An Open Letter to PayPal
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The mod over at the MEGO forums posted this about a run-in with a scammer and how poorly PayPal is handling the matter. I felt it was important to post this to make this community aware of the situation, especially because it seems to counter PayPal's "protection" claims. Here's a link and below is the copy and paste:

 

An Open Letter to PayPal

 

I wrote this letter to PayPal president David Marcus yesterday, emailed and faxed it. Mr Marcus has said and done some impressive things lately, so after beating my head against the wall with the less than great customer service, I had no alternative.

 

Dear Mr. David Marcus

 

Ref ID Case PP-002-074-318-199

 

Last October I was the victim of mail fraud when a seller sent me a hand made item claiming it was an original toy from the 1970s. It was an upsetting time; I’d never been the victim of this kind of crime.

 

I felt reassured by one thing; I’d paid in him via PayPal and not Western Union as he initially demanded. Sending him money via PayPal felt better, not the gamble that a wire transfer implied.

 

Within minutes of opening the parcel, I filed a charge back. I had used my American Express card for half of the transaction, so I also called them. On their behest, I express shipped (at my expense) the item back to the seller. Triple boxing it, the exterior being an Amazon box, because everyone likes a treat from Amazon.

 

He signed for it the next day but fought me on PayPal, claiming I was lying.

 

PayPal asked for additional information and even affidavits from outside sources, lucky for me I’ve got some contacts in my 25 years of writing. I sent these experts photos of the (laughably) fake item and got the necessary testimony within 24 hours.

 

Eventually, PayPal decided in my favor and all of my money was returned. American Express was credited, so I dropped my chargeback with them as well. It was the first time I’d been on the receiving end of PayPal’s good nature.

 

When that buyer in Mexico claimed he never got my $400 figure, PayPal sided with him, the fact that he later sent me an email saying “ja ja ja ja I have your toy, loser” meant nothing to PayPal. When that dealer claimed I sent him an item with reproduction parts, you also sided with him, the fact that he listed the exact item the next month as “100% original” didn’t help me get my money back.

 

These incidents did not warm me to PayPal but I thought, as a buyer the odds were in my favor.

 

So imagine my surprise when Mr D (that’s what I call the seller) then claimed that he didn’t receive the parcel and surprisingly, PayPal sided with him.

 

How was I, the former victor, in all of this notified? Why, by my money being removed and my account locked.

 

Despite me having the signature of receipt from UPS PayPal took Mr D’s word that the item was not present in the package. I had no defense, PayPal wouldn’t let me defend myself, and he won.

 

So, I called Mr D at his home and told him that I was going to press charges with his local PD and the USPS (which I did). He waffled at first that he didn’t get the box and then later admitted he had it but the contents had been destroyed/went missing. I couldn’t get a real answer out of him but the conversation made him realize that I wasn’t going to go away and he dropped the claim on PayPal.

 

So is it over? Not a chance.

 

I’m still locked out with all my money gone. That money was made by doing the honest thing, you know, sending people exactly what they pay for but apparently, that doesn’t matter, PayPal sided with the guy who committed the mail fraud.

 

By the way, I can no longer honor my obligations on eBay or pay my hosting fees for my website. I’m forced to borrow money from a friend’s PayPal right now (I won’t reveal his name).

 

I also lost a day of work on hold with PayPal, that’s money I can’t get back and it sure was eye opening. I feel it important to refer to my opening statement; I was the victim of mail fraud, not the perpetrator.

 

The resolution of this two hour call was whenever Mr D pays back the money; I can have my account back. Well, he’s certainly a man of his word; forgive me if I don’t put an ounce of hope into that.

 

Here are the problems I have with this Mr. Marcus

 

1) You’re siding with someone who committed mail fraud. If I had just proceeded with my credit card company and not you, they’d have ruled in my favor. I wouldn't be tethered to this person, it simply would be over. That’s how it works, you don’t punish the person who did everything right, you stick to your guns.

