Hey when is Silver Age going to Crash?

[*paull*]

Anyone who uses a CGC holder as a permanent storage method could be in for a rude awakening in few years.

[blowout]

It's not denigration as much as it is pity. It's too bad that the hobby for you and many others has been reduced to finding a book with one less spine crease or rounded corner.

 

One of the things wrong with the hobby right now is collectors that slam others for the way they collect. Everyone is different, so why the I'm right and you're wrong attitude?

[tth2]

Do you think it`s coincidence or luck that guys like Brulato and Schmell, who purchased a lot of their books pre-CGC, turned out to have lots of 9.4s, 9.6s and 9.8s once they got their books slabbed?

 

It's just my opinion, but I'm not sure that Doug or Tom or even a Jason Ewert are exceptionally graders above lots of other collectors.

 

Sfilosa, thanks, that supports my original point, which was that there ARE collectors who can tell the difference between a 9.2, a 9.4 and a 9.6, contrary to what Paull was saying. I was just using Doug and Tom as obvious examples because I knew they assembled a lot of their collection prior to CGC.

[sfilosa]

Projected financial condition of said company is reflected in the CURRENT stock price. Why does intel trade at 27x PE and altria trade at 11xPE? Current stock price takes into account future growth prospects and financial condition.

 

Let me clear this up, because you ACTUAL stated my point when you said:

 

PROJECTED Financial condition...... reflected in the CURRENT stock price.

 

Do you see what you are saying. PROJECTED (meaning NOT ACTUAL as in BEST GUESS) is reflected in CURRENT (meaning ACTUAL price).

 

You are paying for a price based on what someone thinks is GOING to happen.

 

And as CPA, and someone who creates budgets (proformas for those in the know), from scratch for $100's of millions of dollars worth of projects, I can assure you, THERE is a LOT of GUESSING going on.

 

Regarding the stock market being a gamble, I was able to obtain shares of probably thirty different IPO's (Initial Public Offerings) during the Dot Com craze. I made $12,000 buying Priceline when it was valued at a MARKET CAP of over $30 billion (more than the four biggest airlines it was selling tickets for).

 

Did I care that the stock was grossly overvalued? No! All I cared about was how much profit I made when I sold it after the thirty day waiting period.

 

And basically, I made the best of an OPPORTUNITY that I had. Just like Doug, Tom, Jason Ewert, etc. did. They saw an opportunity and ran with it, and it's paid off for them big time.

[tth2]

Do you think it`s coincidence or luck that guys like Brulato and Schmell, who purchased a lot of their books pre-CGC, turned out to have lots of 9.4s, 9.6s and 9.8s once they got their books slabbed?

 

I think a HUGE part of it is having the contacts to go after the big PEDIGREES and uber-high grade OO collections. I mean, it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to buy a ton of Curators and Pacific Coast books and then get high grades, but it does take the OPPORTUNITY.

 

JC, don't disagree with you that being able to amass a great collection means having access to the books in the first place. My point was that all sorts of pedigrees and great books get shoved under these guys' noses all the time, and it's no coincidence that they cherrypicked the best pedigrees. Why? Because they know how to grade, and can tell the difference between a 9.2, a 9.4 and a 9.6. Sure, you know that Curators and PC books look fantastic and stand out compared to other books, including other pedigreed books, but according to some of the other posters on this thread, such differences are too tiny to notice.

 

Put another way: Doug didn't buy up the early SA Winnipegs en masse just because SNE said they were all NM/M, because he was a good enough grader to see that many of them were mediocre at best (relatively speaking). On the other hand, he did apparently buy up huge chunks of the BA Winnipegs, because, as we're beginning to see now, they're pretty stellar.

[tth2]

It's not denigration as much as it is pity. It's too bad that the hobby for you and many others has been reduced to finding a book with one less spine crease or rounded corner.

 

One of the things wrong with the hobby right now is collectors that slam others for the way they collect. Everyone is different, so why the I'm right and you're wrong attitude?

 

[shadroch]

potential buyers probably knew the reserve would be over $1K.

 

Exactly. I was watching all of PCE's Metamorpho auctions, most of which did not meet reserve, with high bids in the hundreds. I knew Robert had a fairly high reserve in place so I didn't bother to bid.

 

I don't know how it is with Heritage auctons as I don't deal with them,but on e-bay or at live auctions,that is a foolish strategy.By bidding on books you know you aren't going to win at such events,you often bring awareness to yourself as someone looking for the book or even the type of book. Many people attend auctions or watch the bidding on e-bay trying to find buyers for their books. Some of my best deals have been as a result of losing a highly watched auction.Sure he most likely had an insane reserve,but maybe someone else had a similar book and might have reached out to you.

