Ninja Turtles - Differences Between Printings? 8 8

[mschmidt]

I believe it's definitely not a 1st print.

 

It could be a counterfeit made from an image of the outside cover of a 3rd print and a 1st print interior cover image. Thus "fooling" CGC. The only way to know if it's a counterfeit would be to crack it open and check.

 

Or the simple answer is that it was mislabeled. It happens. More often than you think. It could have been an honest mistake. It's just that this time it was on an expensive book.

 

If this is the case it brings up the question of who the original submitter was. If I worked at CGC the 1st thing I would do is try to find the original invoice and see if the book was submitted as a 1st or 3rd print by the original person. I'm not a lawyer, but If they submitted it as a 3rd print it may put the fraud aspect on the submitter. If it can be shown they submitted a 3rd print, then received a mislabeled book, and then proceded to cash in on the mistake to an unsuspecting buyer.

 

The book was part of Pedigree Comics' grand auction in May of last year - they had a ton of other TMNT stuff at the same time (#2-4 also in CGC 9.8, Turtlemanias, a Gobbledygook 1-2 set, etc) which all came from the same guy.

 

Here's the post by Doug announcing the auctions here on the board:

 

The ultra high grade comic and magazine consignments are still coming in for Pedigree Comics’ upcoming May Grand Auction, scheduled to begin in just a few days on the night of Monday, May 9th, and last for eight (8) days until the evening of Tuesday, May 17th. The auction will have over 400 choice high grade CGC certified Marvels and DC’s from the Silver and Bronze Ages, plus an incredible group of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. There is no Buyers Premium on any of the lots in the auction and most of the books will have no reserve. Every book is CGC graded and the minimum bid is only $100. You can check out over 300 books in the Auction Preview right now at www.PedigreeComics.com.

 

One of the absolute highlights of the auction is the brand new, never before offered consignment of highest graded and best existing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. These comics and magazines were just graded by the CGC earlier this week and will be added to the Auction Listing this weekend in time for Monday’s auction start. Each book is the absolute best existing and highest graded copy of that issue. Included in the listing are issues #1 and #2 of the coveted Gobbledygook, which features the first ever appearance of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on the back cover ads. As CGC does not certify issues of Gobbledygook, they will be listed raw. Both copies are in beautiful, unread condition with snow white pages and are easily amongst the nicest copies ever found. The #1 is especially hard to find in any condition, as it was limited to only approximately 50 copies. Here are the just graded Turtles books, which includes a Flaming Carrot #1:

 

Gobbleygook 1 VF+

Gobbleygook 2 VF/NM

Flaming Carrot 1 9.4

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 1 9.8

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 9.8

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 3 9.8 (Double Cover)

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 3 9.6 (Variant Cover)

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 4 9.8

Turtlemania Special 1 9.8

Turtlemania Special 1 9.6 (Gold Edition)

Turtlemania Special 1 9.6 (Silver Edition)

 

If you have any questions, comments, suggestions, concerns, etc. about the Grand Auction or the consignment process, please contact Mr. Schmell at (561) 422-1120 or (561) 596-9111 or by email at DougSchmell@pedigreecomics.com.

 

Pedigree has sold numerous TMNT books before, so it seems odd that they would send in a 3rd print #1 with all the other high-grade 1st print TMNT books - they know what a 1st print #1 looks like, which, imho, lends credence to the theory that the book has somehow been tampered with.

[USArmyParatrooper]

I think the smart money, regarding that PGX video, is the guy knew he sent in a 3rd print, saw they messed up on the label and then capitalized on PGX's incompetence.

 

I don't think so. I didn't get that impression from the video, and his submission paperwork would have reflected 3rd print.

[Bosco685]

I think the smart money, regarding that PGX video, is the guy knew he sent in a 3rd print, saw they messed up on the label and then capitalized on PGX's incompetence.

 

I don't think so. I didn't get that impression from the video, and his submission paperwork would have reflected 3rd print.

 

Not if he wanted to gamble, and see what would come back. But it's all guessing unless we see:

 

- The PGX submission form

- Prior pictures or a video of the book before going into PGX

 

That's the challenge.

[aggr1103]

I think the smart money is the guy knew he sent in a 3rd print, saw they messed up on the label and then capitalized on PGX's incompetence.

 

Crazy thing is, you change one company acronym in this sentence for another and we may very well be dealing with the same scenario in this situation. I know incompetence is a strong word, but from my perspective we're dealing with one of the most significant, if not THE most significantly important book of the copper age. Getting the printing wrong on a Batman 497 is one thing, its something TOTALLY different when were dealing with TMNT #1.

 

I don't have a horse in the race with regards to this though. I will say as others have said this thread has been a gem of information and fun to follow in comparison to the 20 or Gerry Ross threads in general.

[aggr1103]

Pedigree has sold numerous TMNT books before, so it seems odd that they would send in a 3rd print #1 with all the other high-grade 1st print TMNT books - they know what a 1st print #1 looks like, which, imho, lends credence to the theory that the book has somehow been tampered with.

 

Are you thinking the slab was tampered with, as in a new label transposed over the true label? Wasn't there a thread where a guy was putting higher grades in slabs for copies of Hulk 181 and selling them on ebay? Or are you saying a doctored book got through and was labeled without the 'NG-counterfeit' designation?

[USArmyParatrooper]

I think the smart money is the guy knew he sent in a 3rd print, saw they messed up on the label and then capitalized on PGX's incompetence.

