post your internment camp-coded okajima books

[sfcityduck]

Looking at the Military, Police and Air Fighters, I see what appears to be "3_" (not sure the letter), "2x", and "2g" in the same handwriting as the date. I'd guess that is some sort of code put on by the camp store or the distributor, just like the dates. I find it hard to believe those refer to the building she lived in because those three comics came out every other month over a six month span. Seems unlikely she changed buildings three times in six months, but I suppose its possible.

 

I also now see there's something written next to the issue no. on the CA. What does that say? Be interesting if it is a different number/letter combination, as the CA may have come out the month between the Policy and Air Fighters and would further call into question whether that refers to a building address.

[MrBedrock]

Again, so "camp code" just refers to the date?

 

Let's see if I can make it simple so that you might more easily understand....

Camp Code...

Notice all of the writing at the top? Some of that coding supposedly refers to the actually building where she was confined. I doubt a young "Miss Okajima" had penmanship like that.

 

 

The only "code" I see on that book is the name "Okajima" and what appears to me to be the date "5-9-44." CA 40 is cover dated 7/44 so a 5/44 issuance date is consistent with the cover date. Is the "5-9-44" on all the comic books regardless of the approximate dates they came out, or are other numbers consistent with dates on other books from the collection?

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see anything that refers ot the building where she was confined. Can you transcribe that part of the "code" so I know what you are referring to?

 

The story seems a little implausible to me because the internees obtained their comic books from camp stores. They weren't confined to a barracks like a POW camp, but had freedom of movement within the camp (and actually some were also allowed to take trips outside the camps also). I suppose she might have put her "address" (e.g., the building number she lived in) on the comic, but there is no way that was done by any camp officials.

 

As for the penmanship, back in the 40s kids learned cursive (unlike, in some schools, today) and used it frequently. And the Japanese kids were often excellent students. The penmanship looks like school-girl cursive to me.

On the right side of the cover is an additional code. It is faint on the Cap. But look through the thread. All of the other books have it. 2X, 2J etc. That code is on all of the books from this time period. Explain those codes as well please. And a couple of honest questions. Since the books from this collection obviously have different markings from the war years versus those from later, and since it is commonly accepted that the OO was in the internment camps, what problem are you having with calling them "camp-coded" Okajimas? Are we committing some PC offense? Or are you just concerned that the implication of calling them camp-coded might be perpetrating some fraud on the collecting community?

[Straw-Man]

so you think the clerk at the "company store" or the distributor wrote the date and the short numerical code, and that the little girl wrote "okajima." you think two different hands/pens were involved, right?

 

i dare say you would be in a mitch medhy-type minority in that view. it could not be more obvious to me that the same person/pen is writing ALL of the notations we see.

[MrBedrock]

and when you do finally see the third component of the "code," you'll not be able to say it's like the church books ultimate number, that relates to how many issues were distributed to the seller, since you say it was a schoolgirl who is doing the writing.

Boom! That's some special kind of lawyering action right there.

 

If the girl didn't write the code then code must have been written by the camp.

Camp-coded.

[sfcityduck]

we think/understand that the last aspect of the code deals with where she was housed.

 

and tho' it's incapable of proof, i'd bet my hat, and overcoat that is wasn't a little girl who wrote on those books.

 

 

If we knew what camp she was in, or even her name (which I could use to trace what camp she was in, then we could find out how the buildings were designated at that camp and maybe even her actual addresses in the camp. Which would nail this down. But, unless you got something other than speculation based on the fact that the comics have a date and a number-letter code (which appears to be the same handwriting), I'm not sure how you can conclude that refers to where she was housed.

 

Which I'm not sure matters at all. What is cool is that you know that the books came from a collection compiled by a girl while interned. Even if the "coding" was put on by a distributor or the camp store and has nothing to do with where the girl lived, it doesn't diminish the book. So take a chill pill.

 

As for the handwriting, I don't think it is inconsistent with fourth grade girl's handwriting back then. Handwriting is a fading art now, so I can see why you might be skeptical.

 

 

[Straw-Man]

look how obvious it is that the same pen wrote it all:

 

on this one, the pen used had a pretty fine nib---see how delicate the inks are on all three components of the code.

 

 

but this time, the pen grabbed had a much broader nib, and thus all 3 components of the code are layed down in a very thick ink flow. all 3, identical.

