Who Shills?

[Sqeggs]

If you snipe, you can't be shilled.

[Arkham]

I start all my ebay auctions at .99 with no reserve, and last week somebody got a hellstorm prince of lies slabbed 9.8 for 7 bucks, a punisher 47 9.8 for under 5 bucks etc. its the risk you take when selling them like that, but those are the sellers i look for also, those that start an auction low and has no reserve, if i see a shill bidder, i wont be ordering from them EVER.

 

 

This is how I view the world. http://i.imgur.com/90qcD.jpg

 

 

And why do you shill rather than simply start the bidding at your minimum price point?

 

Well, if you think about it, the only reason shill bidders bother you is because they prevent you from buying the book at a cheap price, i.e. at a price that was never really being offered in the first place.

 

Set a realistic price and keep to it, then no shill bidder can ever 'get' you.

 

No mate, you're way off. Firstly, of course the price was offered in the first place - if the starting bid is $50 with no reserve - then a bid of $50, with no competition, will win the auction.

 

No, I'm spot on actually. If they have shill bidders, then they were NEVER going to let the book go at 50. That's the point here. The price was never realistic.

 

You can say that's unfair, but the reality is that even you agree that the price is low... after all, why complain about shill bidding?

 

That's precisely why I say: set a reasonable price, the one you are willing to pay. If they take that bid, congrats. If not, they were never going to sell the book to you in the first place.

 

Shill bidding only bothers people who actually expect someone to sell a book at a low, low price.

 

Think about it

 

I see what you're saying. You're saying two things:

a) You're saying you think it's okay to advertise an item at a price you won't accept and then use deceitful methods to try and push the price up in the hope some gullible guppy will pull the trigger on it in a fit of eBay fever; and

b) You're saying that you shill.

 

 

No, in all seriousness, this is our point of difference: You think a book with no reserve does not mean it has no reserve. You think it has a reserve set in the seller's mind, that he has a right to defend through use of shill.

Whereas I think a book with no reserve is a book with ...*drumroll*... no reserve.

IMO, a "mental reserve" doesn't count and shilling is for the spineless who are too scared to set an actual reserve initially in case it scares off a potential buyer.

 

Frankly, I'd rather scare off a potential buyer than look like a of a seller.

 

I don't expect someone to sell a book at a low, low price. I expect someone to sell a book to someone who wins the auction.

If the price is too low, then it's the seller's fault for not setting a reserve or starting the bidding price too low. Frankly, if you're only going to accept $200 for a book, regardless, set a BIN of $200 and be done with it.

 

If a book sells to the market for $50, then the book is worth $50. Regardless of what GPAnalysis tells you, simple fact is that a comic is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay.

 

As I said above, I have no vested interest in this auction. I simply observed a shill and realised that it's my humble opinion that I think shilling is weak.

 

 

[Jimmy Linguini]

I shill so much, my shills have shills! I hope you don't get the chills, cuz of all my shills

 

My shills help me pay the bills, that's on the reals

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, I'll be here all week!

 

i shill 4 real

i shill 2 steal

money from my buyers

i laugh with my suppliers

[Arkham]

I shill so much, my shills have shills! I hope you don't get the chills, cuz of all my shills

 

My shills help me pay the bills, that's on the reals

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, I'll be here all week!

 

i shill 4 real

i shill 2 steal

money from my buyers

i laugh with my suppliers

 

Duet on YouTube. Plz. Thx.

[Jimmy Linguini]

I shill so much, my shills have shills! I hope you don't get the chills, cuz of all my shills

 

My shills help me pay the bills, that's on the reals

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, I'll be here all week!

 

i shill 4 real

i shill 2 steal

money from my buyers

i laugh with my suppliers

 

Duet on YouTube. Plz. Thx.

 

Give me $200.

[Arkham]

I shill so much, my shills have shills! I hope you don't get the chills, cuz of all my shills

 

My shills help me pay the bills, that's on the reals

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, I'll be here all week!

 

i shill 4 real

i shill 2 steal

money from my buyers

i laugh with my suppliers

 

Duet on YouTube. Plz. Thx.

 

Give me $200.

 

Give my friend $250.

[Jimmy Linguini]

I shill so much, my shills have shills! I hope you don't get the chills, cuz of all my shills

 

My shills help me pay the bills, that's on the reals

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, I'll be here all week!

 

i shill 4 real

i shill 2 steal

money from my buyers

i laugh with my suppliers

 

Duet on YouTube. Plz. Thx.