 

Crazy thing is, you change one company acronym in this sentence for another and we may very well be dealing with the same scenario in this situation. I know incompetence is a strong word, but from my perspective we're dealing with one of the most significant, if not THE most significantly important book of the copper age. Getting the printing wrong on a Batman 497 is one thing, its something TOTALLY different when were dealing with TMNT #1.

 

I don't have a horse in the race with regards to this though. I will say as others have said this thread has been a gem of information and fun to follow in comparison to the 20 or Gerry Ross threads in general.

 

Oh, I totally agree. personally I went from having very little knowledge about this comic to being able to identify all the printings from each other. Stronguy even discovered a way to tell first print from second print from the cover alone, something that to my knowledge had never been discovered for. I got way more than I was hoping for when I made this thread

Edited March 8, 2012 by USArmyParatrooper

[Bosco685]

I think accusing anyone right now of running a scam without detailed information is a dangerous approach to take. Especially with thousands of dollars involved.

 

If even Peter Palmer couldn't tell 100% what was a 1st print just from the cover until Stronguy pointed a detail out, that hints at a chance for mistaken identity - not planned trickery. Though if someone submitted the books to CGC knowing TMNT 1 was not a first print would be a big OOOPS - but you would assume someone in receiving or grading would have noted the mistake.

 

But it will be interesting to see where this goes.

[aggr1103]

But it will be interesting to see where this goes.

 

+1

 

My hope is that the 9.8 is truly a 1st print or there is some reasonable explanation, even though everything in this thread leads me to think that it is not a 1st print. That way everyone associated will still have their integrity intact.

 

Its still fun to try to flesh out possible "what ifs" regarding it though.

[Bosco685]

Hey, at least we got to watch that TMNT 1 PGX video again. It's been a long time since I last watched it.

 

But I'm going to shy away from judging what happened, as there are a few critical unknowns. Some people called it great acting when it was first posted, and that the Academy was waiting for him to pick up his Oscar.

 

[graffix13]

Oh, I totally agree. personally I went from having very little knowledge about this comic to being able to identify all the printings from each other. Stronguy even discovered a way to tell first print from second print from the cover alone, something that to my knowledge had never been discovered for. I got way more than I was hoping for when I made this thread

 

I agree! EPIC thread.

 

Good work guys! Very informative and a great read.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Or the simple answer is that it was mislabeled.

 

[mschmidt]

Pedigree has sold numerous TMNT books before, so it seems odd that they would send in a 3rd print #1 with all the other high-grade 1st print TMNT books - they know what a 1st print #1 looks like, which, imho, lends credence to the theory that the book has somehow been tampered with.

 

Are you thinking the slab was tampered with, as in a new label transposed over the true label? Wasn't there a thread where a guy was putting higher grades in slabs for copies of Hulk 181 and selling them on ebay? Or are you saying a doctored book got through and was labeled without the 'NG-counterfeit' designation?

 

The latter. As far as I know, Pedigree slabbed all these TMNT books (on behalf of the owner) so they could be placed in their auction - I know some people have issues with Schmell around here, but I just can't see him being involved in a label switch-out. If this book truly is a 3rd print, I think the far more likely scenario is that the raw book was doctored a long time prior to Pedigree getting their hands on it ...

[RockMyAmadeus]

I think the smart money is the guy knew he sent in a 3rd print, saw they messed up on the label and then capitalized on PGX's incompetence.

 

Crazy thing is, you change one company acronym in this sentence for another and we may very well be dealing with the same scenario in this situation. I know incompetence is a strong word, but from my perspective we're dealing with one of the most significant, if not THE most significantly important book of the copper age. Getting the printing wrong on a Batman 497 is one thing, its something TOTALLY different when were dealing with TMNT #1.

 

 

Here are pictures of the mislabeled second and third print #0s:

 

 

Which one's which? I dunno anymore.

[Stronguy]

I think the smart money, regarding that PGX video, is the guy knew he sent in a 3rd print, saw they messed up on the label and then capitalized on PGX's incompetence.

 

I don't think so. I didn't get that impression from the video, and his submission paperwork would have reflected 3rd print.

 

! You're assuming PGX is a legit company that would actually know a 1st from 3rd or that this guy even would have written 3rd print on the invoice (thinking he might get lucky and they would miss it like they did). DiceX called this guy out the first time he popped his head up and he disappeared. Regardless, it was either this guy being shady and capitalizing on them missing that he subbed a 3rd print or it was PGX swapping books and trying to pull a fast one (and this wouldn't shock me either).

[Stronguy]

Or the simple answer is that it was mislabeled.

 

 

:thumbsup:

 

I don't think CGC was up to no good but I would lay money (not $23k mind you) on there being a breakdown in QC and this thing getting the wrong label. I've had a few mislabeled books from them... usually no big deal and easily corrected. The only difference is the money involved in this case.

[supapimp]

as i mentioned in a previous post, did the consignor know about CGC's err?

[K-Mace]

So, what's the experts' opinion on the three copies of TMNT #1 that are up for auction tonight on ComicLink? Are their scans large enough to confirm that none of the books are second printings? I've been going cross-eyed staring at those scans trying to determine if that artifact is there...

[Stronguy]

All 3 are legit 1st printings.

[Bosco685]

All 3 are legit 1st printings.

 

Amen!

 

[whetteon]

All 3 are legit 1st printings.

 

Now, who won them?