 

 

yep, same person/pen took care of all 3 components of the code.

[sfcityduck]

so you think the clerk at the "company store" or the distributor wrote the date and the short numerical code, and that the little girl wrote "okajima." you think two different hands/pens were involved, right?

 

i dare say you would be in a mitch medhy-type minority in that view. it could not be more obvious to me that the same person/pen is writing ALL of the notations we see.

 

I don't see how you can concluded that the word "Okajima" is the same hand as the numbers or even the letters "x" and "g" as there are absolutely zero points of comparison. In my profession, I occassionally use handwriting experts, and I don't think there's enough data to do the analysis. So we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

Not sure why you got your panties in a wad over this, but I view your attempt to compare me to Mitch Mehdy as sort of a violation of "Goodwin's Law" at least as applied to this sight.

[MrBedrock]

So take a chill pill.

 

Right back atcha (thumbs u

[sfcityduck]

and when you do finally see the third component of the "code," you'll not be able to say it's like the church books ultimate number, that relates to how many issues were distributed to the seller, since you say it was a schoolgirl who is doing the writing.

Boom! That's some special kind of lawyering action right there.

 

If the girl didn't write the code then code must have been written by the camp.

Camp-coded.

 

Or a distributor. Or other internees (who I think sometimes ran the stores). Poof.

[Straw-Man]

so you think the clerk at the "company store" or the distributor wrote the date and the short numerical code, and that the little girl wrote "okajima." you think two different hands/pens were involved, right?

 

i dare say you would be in a mitch medhy-type minority in that view. it could not be more obvious to me that the same person/pen is writing ALL of the notations we see.

 

I don't see how you can concluded that the word "Okajima" is the same hand as the numbers or even the letters "x" and "g" as there are absolutely zero points of comparison. In my profession, I occassionally use handwriting experts, and I don't think there's enough data to do the analysis. So we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

Not sure why you got your panties in a wad over this, but I view your attempt to compare me to Mitch Mehdy as sort of a violation of "Goodwin's Law" at least as applied to this sight.

 

i do feel bad about that, and am apologizing here and now for it.

[MrBedrock]

and when you do finally see the third component of the "code," you'll not be able to say it's like the church books ultimate number, that relates to how many issues were distributed to the seller, since you say it was a schoolgirl who is doing the writing.

Boom! That's some special kind of lawyering action right there.

 

If the girl didn't write the code then code must have been written by the camp.

Camp-coded.

 

Or a distributor. Or other internees (who I think sometimes ran the stores). Poof.

 

I think you missed these...

And a couple of honest questions. Since the books from this collection obviously have different markings from the war years versus those from later, and since it is commonly accepted that the OO was in the internment camps, what problem are you having with calling them "camp-coded" Okajimas? Are we committing some PC offense? Or are you just concerned that the implication of calling them camp-coded might be perpetrating some fraud on the collecting community?

[Straw-Man]

boardies----those of you that think the same person wrote all 3 components of the code [date, name, "2x"] simply vote by posting "same person."

 

those that think one person wrote the date and the "2x", and a different person [the little girl, according to 'duck] wrote the name, post "2 people."

[Straw-Man]

same person.

[MrBedrock]

(Sarcasm alert) - I'm pretty convinced that each individual letter was written by a different confinee. They all write the same.

 

(Seriously) - The same person.

[sfcityduck]

yep, same person/pen took care of all 3 components of the code.

 

I think this is a persuasive argument. It does look like the same pen for all three bits of information. Which begs the question: Why?

 

I assume "Okajima" is the girl's name. So why would someone write her name, a date, and the building she lived in (if that's what it is) all at the same time? While the girl might wnat to put her name and building on the comic, why the date? {Edited to add: Maybe she put the date as a diary point, precisely because she was interned and, because of that, especially focused on the passage of time. Someone should track her down and ask.}

 

It's a mystery. My only speculation would be if she had an arrangement with the camp store to "subscribe" to the comics that came in. It might be they dated every comic and put the "code" on it (which seems to be on the same plane as the date in most examples - making me think it is a store code not anything to do with the kid), and then put the name of the kids who had reserved comics at the top.

 

If the name was put on there as a delivery address, for some sort of camp mail system, then I'd expect the building address, if that's what it was, to be next to the name not the date.

