Ninja Turtles - Differences Between Printings?
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There is another "tell" on the back cover but I forget what it is. I've never owned one, but I'm sure someone else can chime in on this counterfeit.

 

Hey dude, thanks for this post, and directing me here.

 

You can tell a counterfeit by the back cover, there is a huge smudge on it.

 

Bad picture from an old ebay listing but you can see the white stripes and a smudge going horizontally about halfway down:

 

ag_c_1.JPG

 

This is my copy of the counterfeit, you can see the smudge much better in this picture:

 

n1_c_back_001.jpg

 

 

This thread was awesome and made me go

 

TURTLE,_X_LG.jpg

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Just read thru the whole thread bc I won this at auction last evening:

 

$T2eC16h,!)UE9s3wEg5FBRDFupds0w~~60_57.JPG

 

Don't have it in hand yet, so can't get a closer look....however from the pictures it appears that there's no artifact above the bldg....

 

Big kudos to all that exposed the printing differences....I had a huge sigh of relief after comparing images....

 

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:bump:

Because it`s a Hall of Fame thread!

Newbs need to see this helpful thread, so they don`t get burned!

(thumbs u

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:bump:

Because it`s a Hall of Fame thread!

Newbs need to see this helpful thread, so they don`t get burned!

(thumbs u

 

+1

 

Great thread for TMNT #1 buyers! (thumbs u

 

Here is some of the info:

 

 

 

1st Printing:

 

- Cover is red

- Ad inside back cover is for Gobbledygook

- Address inside of front cover is Dover NH

- No extra blood in 2nd “T” in turtles on cover

- No black dot above building above Raphael

- Doesn’t say 1st, 2nd or 3rd printing inside front cover

 

 

2nd Printing:

 

- Cover is red

- Ad inside back cover is for t-shirts

- Tiny black dot above right corner of building above Raphael (picture below)

- Says 2nd printing inside front cover

- Address inside front cover is Dover NH

- gap in the 2 page splash image along the spine.

 

Black dot above Raphael:

1_zps0ff862bc.jpg

 

Gap on splash page:

TMNTsplash_zpsc35e9d11.jpg

 

3rd Printing:

 

- Cover is pinkish

- Ad inside back cover is for t-shirts

- Extra blood in 2nd “T” in turtles on cover (picture below)

- Book was colored/grey tones/shaded darker (see Raphael page below)

- No black dot above building above Raphael

- Says 3rd printing inside front cover

- Address inside front cover is Sharon, CT

 

Extra blood in 2nd "T"

T_zps10b5e808.jpg

 

 

Width measurement ranges:

1st print - 7 1/2" to 7 9/16"

 

2nd print - 7 9/16" to 7 3/4"

 

3rd print - 7 3/8"

 

 

Counterfeit Copies:

 

The first thing to check are the details mentioned above. For example, if someone takes a 2nd print and bleaches the inside to remove the "2nd Printing" the book will still have the "dot on the cover" and the T-Shirt Ad on the inside back cover. Those would be red flags to check. (thumbs u

 

Another thing I've seen done is people take a 3rd printing and photoshop a 1st print cover to print. Then wrap the fake 1st print cover around a 3rd print book. We spotted one here on the boards recently.

 

However, a 3rd print is slightly smaller, so they had to trim their 1st print fake cover to fit the 3rd print interior. The Gobbledygook ad and indicia were cut wrong.

 

Indicia shouldn't be cut off at the bottom this way:

TMNTindicia_zps5a78769d.jpg

 

The right corner of the Gobbledygook #2 shouldn't be cut off either:

TMNTGobbl_zps43aca9c2.jpg

 

However, the owner thought it might have just been "trimmed" but when I asked him about the grey tones/shading it became obvious it was a completely fake cover wrapped around a 3rd print interior.

 

Here is the difference in colors/grey tones. The easiest page to see the difference is the Raphael splash page. 1st/2nd print on the left, 3rd print on the right:

IMG_1535.jpg

 

Another famous Counterfeit is the "White Stripe" counterfeit. There were a lot of these made so the quality of the books is much sharper and well done. The "tells" for those is the blood is off on the "S" in turtles creating a horizontal "white stripe" and there is a "white stripe" down the right side of the image. Apparently, during the creation of the cover, the red printing was slightly off creating the gaps.