 

2) I paid a large sum for a fake item, I would value it at about twenty dollars and even then, I’m being kind. That was my argument and you initially ruled in my favor. So even if Mr D is honest in saying it got damaged/lost, he’s not out anywhere near the money he attempted to defraud me of. He didn’t have an item of any tangible value; this was and still is a scam.

 

3) PayPal did not include me in the counter claim; it simply took my money and sided with him despite our history I had to work and provide evidence when I was doing the accusing.

 

I provided evidence all over again and got curt, nothing replies from Sita, Samantha, Todd and whatever other revolving customer service drones. Not even a dedicated person to the case!

 

Why should I trust an institution that has such an invisible wall around its customer service? You have people’s money; you can’t be just this shadow that lurks in the darkness. That’s fundamentally wrong.

 

 

4) It’s obvious to me that Mr D knows how to work your system pretty good and he’s likely not alone. Despite all your guarantees and me doing everything correctly, you still just took his word over all my evidence to the contrary. This gives me zero confidence in using your service in the future.

 

 

Last year, I launched my own company, I won’t tell you its name because I’m honestly afraid PayPal will empty its accounts. It’s growing at an encouraging pace and I’m excited but I’ll tell you the one change I’m going to make in 2013 is that I’m going to start accepting credit cards and no longer offer PayPal.

 

You simply don’t work and the more people that I can warn about this, the better.

 

I’m going to encourage my employer to discontinue PayPal on their website and I’m going to publish this letter via my websites, blogs and the multitude of forums I am a member of about this.

 

Maybe it’ll make a difference or perhaps it will do nothing. However, if my warnings result in even a small amount of people not using your service, I’ll consider it a victory.

 

This isn’t entirely about the money, it’s about security and service, I can honestly say that your establishment provides only a façade of both of those things.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Brian H

 

 

PS Please do not send me a form response via email, I won’t read it. If you want to talk to me, you call me, I’ve earned that.

 

For everyone reading this, thank you and please pass it on via the face book, twitter and other “Add this” tags in the corner.

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Don't get Square, believe me, they are worse.

 

Absolutely no customer service when you have a problem.

 

They are fine for small transactions here and there but once you start doing volume you're in for a world of hurt getting your money. They were constantly freezing my account for stupid reviews, requesting the same info over and over again.

 

http://www.cardpaymentoptions.com/credit-card-processors/square-review/

 

 

Edited by BeachBum

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Don't get Square, believe me, they are worse.

 

Absolutely no customer service when you have a problem.

 

Good to know. I was wondering about that. I don't use it often, but was curious to how it works when a problem arises. Any other similar payment services (that works like Square) you can suggest?

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Don't get Square, believe me, they are worse.

 

Absolutely no customer service when you have a problem.

 

Good to know. I was wondering about that. I don't use it often, but was curious to how it works when a problem arises. Any other similar payment services (that works like Square) you can suggest?

 

I amended my post above with more info.

 

Right after I dropped Square I tried Intuit GoPayment for a month but ran into a big headache once I had $5000 transaction. They froze my account and asked for all kinds of info from me and the buyer. It was a headache and kind of embarrassing that I had to get the buyer involved. There was no issue with the buyer, or the buyer's CC company. The fact that the "Middle Man" processing company was asking for the buyer's phone number to speak to him directly pissed me off. Trying to coordinate the phone call was a PITA.

 

I just went straight to my bank Wells Fargo and opened a Merchant Services account, with my transactions going through Authorize.net. The first month I did have a hold since it was a new account, but all it took was a call to my account handler, a quick review over the phone, and I haven't had a problem since.

 

I do use PayPal Here as well. You have to understand I have never had a problem with PayPal in over ten years, and do a high volume monthly with them.

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I just went straight to my bank Wells Fargo and opened a Merchant Services account, with my transactions going through Authorize.net.

 

 

Do they have a way to accept payments with a smart phone if you, for example, were set up at a convention selling?

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I just went straight to my bank Wells Fargo and opened a Merchant Services account, with my transactions going through Authorize.net.

