn't a raw book we're talking about, it's been graded. I know CGC has missed some counterfeits in the past, but I think you guys are being way too over-cautious here. I've seen plenty of legit first prints where the red didn't line up with the S.

 

Being educated about the warning signs of fakes is essential to being a well-informed buyer, but you can't let yourself see boogeymen in every copy that's not 100% perfect.

 

People put a lot of faith into CGC. However, they are experts at grading the condition of comics. You can't assume they know every aspect of counterfeit TMNTs.

 

They are human beings, and they make mistakes all the time. If you don't believe that look at all the posts here about bubble slabs, wrong labels, pebbles inside slabs, poor shipping mistakes, etc...

 

It's not just the blood not lining up. It's the blood not lining up AND the possible dot we know is unique to the 2nd print cover. Both of those together would make me wait for the next one if I'm buying. If I'm spending $2,000+ I'd be perfectly happy to wait a few more weeks for another one to show up to make sure I'm not getting a counterfeit. It's not like this is a book that rarely comes up for sale.

 

 

Since CGC often labels books as counterfeits, I in fact do expect them to be experts in spotting them. I think it's telling that in regards to the book that started this thread, CGC made the buyer of the mislabeled 3rd print whole by finding a 9.8 first print replacement. That couldn't have come cheap. So while they do make mistakes, I have confidence in their ability to make it right.

 

On the other hand, consider copies of Gobbledygook. CGC doesn't grade these specifically because they can't tell them apart from the fakes. So if they were worried about the same issue with TMNT 1s, they wouldn't grade those.

 

You of course can do whatever you'd like with your money, but asking a seller for an additional picture to verify the dot seems like the right response, not "avoid at all cost".

[mschmidt]

you can barely see it but the little 'mark' talked about above the building seems to be there, or am i mistaken ? might be another cgc messup

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles-TMNT-1-Mirage-Studios-SIGNED-CGC-8-5-FIRST-PRINT-/231083806267?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item35cdab0e3b

 

I agree with the others that it's a blurry picture. If I was shopping for one I'd definitely ask for a better picture before bidding.

 

Not only is the "dot" possibly there, but the blood is really off on the last S in turtles as well. I wouldn't rule out it being a counterfeit. From what I can see, it's not worth the risk for peace of mind. I would avoid at all cost.

 

Exactly on the blood on the S.

Here's a good 1st print that looks 100% legit

Turtles #1 8.0

 

This isn't a raw book we're talking about, it's been graded. I know CGC has missed some counterfeits in the past, but I think you guys are being way too over-cautious here. I've seen plenty of legit first prints where the red didn't line up with the S.

 

Being educated about the warning signs of fakes is essential to being a well-informed buyer, but you can't let yourself see boogeymen in every copy that's not 100% perfect.

 

People put a lot of faith into CGC. However, they are experts at grading the condition of comics. You can't assume they know every aspect of counterfeit TMNTs.

 

They are human beings, and they make mistakes all the time. If you don't believe that look at all the posts here about bubble slabs, wrong labels, pebbles inside slabs, poor shipping mistakes, etc...

 

It's not just the blood not lining up. It's the blood not lining up AND the possible dot we know is unique to the 2nd print cover. Both of those together would make me wait for the next one if I'm buying. If I'm spending $2,000+ I'd be perfectly happy to wait a few more weeks for another one to show up to make sure I'm not getting a counterfeit. It's not like this is a book that rarely comes up for sale.

 

 

Since CGC often labels books as counterfeits, I in fact do expect them to be experts in spotting them. I think it's telling that in regards to the book that started this thread, CGC made the buyer of the mislabeled 3rd print whole by finding a 9.8 first print replacement. That couldn't have come cheap. So while they do make mistakes, I have confidence in their ability to make it right.

 

On the other hand, consider copies of Gobbledygook. CGC doesn't grade these specifically because they can't tell them apart from the fakes. So if they were worried about the same issue with TMNT 1s, they wouldn't grade those.

