Jayman Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Here is something I've always wondered what the cause was. I have commonly noticed on many of my books these rectangular indents on the cover. Usually around the staple area on either the top or bottom staple. Are these indents left from the book being stapled or perhaps from being folded? Dice, Anyone...thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 does production flaws affect the grading of comics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Well the grading process would be the same only notations would be made denoting the production flaws/differences i.e. missing staple, missing or wrong text, double cover, etc. What would change would be the price paid for certain production errors such as a double cover as some find these books more desirable. BTW: Welcome To The Boards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Anyone know anything about those rectangular indents on the cover in my above post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Anyone know anything about those rectangular indents on the cover in my above post? nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceX Posted May 6, 2005 Author Share Posted May 6, 2005 Anyone know anything about those rectangular indents on the cover in my above post? I have books with them too. Must be production related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Anyone know anything about those rectangular indents on the cover in my above post? I have books with them too. Must be production related. C'mon, Dice...I was hoping for a little bit better explanation than that! I was thinking, if not from being stapled, it might be from some king of grip that pulls the book along after being folded. This again is just a guess on my part. Any printer/production people out there who might know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Comics Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 You might want to add this flaw... Over in MODERN; thread titled Fantastic Four #526, its about crease along spine and wrinkled edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 There is also the theory that chipping occurs from tiny tears that form from the bent overflash that Marvels had back in the day. As the tears get bigger, pieces come off. This likely happens on some books with overflash, but I have seen so many books that don't have overflash that still have chipping, that this can't explain how the chips happened on every book. I agree, the majority of MC occurs along the right edge of the book where there is no overflash, so I don't know how much water this theory holds. There's also the possibility the ink layer was somewhat brittle, or had other properties that caused the "crack" the led to the chip, like putting fingernail polish on a piece of paper and trying to cut it with a scissors... Here's a question I've been meaning to ask Dice and/or Povertyrow but kept forgetting to ask. What kind of inks were used on comic covers back in the 1960s? Was the ink type used on cover stock different from the ink type used on interior paper stock? What was the composition of the ink? I have been trying to figure out what the pH levels were on inks used back then to see whether they contribute to the acidity of the high-lignin-content newsprint used for the interior paper. Also, was alum rosin sizing used on cover stock AND interior paper, or was some other kind of sizing used for each? I know I have read that alum rosin sizing was used for some kinds of paper stock but can't remember whether it was cover stock, interior paper stock, or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Something I've always wondered in regards to nicely preserved comics... Has anyone notice them aging quicker than newer comics if stored improperly? Take the Curators for instance. If I placed a 1964 Curator comic and a 1977 comic, both with white, identical pages, in a humid closet for a year whould the Curator pages start yellowing quicker due to it's age? Or to even use a more extreme example...replace the Curator with a GA Mile High... Jim The quality of paper used is more relevant than the age of the comic. Early GA DCs were printed on excellent paper stock. Other GA publishers (such as Timely, Fox, and Quality) used inferior paper stock. Most of the books printed in the 1950s and early 1960s used terrible quality paper stock. A GA Edgar Church DC book that was printed on excellent paper stock will not degrade as rapidly in identical storage conditions as an early Marvel silver age book, a 50s EC book, or a GA Timely or Fox book that was printed on poor paper stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvis Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Marvel Chipping has been blamed on dull blades when the book was trimmed. I'm skeptical of this because a dull blade would possibly only give a jagged edge, sort of like what you see as a common problem on Amazing Spider-Man #300. I'd think a more likely possiblity would be poor paper quality that gets flaky on the edges as time and oxygen break down the fibers. The edges of this particular paper would be more likely to flake. I could be completely wrong, but I think it's a possiblity. Borock may have a better soloution this defect because of his experience with looking