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Q&A Comic Production Flaws
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674 posts in this topic

Anyone know if 2 small blisters on a modern comic about the size of an eraser head has any effect on the grade?  These are due to too much heat during the press run from the heatset oven to dry the ink.  

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On 3/12/2017 at 7:36 AM, Incredible Comics said:

Hi, I'm not sure if anyone's in here now as I saw this was started in 2004. Hello if so. I have a question I'd like to ask someone about staple positions if anyone can help. I'm new, obviously! 

Thanks, Ben Wolff

Stapling was done by hand, usually women did this job by hand using a foot pedal and sitting down, so the book could be misaligned and then stapled cause someone wasn't paying attention.  

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On 2/18/2017 at 11:54 AM, GlennSimpson said:

Not to digress, but I watched several YouTube videos by a guy who took the viewers through grading, and he often referred to "maximum grade for a book with this flaw", which I thought was very helpful, but I don't see anybody else referring to that.  Thoughts?

I am not familiar with this video but it sounds like misinformation to me. There is no rule book for maximum grade. All these questions for maximum grade with a specific flaw cannot be definitively answered. Anybody that tells you the highest grade for a flaw, should qualify his statement with 'In My Experience'. It is only an opinion, not fact.

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2 hours ago, Kevin76 said:

Anyone know if 2 small blisters on a modern comic about the size of an eraser head has any effect on the grade?  These are due to too much heat during the press run from the heatset oven to dry the ink.  

Is it an Iron man #1?

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15 minutes ago, Kevin76 said:

no  JSA classified 1 AH cover

I have seen this issue with a lot of the 68 books, especially IM #1 and the graders take that into account when grading the book.

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1 hour ago, joeypost said:

I have seen this issue with a lot of the 68 books, especially IM #1 and the graders take that into account when grading the book.

Found it at a show over the weekend, condition is amazing, 9.8 quality but then I found the 2 small blisters on the back cover was like "#&^%&@!!!! 

Edited by Kevin76
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Questions:

1. How long does it take for CGC to learn about production flaws on books that were recently released?

2. Does that knowledge affect their grading decision? If so, how?

For instance, on a recent book, it looks like the entire print run was damaged on the press. I've spoken with a few different sources about it and have seen it on comics sourced from various vendors across the US.

I don't know if modern presses even have roller pins, but it looks like some sort of mechanical damage occurred and caused a small, streaking indentation with varying degrees of color loss. I don't see how any of them will pass as 9.8.

 

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18 hours ago, newshane said:

Questions:

1. How long does it take for CGC to learn about production flaws on books that were recently released?

2. Does that knowledge affect their grading decision? If so, how?

For instance, on a recent book, it looks like the entire print run was damaged on the press. I've spoken with a few different sources about it and have seen it on comics sourced from various vendors across the US.

I don't know if modern presses even have roller pins, but it looks like some sort of mechanical damage occurred and caused a small, streaking indentation with varying degrees of color loss. I don't see how any of them will pass as 9.8.

 

Answer to Question #1 

This is where having a background in printing comes into play, "production flaws" don't suddenly "become released" pre se, it's mainly due to something happening while the press is running and books are saved, skidded and shipped to Diamond with bad quality and all. Comics are high quality and it's considered "commercial printing" much like HQ magazines...You're not going to pick up a copy of Men's Health and find that the register is so bad, you can't even read it.  

Answer Question #2 

It really depends on how bad the defect is. I've saw a green label on a Spawn 1 because the cover had no black ink. While a missing staple on an ASM 40 got a blue label 9.2. 

"I don't know if modern presses even have roller pins"  

They aren't called roller pins, they are called "folder pins"  and they are usually found on Heatset web press. I work on press called "Goss C700"  Google images for that.  

Comics these days are usually printed on sheet fed presses. They are fed sheet by sheet, one at a time, printed, folded, trimmed and stacked on the other side all in one go with no extra equipment needed.   

   

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2 hours ago, Kevin76 said:

Answer to Question #1 

This is where having a background in printing comes into play, "production flaws" don't suddenly "become released" pre se, it's mainly due to something happening while the press is running and books are saved, skidded and shipped to Diamond with bad quality and all. Comics are high quality and it's considered "commercial printing" much like HQ magazines...You're not going to pick up a copy of Men's Health and find that the register is so bad, you can't even read it.  

Answer Question #2 

It really depends on how bad the defect is. I've saw a green label on a Spawn 1 because the cover had no black ink. While a missing staple on an ASM 40 got a blue label 9.2. 

"I don't know if modern presses even have roller pins"  

They aren't called roller pins, they are called "folder pins"  and they are usually found on Heatset web press. I work on press called "Goss C700"  Google images for that.  

Comics these days are usually printed on sheet fed presses. They are fed sheet by sheet, one at a time, printed, folded, trimmed and stacked on the other side all in one go with no extra equipment needed.   