 

You of course can do whatever you'd like with your money, but asking a seller for an additional picture to verify the dot seems like the right response, not "avoid at all cost".

 

 

From my experience, CGC's graders are very knowledgeable when it comes to the books they grade and they'd rather err on the side of caution than slab something they're not 100% sure about (which is exactly the case with the Gobbledygooks).

 

For common counterfeits like the TMNT #1 and Cerebus #1, I'd wager a guess they're far better at spotting the counterfeits than most people in this thread. Don't believe me? Send a counterfeit TMNT #1 to CGC with no mention of this on the paperwork and see what happens

[Ryan.]

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6982694Post6982694

[mschmidt]

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6982694Post6982694

 

That wasn't a counterfeit copy :shrug:

 

(Not saying CGC doesn't make mistakes from time to time - they do. But in the grand scheme of things, they know their *spoon*.)

[Ryan.]

I agree. Just felt germaine to the conversation. I would certainly buy a slabbed TMNT 1 online well before a raw copy.

[mrmitchgro]

I would certainly buy a slabbed TMNT 1 online well before a raw copy.

 

That was my point. I thought it was unnecessary fear-mongering based on an incomplete set of facts (i.e. a blurry picture that may have a dot).

[Legion HQ]

I do wish that CGC would make an exception at their discretion and slab the Gobbledygook books where provenance is proven. The two (well, one now) sets on eBay currently seem to have that proof available. It would be a service to the hobby to help prevent any future shenanigans. Hell, even give each slabbed copy its own "Provenance" note, like CGC does with pedigrees. For the one currently on eBay, they can label it the 'Leroux provenance' book. Ideally, they would be able to get all 50 copies officially slabbed and provenanced for each book. The hobby could then be much better off, and I'd imagine the value of the books would be that much greater with that kind of official verification whenever they came up for sale.

[jaybuck43]

While I wish that CGC did that, the problem is that it is just too hard to prove it is legit. Even the provenance isn't 100%. It's "Well I am pretty sure this is the copy I gave my friend so I think this is it" So CGC stays above the fray and really they have to. If they start certifying books that turn out to be counterfeits than the hobby loses trust in CGC all together and the market crashes. Just my

[maloney414]

you can barely see it but the little 'mark' talked about above the building seems to be there, or am i mistaken ? might be another cgc messup

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles-TMNT-1-Mirage-Studios-SIGNED-CGC-8-5-FIRST-PRINT-/231083806267?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item35cdab0e3b

 

I agree with the others that it's a blurry picture. If I was shopping for one I'd definitely ask for a better picture before bidding.

 

Not only is the "dot" possibly there, but the blood is really off on the last S in turtles as well. I wouldn't rule out it being a counterfeit. From what I can see, it's not worth the risk for peace of mind. I would avoid at all cost.

 

Exactly on the blood on the S.

Here's a good 1st print that looks 100% legit

Turtles #1 8.0

 

This isn't a raw book we're talking about, it's been graded. I know CGC has missed some counterfeits in the past, but I think you guys are being way too over-cautious here. I've seen plenty of legit first prints where the red didn't line up with the S.

 

Being educated about the warning signs of fakes is essential to being a well-informed buyer, but you can't let yourself see boogeymen in every copy that's not 100% perfect.

 

People put a lot of faith into CGC. However, they are experts at grading the condition of comics. You can't assume they know every aspect of counterfeit TMNTs.

 

They are human beings, and they make mistakes all the time. If you don't believe that look at all the posts here about bubble slabs, wrong labels, pebbles inside slabs, poor shipping mistakes, etc...

 

It's not just the blood not lining up. It's the blood not lining up AND the possible dot we know is unique to the 2nd print cover. Both of those together would make me wait for the next one if I'm buying. If I'm spending $2,000+ I'd be perfectly happy to wait a few more weeks for another one to show up to make sure I'm not getting a counterfeit. It's not like this is a book that rarely comes up for sale.