at so many examples of it. While I have no way of proving my idea...I'd need to see some solid proof before I believe the dull blade theory. I have a hard time believing that the bindery blade was dull for 15-20 years. If it was possible to trace the paper down to the mill, I'd bet the paper on all these chipped books came from the same source. This is a hard one to answer because it is something that takes time to become evident, and can't be seen immediately. Who knows...In 20 years when we have Marvel Chipping on all the ASM 300's and Hulk 340's, we may have the question answered. Believe it or not, I recently duplicated marvel chipping. I was using a simple paper cutter to cut a 40 page legal sized document to standard 8.5X11 size. The paper cutter had a dull blade and the document wound up with what looked exactly like marvel chipping. The only problem with this is that this chipping went through the entire 40 pages. As far as I know, Marvel chipping only affects the cover. The question is, were the covers cut seperately and then later on added to the pulp pages? Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Marvel Chipping has been blamed on dull blades when the book was trimmed. I'm skeptical of this because a dull blade would possibly only give a jagged edge, sort of like what you see as a common problem on Amazing Spider-Man #300. I'd think a more likely possiblity would be poor paper quality that gets flaky on the edges as time and oxygen break down the fibers. The edges of this particular paper would be more likely to flake. I could be completely wrong, but I think it's a possiblity. Borock may have a better soloution this defect because of his experience with looking at so many examples of it. While I have no way of proving my idea...I'd need to see some solid proof before I believe the dull blade theory. I have a hard time believing that the bindery blade was dull for 15-20 years. If it was possible to trace the paper down to the mill, I'd bet the paper on all these chipped books came from the same source. This is a hard one to answer because it is something that takes time to become evident, and can't be seen immediately. Who knows...In 20 years when we have Marvel Chipping on all the ASM 300's and Hulk 340's, we may have the question answered. Believe it or not, I recently duplicated marvel chipping. I was using a simple paper cutter to cut a 40 page legal sized document to standard 8.5X11 size. The paper cutter had a dull blade and the document wound up with what looked exactly like marvel chipping. The only problem with this is that this chipping went through the entire 40 pages. As far as I know, Marvel chipping only affects the cover. The question is, were the covers cut seperately and then later on added to the pulp pages? Anyone know? No, but the cover paper was lesser quality stock than the interiors. Even if the blades weren't all that dull, it could cause the cover paper to tear while the interior pages (thicker, stronger newsprint stock) could still be cut cleanly. If you look closely at the edges of a lot of Marvel comics printed in the 1960s, there will often be edge "burrs" along the leading edge of the book. The edge burrs that you see on interior page edges typically match those you see on the edges of the covers. This leads me to conclude that the covers and interiors were cut together -- collated, stapled, folded, then cut. If this had happened in any other order, miscuts (book not cut squarely) would only show up on half of the book and the edge burrs wouldn't match up on the covers and interiors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Marvel Chipping has been blamed on dull blades when the book was trimmed. I'm skeptical of this because a dull blade would possibly only give a jagged edge, sort of like what you see as a common problem on Amazing Spider-Man #300. I'd think a more likely possiblity would be poor paper quality that gets flaky on the edges as time and oxygen break down the fibers. The edges of this particular paper would be more likely to flake. I could be completely wrong, but I think it's a possiblity. Borock may have a better soloution this defect because of his experience with looking at so many examples of it. While I have no way of proving my idea...I'd need to see some solid proof before I believe the dull blade theory. I have a hard time believing that the bindery blade was dull for 15-20 years. If it was possible to trace the paper down to the mill, I'd bet the paper on all these chipped books came from the same source. This is a hard one to answer because it is something that takes time to become evident, and can't be seen immediately. Who knows...In 20 years when we have Marvel Chipping on all the ASM 300's and Hulk 340's, we may have the question answered. <img src="http://boards.collectors-society.com/images//graemlins/893frustrated.gif" alt="" /> Believe it or not, I recently duplicated marvel chipping. I was using a simple paper cutter to cut a 40 page legal sized document to standard 8.5X11 size. The paper cutter had a dull blade and the document wound up with what looked exactly like marvel chipping. The only problem with this is that this chipping went through the entire 40 pages. As far as I know, Marvel chipping only affects the cover. The question is, were the covers cut seperately