 

 

[vaillant]

@sfcityduck: Good points, especially about the penmanship. You’re absolutely right, my mother was born in 1934 and they kept teaching calligraphy in school also here in Italy, I believe up to the early 1960s.

[sfcityduck]

[i think you missed these...

And a couple of honest questions. Since the books from this collection obviously have different markings from the war years versus those from later, and since it is commonly accepted that the OO was in the internment camps, what problem are you having with calling them "camp-coded" Okajimas? Are we committing some PC offense? Or are you just concerned that the implication of calling them camp-coded might be perpetrating some fraud on the collecting community?

 

I am concerned with historical accuracy. Calling that writing "camp coding" implies it was done by the camp. Whether or not those books were obtained by the girl while in a camp is going to be a function of date, not what's written on the books themselves (e.g., some books without "coding" may be from when she was interned). If the kid wrote the date, her name, and address on the books, how is that "camp coding"? Not that it is relevant if what is cool about the books is the mere fact she acquired them while interned.

 

I am very interested in the history of the internment of Americans of Japanese descent during WWII because I collect the art of a prominent artist who was interned during the War.

 

It is also a fascinating historical moment, and one that led to a lot of contradictions. For example, only Japanese-Americans who live west of the Mississippi were sent to camps. So the artist I collect's sone was able to escape the camps because he was admitted to go to college in St. Louis. But, some of the Japanese-Americans from places like Los Angeles were sent to camps east of the Mississippi. Thus, for example, George Takei was interned in Arkansas while any Japanese-Americans living in that state or anywhere east of the MIssissippi weren't locked up. And, that's an amanzing contradiction that ignores the whole racist aspect that led Italian-Americans and German-Americans to avoid any threat of internment.

 

 

[MrBedrock]

[i think you missed these...

And a couple of honest questions. Since the books from this collection obviously have different markings from the war years versus those from later, and since it is commonly accepted that the OO was in the internment camps, what problem are you having with calling them "camp-coded" Okajimas? Are we committing some PC offense? Or are you just concerned that the implication of calling them camp-coded might be perpetrating some fraud on the collecting community?

 

I am concerned with historical accuracy. Calling that writing "camp coding" implies it was done by the camp. Whether or not those books were obtained by the girl while in a camp is going to be a function of date, not what's written on the books themselves (e.g., some books without "coding" may be from when she was interned). If the kid wrote the date, her name, and address on the books, how is that "camp coding"? Not that it is relevant if what is cool about the books is the mere fact she acquired them while interned.

 

I am very interested in the history of the internment of Americans of Japanese descent during WWII because I collect the art of a prominent artist who was interned during the War.

 

It is also a fascinating historical moment, and one that led to a lot of contradictions. (For example, only Japanese-Americans who live west of the Mississippi were sent to camps. So the artist I collect's sone was able to escape the camps because he was admitted to go to college in St. Louis. But, some of the Japanese-Americans from places like Los Angeles were sent to camps east of the Mississippi. Thus, for example, George Takei was interned in Arkansas while any Japanese-Americans living in that state or anywhere east of the MIssissippi weren't locked up. And, that's an amanzing contradiction that ignores the whole racist aspect that led Italian-Americans and German-Americans to avoid any threat of internment.

 

We called them camp-coded because books from the war years have a different coding then books from later in the collection. You inferred that the camp coded them. We implied that they were coded while she was at the camp. But we do assume that someone other than her coded them. Why? Many reasons, some stated earlier. But here's a big one. If she wrote all that info on the early books why would she stop later? Why don't all of her books have writing all over them? One reason could be that she was in a camp and wanted to identify her books so others wouldn't take them from her. But that would mean that she did that at the camp. And since we call the collection the Okajimas we might call that a camp-coded Okajima. Another could be that she just grew out of it after she left the camp. So after she left the camp she quit writing all over her comics. We might call those early books camp-coded.

 

 

[originalisbest]

My one Okajima specimen (a Capt Marvel Jr.) is "camp coded" but it's in storage at the moment, else I'd share a scan.

[skypinkblu]

I have 3 or maybe 4, but they are also in storage. This is the only pedigree that ever really interested me, it's fascinating...when I went to school, interment camps were never mentioned in history class. It was not till my daughter had to read Snow Falling on Cedars that I knew anything about them...(great book, if you have not read it)

 

This is a wonderful thread...thank you all for inferring, implying and assuming:)

 

Much better to read than anything I've seen lately.

 

Please continue the debate