 

 

Since CGC often labels books as counterfeits, I in fact do expect them to be experts in spotting them. I think it's telling that in regards to the book that started this thread, CGC made the buyer of the mislabeled 3rd print whole by finding a 9.8 first print replacement. That couldn't have come cheap. So while they do make mistakes, I have confidence in their ability to make it right.

 

No one questioned CGC's customer service about fixing mistakes. You're changing the subject.

 

In fact, I've had several mistakes on CGC's part happen to me, and every time they handled the problems with excellent customer service. The point is that on a $2,900+ book I don't want to have to go through that process at all. I want the book to arrive safely and have no doubts my grail purchase is real.

 

In this particular case there are red flags causing doubt. And you just admitted it yourself that CGC can make mistakes.

 

 

On the other hand, consider copies of Gobbledygook. CGC doesn't grade these specifically because they can't tell them apart from the fakes. So if they were worried about the same issue with TMNT 1s, they wouldn't grade those.

 

You of course can do whatever you'd like with your money, but asking a seller for an additional picture to verify the dot seems like the right response, not "avoid at all cost".

 

I said I would ask for additional pics if I was looking to buy in my earlier post. See above.

 

 

 

I would certainly buy a slabbed TMNT 1 online well before a raw copy.

 

That was my point. I thought it was unnecessary fear-mongering based on an incomplete set of facts (i.e. a blurry picture that may have a dot).

 

To the "fear-mongering" comment...

 

That's

 

I think my history here shows I'm a calm logical person.

 

I'm speaking my mind to help fellow collectors here make an informed decision about their grail purchase.

 

 

- TMNT fans here tend to be a tight group.

- We're in the minority here on the boards in that we are more passionate about owning, than selling/flipping.

- There are concerns. In this community they should be talked about.

- $2,900+ is a lot of money. For most of us it's a ton of money, that takes time to save.

- No one wants to spend that kind of money and find out later somethings wrong. Even if CGC would make it right, no one wants to go through that on a grail purchase for that expensive a book.

- Odds are good another one in the same grade range will be available to buy. It's not like this book doesn't come up for sale constantly. I would wait for the next one. I think that's good info to talk about with my fellow boardies who want to buy a TMNT #1.

 

That's not fear-mongering, that's looking out for each other here in this community.

 

 

 

[maloney414]

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6982694Post6982694

 

That wasn't a counterfeit copy :shrug:

 

(Not saying CGC doesn't make mistakes from time to time - they do. But in the grand scheme of things, they know their *spoon*.)

 

 

+1

 

In the grand scheme of things, they know their *spoon*, but they make mistakes from time to time.

 

Which is why it's a good thing we are sharing our concerns with our fellow boardies right now. (thumbs u

 

[MattLaw90]

has it been confirmed or debunked yet that #2 1st and 2nd printings can be distinguished by the white corner in the bottom left of the cover? All my 1st prints have it. 2nd prints do not, which i guess would mean 2nd prints would also be shorter. Anyone else chime in on this !?

Post some crisp clean photos of what your talking about. Thanks!!!

first photo is of a 1st print #2

 

next is of a 2nd print #2

 

this is the white corner im speaking of. Wanted to see if this holds up with other copies

Edited November 3, 2013 by MattLaw90

[spracknetch23]

I just checked my raw 1st and 2nd printings, and they are the same, with the white corner on the first print. Interesting, never noticed that before.

[etanick]

i think it is more a case of vertical miswrap because I have seen a variety of 1st print where the white left corner is either cut off all the way to being fairly large. I wouldn't rely on that corner to determine if the copy is 1st, 2nd or counterfeit.

[comiconxion]

I noticed that difference year ago as well. I think it does hold true in many cases, although maybe not all cases. Keep in mind that the size of the books is also slightly different. I think it has to do with additional artwork being exposed because of the size difference in the books.