Just trying to pass along some experiances to those of you who choose to accept it.

[joe_collector]

My point was that all sorts of pedigrees and great books get shoved under these guys' noses all the time, and it's no coincidence that they cherrypicked the best pedigrees. Why? Because they know how to grade, and can tell the difference between a 9.2, a 9.4 and a 9.6.

 

Come on, thousands of people have grading skills better than these guys, and I'd bet there are people on here who would put them down in a grade-off. You're given the BSD's far too much credit in that area, and not enough in the "remain visibile, call dealers, keep contacts, flash money" category.

 

These guys did work hard to maintain and cultivate important dealer and collector contacts, but it's not like they're the Zen Gods of grading, and no one else can see the difference. Toss all those PC, Curator, Winnipeg, etc. Pedigree books in front of Banner, Steve B (when he was collecting), greggy, Vince W. or many on these boards, and they'd be able to tell the differences in quality in a heartbeat.

 

The key elements in the pre-CGC days was always being granted access to the very best Pedigree and original owner collections that came up. If you don't know how to grade, you're not going to get anywhere in the biz, so I'm assuming that's a given for any serious collector.

[sfilosa]

The key elements in the pre-CGC days was always being granted access to the very best Pedigree and original owner collections that came up. If you don't know how to grade, you're not going to get anywhere in the biz, so I'm assuming that's a given for any serious collector.

 

I'm mostly in agreement with you.

 

But maybe instead of the word "GRANTED" you should say "EARNED".

[joe_collector]

The key elements in the pre-CGC days was always being granted access to the very best Pedigree and original owner collections that came up. If you don't know how to grade, you're not going to get anywhere in the biz, so I'm assuming that's a given for any serious collector.

 

I'm mostly in agreement with you.

 

But maybe instead of the word "GRANTED" you should say "EARNED".

 

Good point, and I never meant to say these BSDs didn't work hard to get that high on the dealer lists.

[FlyingDonut]

Regarding CGC books being a commodity. Some people make huge amounts of money in commodites (and stocks and other easy to buy investments).

 

I won't even dignify this gross inaccuracy with a response, but you're lucky Gene isn't here.

 

What is inaccurate here?

 

1) CGC books have essentially become commodities

2) Some people make huge amounts of money in commodities

3) Some people make huge amounts of money in stocks

4) Some people make huge amounts of money in other easy to buy investments

 

of course 5) some people lose huge amounts of money in commodities

 

I simply DO NOT understand the vitriol against people who are "investing" in comics. If you understand the risk, and know what you're doing, who cares what you do. I have a portion of my investment dollar in overseas mutual funds - I think that is a hell of a lot more risky right now than in a CGC 9.8 comic.

 

Investing in a slabbed comic is NO DIFFERENT from investing in any other form of investment - there's a risk/reward curve, and you have to be able to understand the risks. If you do, who cares what you do with your money.

[joe_collector]

Investing in a slabbed comic is NO DIFFERENT from investing in any other form of investment.

 

Of course there is, the most obvious being that CGC slabs are a luxury good, that have no inherent worth, use, or equity.

 

Let's keep it simple and compare it against another investment commodity, Gold.

 

Now let's examine the potential uses of Gold:

 

Jewelry, high tech equipment and research, semiconductors, circuit boards, home electronics, and due to its inert status, it (or a Gold-based alloy) is very popular in medical research, equipment, technology and replacement, as well as providing the base in dental implants, crowns, dentures, etc., just to name a VERY few uses.

 

Now let's look at the potential uses of a CGC slab:

 

Prop up a table leg, crack open the comic to start a fire or wipe your butt. Recycle the plastic for a few cents.

 

That's one reason why similar "collectible fads" like Beany Babies and Graded Sportscard were hammered so badly, and many are virtually worthless today. Their value is 100% predicated on ethereal things like trends and hype, rather than verifiable worth, equity, and wide-scale usage in finished products that other commodities have.

 

If the economy really tanks, I'd much rather have a brick of Gold under the bed, or equity in a Blue-Chip Fortune 500 company, than a pile of plastic slabs...

 

To be totally honest, I do believe that investing in CGC comics is the same as investing in tech stocks circa 2000 or so, as the value of both is based on the exact same thing...

[FlyingDonut]

Investing in a slabbed comic is NO DIFFERENT from investing in any other form of investment.

 

Of course there is, the most obvious being that CGC slabs are a luxury good, that have no inherent worth, use, or equity.

 

Let's keep it simple and compare it against another investment commodity, Gold.