   

 

Thanks for the insight Kevin! I'm somewhat familiar with the web press they used while I was in the newspaper business. While I worked in the press room at one point, I never operated the press itself. Back in the late 90s, I used to perform CMYK color adjustments to images before they would enter the plate process. That's about the limit of my knowledge.

Perhaps my grammar was poor, but I didn't mean to say "production flaws become released." I was talking about production flaws on a book that was recently released. How does CGC learn about these issues and what part do they play in grading? Kind of like what happened with Wolverine 35. It seemed like CGC was willing to overlook a production flaw in handing out 9.8s...at least in a few instances, until more perfect books came to light.

If you wouldn't mind, take a look at the picture. You'll see the arrow pointing to the color loss. It's hard to capture in photos, but you might be able to see the "indentation" to which I'm referring...basically a straight and narrow "scratch" that made contact with the book in a few places. I've placed a square around the area where it shows up best.

I'm sorry that's the best I can do, but based on the photos...what do you think happened and how harshly would the CGC treat it? After personally viewing and handling several examples, a well-known expert told me he was more concerned with the color loss than the "indentation" left by whatever part of the machine did the damage.

Thoughts?

deferct.jpg

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6 hours ago, newshane said:

 

Thanks for the insight Kevin! I'm somewhat familiar with the web press they used while I was in the newspaper business. While I worked in the press room at one point, I never operated the press itself. Back in the late 90s, I used to perform CMYK color adjustments to images before they would enter the plate process. That's about the limit of my knowledge.

Perhaps my grammar was poor, but I didn't mean to say "production flaws become released." I was talking about production flaws on a book that was recently released. How does CGC learn about these issues and what part do they play in grading? Kind of like what happened with Wolverine 35. It seemed like CGC was willing to overlook a production flaw in handing out 9.8s...at least in a few instances, until more perfect books came to light.

If you wouldn't mind, take a look at the picture. You'll see the arrow pointing to the color loss. It's hard to capture in photos, but you might be able to see the "indentation" to which I'm referring...basically a straight and narrow "scratch" that made contact with the book in a few places. I've placed a square around the area where it shows up best.

I'm sorry that's the best I can do, but based on the photos...what do you think happened and how harshly would the CGC treat it? After personally viewing and handling several examples, a well-known expert told me he was more concerned with the color loss than the "indentation" left by whatever part of the machine did the damage.

Thoughts?

deferct.jpg

You'd have to ask CGC how they would grade that.

Production flaws are like saying "I hear a noise in my car" What's causing it?  

It really could be anything and the only way to know where it's coming from is to be working on the press, and since I wasn't there working on the press when they printed the book. I have no clue.  Wolverine 35 could have been tearing from a belt, maybe something going on with the folder?  Only the pressman knows and I'm 100% certain, he didn't collect comics :) 

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On 7/6/2017 at 1:31 PM, newshane said:

Questions:

1. How long does it take for CGC to learn about production flaws on books that were recently released?

2. Does that knowledge affect their grading decision? If so, how?

 

I don't think your question can readily be answered by anyone here. Even if you put this question in the ASK CGC thread, I really doubt it would be answered because I don't think there is an answer. It simply depends on how many they see. My only suggestion would be to submit your book in a pre screen to protect yourself. Submitting multiple copies of the same book with the same flaw would help.

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I've had this comic for years and I've been thinking of subbing it to see how CGC handled it. Would this be a green label with a notation if subbed to CGC? What note would they put? I assume it was printed without the black ink. I haven't seen another another that I remember with a missing color like this. Anyone have more insight/info into how this happened and would be handled?  If this should be in another forum, let me know. Thanks!

Bill

 

IMG_20170822_172403138.jpg

IMG_20170822_172418157.jpg

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1 hour ago, sorb3t said:

I've had this comic for years and I've been thinking of subbing it to see how CGC handled it. Would this be a green label with a notation if subbed to CGC? What note would they put? I assume it was printed without the black ink. I haven't seen another another that I remember with a missing color like this. Anyone have more insight/info into how this happened and would be handled?  If this should be in another forum, let me know. Thanks!

 

Maybe this will help.....

 

CaptainMarvel#26.jpg

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3 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Maybe this will help.....

 

CaptainMarvel#26.jpg

It does help, thanks! Now I wonder if the printing error contributed to it being an 8.5 or if it was graded solely on it's condition and the error did not effect grade.

Also, cool book! Wanna trade? :nyah:

Edited by sorb3t
spelling error
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9 hours ago, sorb3t said:

It does help, thanks! Now I wonder if the printing error contributed to it being an 8.5 or if it was graded solely on it's condition and the error did not effect grade.

Also, cool book! Wanna trade? :nyah:

Not sure, I don't have the notes, but I suspect the 'error' did not affect the grade. BTW, I had to step up to the plate in auction to get this, it does sell for a premium. Thanks, it is a cool book. I think you have a cool book also and it is worth submitting.

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