DiceX Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 Thanks for the other info above, and here's a pic of this defect. Sounds like it could be an extreme case of the bindery tear phenom you describe, where the cutting process actually rips off a piece of the book: Could be. Or even a double cut. But I don't know how it could get a double cut. Is it possible it was something post production? Can it be confirmed that this defect was on the original newsstands? I'd bet they were, but you never know. I remember back in the old days of the LP. A local retail store would have discounted LP's that had similar corner cuts to note which ones were on sale. Is it possible that delers/drug stores used to cut the corners of the old books when they were discounted for liquidation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggy Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Where's the answer to my question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceX Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 Where's the answer to my question? I'm workin on it. Do you want the right answer, or just an answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggy Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Where's the answer to my question? I'm workin on it. Do you want the right answer, or just an answer? I want a logical answer. Why the hell would a blade be doing there anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 This thread is every bit as good as I hoped it would be. Thanks DiceX and everyone else who is contributing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUNYHUMAN Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Love this post Dice, very,very informative!!! that's what so great about this hobby ,when you think you seen it all or know quite a bit ,there's always more to learn & see . It's a hobby "passion'" with alot of depth!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyStaple Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 This is exactly the kind of thread that finally had me join, the need to learn. Thanks all for the info. I was curious about the reasons for 'chipping' and thought my 2 cents could leave some insight. I work with sheet steel, and when a die cutter is not sharp or excessive clearance has developed, the steel will look the same way as the picture with the white cover, but we call it burrs or burring. This can also develop from the steel, or in this case the finished surface of the paper not allowing a clean break, most likely from weak wolven fibres or layering. Anyway my 2 cents, thanks and look forward to contributing on the boards. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Welcome to the Boards! I hate rusty staples btw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyStaple Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Thanks! And great, my first post has people already thinking of things they hate! Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE_BEYONDER Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 WELCOME TO THE BOARDS!!! I hate rusty staples as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Man, I hope that's not your eBay name!!! seriously, welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyStaple Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I figured LooseCenterfold wasn't appropriate. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I figured LooseCenterfold wasn't appropriate. Bill I dunno - I think it's a toss-up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbanner Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 How about those little bindery tears on the bottom open edge of bronze age books where there's often "extra paper" on the cover and interior pages, but the piece is still attached? Bindery tears are easy. It's just that...a tear, usually on the folded corner, when the book is cut. The spine is harder to cut than the other area of the page, due to the fact that is where the paper is folded. When the blade cuts, the book has a tendancy to pull away from the blade in the spine. Because of this, the paper will often tear at that point. Sometimes the book will pull away enough to cause extra paper to appear at the tips. Other times the blade just isn't set to cut deep enough and will fall just short of cutting all the way through the book in the spine. The book will tear to separate from the sliver that was trimmed away. Here's a close-up. Can anyone comment on how CGC treats this production defect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbanner Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Thanks for the other info above, and here's a pic of this defect. Sounds like it could be an extreme case of the bindery tear phenom you describe, where the cutting process actually rips off a piece of the book: Could be. Or even a double cut. But I don't know how it could get a double cut. Is it possible it was something post production? Can it be confirmed that this defect was on the original newsstands? I'd bet they were, but you never know. I remember back in the old days of the LP. A local retail store would have discounted LP's that had similar corner cuts to note which ones were on sale. Is it possible that delers/drug stores used to cut the corners of the old books when they were discounted for liquidation? I don't think it's a post-production defect, and from the grade on this Heritage book with the same problem, I'm guessing CGC agrees with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Thanks for the other info above, and here's a pic of this defect. Sounds like it could be an extreme case of the bindery tear phenom you describe, where the cutting process actually rips off a piece of the book: Could be. Or even a double cut. But I don't know how it could get a double cut. Is it possible it was something post production? Can it be confirmed that this defect was on the original newsstands? I'd bet they were, but you never know. I remember back in the old days of the LP. A local retail store would have discounted LP's that had similar corner cuts to note which ones were on sale. Is it possible that delers/drug stores used to cut the corners of the old books when they were discounted for liquidation? I don't think it's a post-production defect, and from the grade on this Heritage book with the same problem, I'm guessing CGC agrees with me. DB, I disagree. I believe it is definitely a post production cut, and I have seen many like this. I think it's a variation on the "return to distributor" cut that many retailers did upon return of unsold copies. What you have with the Heritage Cap book (Hitler cover) is a classic example of the "Golden Age exemption". divad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbanner Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 DB, I disagree. I believe it is definitely a post production cut, and I have seen many like this. I think it's a variation on the "return to distributor" cut that many retailers did upon return of unsold copies. What you have with the Heritage Cap book (Hitler cover) is a classic example of the "Golden Age exemption". divad No, I'm pretty convinced now that it is definitely a production-related defect. CGC may be more lenient on Golden Age books, but I would be shocked if they didn't consider this a production-related defect when assigning that book a grade of 7.0/7.5 (resub). In fact, it's quite similar to the little corner chipping defect I pictured above for bronze age books, only the pieces are completed detached instead of hanging on by a thread (although I've seen plenty of bronze age books where the pieces are detached). Do you collect Golden Age Timelys? What kinds of books have you "seen many like this" on? Timely/Steve - what say ye on this matter of much import - production related or no?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceX Posted July 6, 2004 Author Share Posted July 6, 2004 Thanks for the other info above, and here's a pic of this defect. Sounds like it could be an extreme case of the bindery tear phenom you describe, where the cutting process actually rips off a piece of the book: Could be. Or even a double cut. But I don't know how it could get a double cut. Is it possible it was something post production? Can it be confirmed that this defect was on the original newsstands? I'd bet they were, but you never know. I remember back in the old days of the LP. A local retail store would have discounted LP's that had similar corner cuts to note which ones were on sale. Is it possible that delers/drug stores used to cut the corners of the old books when they were discounted for liquidation? I don't think it's a post-production defect, and from the grade on this Heritage book with the same problem, I'm guessing CGC agrees with me. This cut... I believe could be production related. I'd have to look at it through a loupe to have a better guess...but it is a possible cut due to it looks like it rolled away from the blade during the cut. This one... And the one you listed in the auction link, I don't believe could have possibly been production related. I have no idea how that could have happened. I lean towards retailer return or discount book. But that's just an educated guess. There is only one cut. One chance at a miscut on each side. This is a secondary cut, and there is nothing in the production line that would have done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceX Posted July 6, 2004 Author Share Posted July 6, 2004 Looking at this one again, it could possibly be a large tear on the corner. If that is the case, it's possible it could be production related. If it's a smooth cut like the auction link, I don't think so. I think that one would be post production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 DB, I wish I collected Golden Age Timelys! - no direct experience with these. But I agree with Dice, the missing Cap corner looks deliberate, not as you are describing in the example here. I have seen this on many Silver Age Marvels, none of which I have scans to share. However, I have not seen the defect on any direct market (Bronze or later) books. It wouldn't be the first time I was shocked by something CGC did. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
