Do speculators make this hobby better or worse?

[Mishmashman]

By speculators, i mean people who collect comics simply to flip. Discuss.

[dupont2005]

I have a feeling if comics were not viewed as commodities we'd see more good comics and less renumberings, reboots, deaths, resurrections, variant covers, and crossovers.

[joecgcmaniac]

I have a feeling if comics were not viewed as commodities we'd see more good comics and less renumberings, reboots, deaths, resurrections, variant covers, and crossovers.

 

+1

 

we are almost to the same point as the early '90s when the bubble popped and the industry crashed and burned

[Mishmashman]

I have a feeling if comics were not viewed as commodities we'd see more good comics and less renumberings, reboots, deaths, resurrections, variant covers, and crossovers.

 

+1

 

we are almost to the same point as the early '90s when the bubble popped and the industry crashed and burned

 

Dont see this bubble bursting bc movies and shows will keep the prices of books up. Those ASM 700 midtown variants on the other hand... But I feel like its harder to find deals these days.

[dupont2005]

I don't see the values of classic keys going down after a speculation crash. Maybe the ultra high grades drop a bit but they will always be valuable. It's the moderns I see crashing, just like last time. But even if there is no crash, just knowing that gimmicks and events flat out sell comics better than writing a good story is sad.

[Logan510]

In general, worse...IMHO.

[cd4ever]

There would be no speculators without a booming collector market.

The day the speculators leave is the same day we go to bed with our collections worth X and wake up with our colections worth less than X.

 

As sad as it is to say, it's not a hobby without collector interest. Without that, we're just collecting worthless leaves falling from a tree in October. .

 

 

[The-Collector]

They do both.

 

Speculators help facilitate markets by increasing liquidity, bearing risk and reducing sell/buy spreads.

 

They also drive up prices, become over zealous and help create spectacular boom bust cycles.

 

I guess you take the good with the bad.

 

But I would rather have a healthy market with sensible speculation than no market at all, but it seems right now that some sections are overinflated.

[Mishmashman]

There would be no speculators without a booming collector market.

The day the speculators leave is the same day we go to bed with our collections worth X and wake up with our colections worth less than X.

 

As sad as it is to say, it's not a hobby without collector interest. Without that, we're just collecting worthless leaves falling from a tree in October. .

 

 

Ah, that's so poetic.

[Sqeggs]

They do both.

 

Speculators help facilitate markets by increasing liquidity, bearing risk and reducing sell/buy spreads.

 

They also drive up prices, become over zealous and help create spectacular boom bust cycles.

 

I guess you take the good with the bad.

 

But I would rather have a healthy market with sensible speculation than no market at all, but it seems right now that some sections are overinflated.

 

What he said.

[DoctorWyoming]

By speculators, i mean people who collect comics simply to flip. Discuss.

 

I see it as unavoidable. And for a good reason.

 

In my view, speculation occurs whenever 'outsider's sense value. To avoid having any speculation over comics, they'd have to be seen as having little value. You'd need to make comics bland, boring, without any relevance, i.e. about as interesting as collecting pocket lint. Then we'd be free of speculators.

 

However, this would not make for good comic books.

[DoctorWyoming]

As sad as it is to say, it's not a hobby without collector interest. Without that, we're just collecting worthless leaves falling from a tree in October. .

 

 

Yes, I think this sums it up well. A related way of looking at it is to say that what we collect is interesting enough to others that even outsiders want to buy in... if only for the financial aspects.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

I don't see the values of classic keys going down after a speculation crash. Maybe the ultra high grades drop a bit but they will always be valuable. It's the moderns I see crashing, just like last time. But even if there is no crash, just knowing that gimmicks and events flat out sell comics better than writing a good story is sad.

I agree. I cannot believe the prices people are paying for modern books these days. It's ridiculous IMHO.

 

That bloody ASM #700 DITKO variant is a case in point. At first I thought DITKO was somehow coerced to actually draw something new, so I thought "Ok, I can see why it's fetching such big bucks", but no, it's just a re-colored back cover from a MARVEL MILESTONE or MARVEL TALES issue. I forget which, but I do have it. Anyone want mine for ONLY $100.00?