and then later on added to the pulp pages? Anyone know? No, but the cover paper was lesser quality stock than the interiors. Even if the blades weren't all that dull, it could cause the cover paper to tear while the interior pages (thicker, stronger newsprint stock) could still be cut cleanly. If you look closely at the edges of a lot of Marvel comics printed in the 1960s, there will often be edge "burrs" along the leading edge of the book. The edge burrs that you see on interior page edges typically match those you see on the edges of the covers. This leads me to conclude that the covers and interiors were cut together -- collated, stapled, folded, then cut. If this had happened in any other order, miscuts (book not cut squarely) would only show up on half of the book and the edge burrs wouldn't match up on the covers and interiors. Yes, see post #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjum12 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 I have a couple of questions.These may have been answered already,if so I apologize.Almost all of the silver age books that I've seen have a beveled cut on the right side of the comic as opposed to a flat edge like on the pages of a book.The bevel extends from the first page to the center and from the back page to the center.The bevel appears to be more pronounced at the top off the comic than at the bottom.I don't understand how this bevel could be present unless the body of the comic is(was) cut flat and THEN folded.Books that are amateurly trimmed with a paper cutter exhibit the flat edge that one would associate with a book rather than the beveled edge that is normally present.I'm confused. My second question involves the "Big Apple" copy of Avengers # 16 that I picked up a couple of years ago.Next to the bottom staple are two small holes that are the same distance apart as the length of the staple that go entirely through to the centerfold of the book.Could these two holes have been caused by a "maverick" staple that somehow got jammed in the stapling equipment and came out two staples at the same time.There is no sign of the second set of (staple?) holes having closed at the centerfold,the holes just stop at the centerfold.thanks for your time.Merry Christmas and GOD BLESS.... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) p.s. love this thread !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjum12 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 I would guess that at one time your magazine was on the top of a bundle of multiple copies that then had a bundle of another type of publication that was stapled all the way through the book placed on top of THAT bundle in the back of a distributor truck.The weight of the top bundle(different books) would leave the staple indention on the top copy of the bottom bundle.GOD BLESS... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh-migration Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) I have a couple books where half of one of the staples didn't go all of the way through the book. It made it most of the way, but stopped short and didn't pierce the centerfold. Both are Uncanny X-Men in the 220-240 range. Anyone know why this might happen? I can't imagine what would stop one of the ends from going through the last few pages while the other made it through. Could the book have moved during stapling or not been on the stapler right? Edited March 1, 2006 by jfh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COMICKINGS Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 I have a couple misprints that I have sent in to get graded just for the heck of it....here's one... I bought it off a guy that got it right from a shop back in the day. If you have any miscut books and want to sell,let me know thanks! Joey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRINTMASTER-migration Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 HEYS GUYS, I WORKED IN PRINTING FOR 16 YEARS AND WORKED WITH COMICS ALSO. THE BLADE IS NOT DULL, A CUTTER BLADE GOES RIGHT TO LEFT IN MOST CASES. WHEN IT IS ENGAGED TO COME DOWN. THERE IS A PRESSURE PLATE THAT COMES DOWN FIRST. TO HELP HOLD THE PAPER IN PLACE. IF THE USER PUTS TO MANY COMICS /BOOKS/PAPER IN THE CUTTER AND IT IS NOT VERY TIGHT UP AGIAST THE BACK / JOGGED DOWN CORRECT. WHEN THE BLADE ENGAGES THE PRESSURE PLATE COMES DOWN AND IF THERES TO MUSH PAPER THE PAPER WILL SLIP A LITTLE TO THE LEFT AS THE PRESSURE PLATE AND BLADE ENGAGE. THE SLIP MAYBE ONLY A CM OR 2 BUT IT MAKES THE BORDER OF THE COMIC SOMETIMES CHIP AND LEFT EDGE/ CUT THE BOTTOM PART OF THE COMIC JUST A LITTLE CROOKED. THIS IS ALL A BUNCH OF TECH GARBAGE BUT IS A COMBO. IF A BLADE IS DULL , AND THE USER PUTS TO MANY PAGES IN THE CUTTER AND THEN DOESNT JOG THE COMICS OR MAKE SURE HIS BACK GAUGE HAS A NICE FIT THE PAPER WILL SLIP. THE PRESSURE BLADE WOULD CRUSH YOUR HAND. SO THINK ABOUT THE PRESSURE ON THE PAPER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell F Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Look to the left of your A key and press the Caps Lock key. Other than that, welcome to the boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timulty Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Welcome PrintMaster. You expertise will be especially needed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