 

Now let's examine the potential uses of Gold:

 

Jewelry, high tech equipment and research, semiconductors, circuit boards, home electronics, and due to its inert status, it (or a Gold-based alloy) is very popular in medical research, equipment, technology and replacement, as well as providing the base in dental implants, crowns, dentures, etc., just to name a VERY few uses.

 

Now let's look at the potential uses of a CGC slab:

 

Prop up a table leg, crack open the comic to start a fire or wipe your butt. Recycle the plastic for a few cents.

 

That's one reason why similar "collectible fads" like Beany Babies and Graded Sportscard were hammered so badly, and many are virtually worthless today. Their value is 100% predicated on ethereal things like trends and hype, rather than verifiable worth, equity, and wide-scale usage in finished products that other commodities have.

 

If the economy really tanks, I'd much rather have a brick of Gold under the bed, or equity in a Blue-Chip Fortune 500 company, than a pile of plastic slabs...

 

To be totally honest, I do believe that investing in CGC comics is the same as investing in tech stocks circa 2000 or so, as the value of both is based on the exact same thing...

 

I'm sorry, you're just wrong here. As long as you are fully cognizant of the risks involved, investing in comics is the same as investing in anything. You're confusing real value with investment value. I have a small portion of my investment dollars in comics, because I know what I'm doing and I understand the risks involved. Investing in comics is just the same as investing in horses, for example. It is a risky investment that often loses money, but if you know what you're doing, you'll be just fine.

[joe_collector]

I'm sorry, you're just wrong here. As long as you are fully cognizant of the risks involved, investing in comics is the same as investing in anything.

 

Obviously, I vehemently disagree with the "anything" term, so let's leave it at that.

 

P.S. The Horse analogy was apt though, as if one breaks a leg early, it's dog food and glue. Maybe even a more fragile and illusionary "investment" than funny books, but the payoffs can be immense.

[FlyingDonut]

I'm sorry, you're just wrong here. As long as you are fully cognizant of the risks involved, investing in comics is the same as investing in anything.

 

Obviously, I vehemently disagree with the "anything" term, so let's leave it at that.

 

P.S. The Horse analogy was apt though, as if one breaks a leg early, it's dog food and glue. Maybe even a more fragile and illusionary "investment" than funny books, but the payoffs can be immense.

 

Well there you go. Again, as long as you understand fully the risks involved, it is a good play for your extra investment dollars.

[skybolt]

Thank goodness people starting looking at comics as an investment opportunity back 30 or 40 years ago. Otherwise, the highest rated comic book in existence would have been Alf # 15.

[joe_collector]

Thank goodness people starting looking at comics as an investment opportunity back 30 or 40 years ago.

 

What are you talking about?

 

The vast majority of high-grade comics from that era are from: Collections and Warehouse finds. A very few collectors have speculated and hoarded since the 60's. but the words "Investment" and "Collectible" really only caught on in the late-80's.

 

My father was pretty hip to collectible trends, and I can remember him having a great laugh when I told him to invest in comics during the 1970's. Back then, comics were purely reading material, and were not remotely viewed as "investment collectibles" by the general public.

 

Mass market comic book investing really caught fire in the early 90's, then we had the big crash, and then CGC brought it all back again. In terms of the general public, investing in comics is a pretty recent trend...

[skybolt]

Investing has always been a part of collecting. It's like telling the owner of a Picasso painting that his piece is absoultely beautiful, but is only worth $10. The guy will probably find the nearest trash can to get rid of it instead of it taking up all that space in his living room. That's how people in the 30's, 40's and 50's felt with their Action Comics #1 and other comic books. 99.99999% of readers disgarded their comics or trashed them once they were done reading them. If they had known that these books would have some value 30 years later and saved some, then maybe you and I wouldn't be spending thousands of dollars to own a golden age book today. At least by looking at comic books as an investment (in addition to great reading), we insure that the next generation of readers would not have to spend $10K on one key modern age issue.

[joe_collector]

At least by looking at comic books as an investment (in addition to great reading), we insure that the next generation of readers would not have to spend $10K on one key modern age issue.

 

You've just outlined the fallacy of "investment collectibles" in one sentence.

 

Once the investment phase starts in any collectible, the real money has already been made. Or as Bob Overstreet says, by the time comic books were printed with "Collector's Item First Issue" on the cover, they no longer were.

[Mr. Zipper]

Or as Bob Overstreet says, by the time comic books were printed with "Collector's Item First Issue" on the cover, they no longer were.

 

Generally this is correct. Anything initially sold as a "collectible", has little chance of attaining long term value. But, just to demonstrate that the notion of collecting comics and marketing them as collector's items is not so new... February 1963...