 

 

Do they have a way to accept payments with a smart phone if you, for example, were set up at a convention selling?

 

There is an Authorize.net App. There is no swipe at the moment, just a key in terminal. If there is a swipe like PayPal Here I don't know about it.

 

I use PayPal Here primarily, but I have a couple of customers that don't like, or have had issues with PayPal so I use Authorize.net for them.

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I just went straight to my bank Wells Fargo and opened a Merchant Services account, with my transactions going through Authorize.net.

 

 

Do they have a way to accept payments with a smart phone if you, for example, were set up at a convention selling?

 

There is an Authorize.net App. There is no swipe at the moment, just a key in terminal. If there is a swipe like PayPal Here I don't know about it.

 

I use PayPal Here primarily, but I have a couple of customers that don't like, or have had issues with PayPal so I use Authorize.net for them.

 

 

Good to know that there are options out there.

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I just went straight to my bank Wells Fargo and opened a Merchant Services account, with my transactions going through Authorize.net.

 

 

Do they have a way to accept payments with a smart phone if you, for example, were set up at a convention selling?

 

There is an Authorize.net App. There is no swipe at the moment, just a key in terminal. If there is a swipe like PayPal Here I don't know about it.

 

I use PayPal Here primarily, but I have a couple of customers that don't like, or have had issues with PayPal so I use Authorize.net for them.

 

 

Good to know that there are options out there.

 

The great thing about going through my bank Wells Fargo is that all transactions done by 6 PM EST are in my bank account the next business day.

 

They even have an option if you pay extra for same day deposit.

 

Plus, if I ever have an issue I can just walk into my nearby branch where everyone knows me.

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Plus, if I ever have an issue I can just walk into my nearby branch where everyone knows me.

Norm!!

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Plus, if I ever have an issue I can just walk into my nearby branch where everyone knows me.

Norm!!

 

I almost put an image of the cast of Cheers up lol

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If the card isn't present, I believe Square has a $1000 limit per month on typing in the number remotely (card not present). Also, the fee for card not present is 3.25% not 2.75%, IIRC. I'm a happy Square user in person but still stick with Paypal virtual termiinal if I have to input a card.

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WOW is right!

 

:frustrated:

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Fascinating

 

 

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I rarely get more than a few sentences into posts about Ebay or PP headaches.

 

This post had my attention from start to finish. Very well written.

 

Good luck with your new business (thumbs u

Edited by ajaxfarrell

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PayPal sided with him, the fact that he later sent me an email saying “ja ja ja ja I have your toy, loser” meant nothing to PayPal.

 

This type of behavior is grounds for being stalked, hunted and killed. (shrug)

Edited by ajaxfarrell

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Did this thread help get a response?

 

Looks like Paypal may be finally feeling the pinch...

 

I think this sums it up from the article...

 

PayPal can't afford to be complacent much longer. The field that it once monopolized is now full of competition: WePay, Square, Stripe and smartphone-based systems like Google Wallet are only a few of the up-and-coming rivals.

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Did this thread help get a response?

 

Looks like Paypal may be finally feeling the pinch...

 

Yes, and hat tip to Brian (FK) for the heads-up:

 

Big PayPal changes ahead: Frozen fund process to gain transparency

 

I hope this finally does away with the ridiculous "21 day hold" that eBay pulls on sellers!

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Did this thread help get a response?

 

Looks like Paypal may be finally feeling the pinch...

 

I think this sums it up from the article...

 

PayPal can't afford to be complacent much longer. The field that it once monopolized is now full of competition: WePay, Square, Stripe and smartphone-based systems like Google Wallet are only a few of the up-and-coming rivals.

 

It also sounds like this had something to do with lighting the fire under their feet to make the changes:

 

They are only making changes now because of a class-action suit that was filed against them by Girard Gibbs Law Firm because paypal has this notion they can violate the Electronic Fund Transfer Act (EFTA) and disregard every other law on the books all in the name of profits. They were sadly mistaken hence the changes.

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