 

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Speculating is bad for long-term business, but good for those who want quality reading material. Once the bubble bursts, yet again, the market will be sent reeling, and product lines will be cut back. The result will be the lesser quality material being dropped in favour of the top creative team projects.

 

Or, the entire hobby crashed and burns or goes digital.

[Silverdream]

They do both.

 

Speculators help facilitate markets by increasing liquidity, bearing risk and reducing sell/buy spreads.

 

They also drive up prices, become over zealous and help create spectacular boom bust cycles.

 

I guess you take the good with the bad.

 

But I would rather have a healthy market with sensible speculation than no market at all, but it seems right now that some sections are overinflated.

 

(thumbs u

 

The thing I worry about these days is, there is not much room to mess up with printed media these days. Even after a roughly 65% crash in the mid 90's the industry survived. That was primarily because the internet and digital media was in its infancy.

 

Today, if we have a crash as small as 35% I think it will put publishers out of business for good, or at least make them go to only digital. DC and Marvel will continute to produce books for years to come reguardless of what happens, but even they would have to trim down in a massive way.

 

IMHO publishers need to be hyper-aware of whats going on in the market. At the end of the day THEY are the ones who chose what to put out into the market. It doesnt matter if we currently have a wonderful market filled with collectors and speculators buying anything they produce. If they overdo it, variants, higher print runs etc etc, we could have another crash.

 

The publishers should treat the current market as very fragile and not flood the market for short term gain. Im not saying dont produce any more books than they were in 2004. Im saying be careful. In the end, its their market to help blossom or ruin.

 

So to answer the OP's question. Speculators can only help the comic market as a whole. The publishers are the ones who need to take care. If they see these speculators as simple dollar signs and nothing more... there is the problem. Its really hard to tell a business man , hey dont take that $100 tomorrow, instead take $65 and you will have that consistantly for years to come. $100 looks so much better tomorrow... until its not there anymore. There is a reason we teach history in school. Its not to bore us. It's so we dont make the same mistakes again.

[Ken Aldred]

 

That bloody ASM #700 DITKO variant is a case in point. At first I thought DITKO was somehow coerced to actually draw something new, so I thought "Ok, I can see why it's fetching such big bucks", but no, it's just a re-colored back cover from a MARVEL MILESTONE or MARVEL TALES issue. I forget which, but I do have it.

 

Yes, I was surprised that so much fuss was being made over a well-known, reprinted cover, the alternate version of AF 15.

[comix4fun]

That bloody ASM #700 DITKO variant is a case in point.

 

 

 

 

And to show how absolutely silly the entire ASM 700 thing is,

 

I just bought a gorgeous slabbed AF 15 for 30% LESS than that slabbed ASM 700 signed by Stan Lee got a couple of weeks ago.

 

That's how you know something's fudged up in funny book town.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I don't see the values of classic keys going down after a speculation crash. Maybe the ultra high grades drop a bit but they will always be valuable. It's the moderns I see crashing, just like last time. But even if there is no crash, just knowing that gimmicks and events flat out sell comics better than writing a good story is sad.

I agree. I cannot believe the prices people are paying for modern books these days. It's ridiculous IMHO.

 

That bloody ASM #700 DITKO variant is a case in point. At first I thought DITKO was somehow coerced to actually draw something new, so I thought "Ok, I can see why it's fetching such big bucks", but no, it's just a re-colored back cover from a MARVEL MILESTONE or MARVEL TALES issue. I forget which, but I do have it. Anyone want mine for ONLY $100.00?

 

 

In fairness, it was supposed to be the original cover to AF #15, but was rejected in favour of Kirby's. (thumbs u

[joeypost]

That bloody ASM #700 DITKO variant is a case in point.

 

 

 

 

And to show how absolutely silly the entire ASM 700 thing is,

 

I just bought a gorgeous slabbed AF 15 for 30% LESS than that slabbed ASM 700 signed by Stan Lee got a couple of weeks ago.

 

That's how you know somethings fudged up in funny book town.

 

Agree completely. Having been around, and in part took a share in the 90's comic crash I see and feel similarities between now and then. Hopefully we have enough interest today to carry the hobby throug a downturn. Only time will tell.

[DrWatson]

I'm beginning to despise variant covers. I didn't start collecting any of the new Marvel Now series because of the variant cover cr@p.