 

CounterfeitReddoesntlineupwithblackonrightsideWhitestripe.jpg

 

If anybody else knows more details about the differences or specific counterfeits they've seen, please share!! I think it's great to share this info so other boardie's buying TMNT #1's can make informed decisions. (thumbs u

 

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On that first counterfeit, they might try reducing the image size by about 3-5% so they won't have to trim it. Of course, this would create a tell of it's own. Just something else to consider when inspecting one.

 

The tough thing there is you're not likely to have a real 1st print handy to compare a sight difference in image size. The gray scale of the splash page sounds like a vital countermeasure.

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+1

 

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Most counterfeiters like to leave a tell as a way to sign their work. The more info you know about the book the better chance you have of spotting fakes.

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How does CGC treat the "bleached" counterfeits when grading/labeling them? I know that they will label the obvious counterfeits as such on labels (xeroxed cover, blue tinted copies, etc.) but what about 2nd and 3rd prints that have the printing indicia bleached out? Do they label those as counterfeits or label them appropriately and downgrade for the alteration?

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A while back i had a cover swap with third print interior counterfeit graded just to see what would happen (truth be told I was hoping they would grade it counterfeit, and that is what I labeled it as on the submission)

 

They however... did something I did not expect.

 

20130829_182330.jpg

 

As you can see, the book is NG and labeled Coverless appropriately...but there is no indication that it is not a first printing.

 

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Interesting. So there's really nothing stopping someone from buying a third print, tearing off the cover, subbing it to get this label, and selling the book as a coverless first print. Now we all have something else to look out for when buying first prints.

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Interesting. So there's really nothing stopping someone from buying a third print, tearing off the cover, subbing it to get this label, and selling the book as a coverless first print. Now we all have something else to look out for when buying first prints.

 

Indeed. I'd probably just avoid buying a coverless copy period.

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Seems like sound advice. Not that I recall ever actually seeing one.

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Seems like sound advice. Not that I recall ever actually seeing one.

 

Can't tell how many there are. NG's don't show up on the census. If you check the number on this one via the site, it sends you to the first printing census page (which is scary), but it isn't listed.

 

Also, in regard to what they qualify as a COUNTERFEIT, Here's a conversation between myself and CGC after the coverswap book was graded.

 

AS A DISCLAIMER: This was right after I discovered the book wasn't going to get graded as a counterfeit (which is what I was shooting for). So I was a little miffed during this exchange.

 

I noticed that despite having been verified as a counterfeit book, it has been graded as coverless. How does it not meet the criteria for counterfeit? The book uses a non-first print interior with a reproduction of a first print cover. The reproduced cover was done so in a vintage time frame, and it was sold to the original owner under the pretense that it was a genuine #1. The book was DEFINITELY created with the intent to deceive. That qualifies as counterfeit in my book.

 

The counterfeit notation is used explicitly for the well documented counterfeit printing of the book. What you sent is not that actual counterfeit, this is the actual book inside and a photocopy cover then it is treated as a cover less. They are two totally different things.
Edited by Archon_Turtle

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CGC's logic does make sense. The interior is authentic and the cover is merely a copy. However they really need to spend a little more time identifying the appropriate printing and notating that on the label.

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CGC's logic does make sense. The interior is authentic and the cover is merely a copy. However they really need to spend a little more time identifying the appropriate printing and notating that on the label.

 

I agree with you now. I just didn't agree in the moment :-P

 

Although I think it's weird that they think there is only 1 "legitimate" counterfeit run out there.

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Interesting. So basically this is treated as "coverless 3rd printing with reproduction cover", which is exactly what it is. However, the printing notation not present is a VERY important oversight. Did CGC believe it to be a 1st printing interior perhaps?

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Did CGC believe it to be a 1st printing interior perhaps?

 

This would be my best guess.

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Interesting. So basically this is treated as "coverless 3rd printing with reproduction cover", which is exactly what it is. However, the printing notation not present is a VERY important oversight. Did CGC believe it to be a 1st printing interior perhaps?

 

So it would seem, but that is an epic case of carelessness. A TMNT #1 not having the original cover is a glaringly obvious red flag that it's probably not a first print.

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Interesting. So there's really nothing stopping someone from buying a third print, tearing off the cover, subbing it to get this label, and selling the book as a coverless first print. Now we all have something else to look out for when buying first prints.

 

You can tell it's a third print by the greytones. The 1st page is pretty easy to see the difference. (thumbs u

 

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