 

Give me $200.

 

Give my friend $250.

 

no

[Buzzetta]

Good luck with this thread. ::

 

Also, please list when you evade taxes, kick a puppy or lie to your priest.

 

I raise my hand as guilty on the lying to the priest thing.

[ThoseBackPages]

tree fiddy

[batman_fan]

And why do you shill rather than simply start the bidding at your minimum price point?

 

Well, if you think about it, the only reason shill bidders bother you is because they prevent you from buying the book at a cheap price, i.e. at a price that was never really being offered in the first place.

 

Set a realistic price and keep to it, then no shill bidder can ever 'get' you.

 

No mate, you're way off. Firstly, of course the price was offered in the first place - if the starting bid is $50 with no reserve - then a bid of $50, with no competition, will win the auction.

 

No, I'm spot on actually. If they have shill bidders, then they were NEVER going to let the book go at 50. That's the point here. The price was never realistic.

 

You can say that's unfair, but the reality is that even you agree that the price is low... after all, why complain about shill bidding?

 

That's precisely why I say: set a reasonable price, the one you are willing to pay. If they take that bid, congrats. If not, they were never going to sell the book to you in the first place.

 

Shill bidding only bothers people who actually expect someone to sell a book at a low, low price.

 

Think about it

 

 

[DoctorWyoming]

 

I see what you're saying. You're saying two things:

a) You're saying you think it's okay to advertise an item at a price you won't accept and then use deceitful methods to try and push the price up in the hope some gullible guppy will pull the trigger on it in a fit of eBay fever; and

 

No.

 

What I am saying is that if someone uses shill bidders, then they were NEVER going to sell you the book at the low price you want to pay. You've uncovered someone who's trying to bait you.

 

 

So....

 

It follows that you can only be 'suckered' in if you are looking to steal something at a low price. The shill bidder can only take advantage of your greed, he can only draw you in based on your own irrational responses to shilling.

 

This is what you should stop worrying about shill bidders and just decide what you want to pay. If you 'overpay' then it's your fault. You're a big boy, blaming a shill bidder is just ignoring your own greed and your own mistakes.

 

 

Perhaps a way to sum this all up is: buyer beware.

 

 

 

b) You're saying that you shill.

 

 

Nope. Read above.

 

 

No, in all seriousness, this is our point of difference: You think a book with no reserve does not mean it has no reserve.

 

No, I mean what I wrote. Is there a point in your responding to my posts if you're just going to re-edit what I actually say into your own personal biased view what you think my intentions are?

 

Blaming shills is just dodging your own responsibility. Yes, it sucks that you can't really have a 150 dollar book for 50 bucks, but if you're realistic about it from the start you can't really be taken in...

 

 

[DoctorWyoming]

 

 

I realize how people will misread what I say, because they focus on the unfairness of a shill while ignoring their own role in the problem. Shill bidders take advantage of your own greed and your own irrational responses to being 'outbid'

 

If you can't set a realistic price and be rational in your purchases, then that's your problem.

 

But go on blaming the shill..... that'll solve the problem just fine....

[Arkham]

Doc, I re-iterate, I was not invested in this auction. It wasn't me who wanted/missed out on a 150 dollar book for 50.

 

All I'm saying is that I think shilling is mess. You obviously do not. Instead you think a shill is taking advantage of a buyer's greed. Whereas an alternative viewpoint would be that the shill is actually the one demonstrating greed by pushing for more coin than what the market is dictating.

[DoctorWyoming]

Doc, I re-iterate, I was not invested in this auction. It wasn't me who wanted/missed out on a 150 dollar book for 50.

 

Fine, but you're being too concrete here. People taken in by shills clearly start out wanting to pick up books cheaper than market value.

 

 

All I'm saying is that I think shilling is mess.

 

They are trying to take advantage of you. Agreed.

 

 

You obviously do not.

I think it's clear at this point that you really don't know what I'm saying. Not sure why, seeing as I say it over and over.

 

Instead you think a shill is taking advantage of a buyer's greed. Whereas an alternative viewpoint would be that the shill is actually the one demonstrating greed by pushing for more coin than what the market is dictating.

 

I think you are missing out on something important. You can't isolate the problem solely in the shill.

 

In other words, there is no need for an alternative viewpoint when BOTH work together. The shill tries to sucker you in with a low price, then take advantage of your emotions to get you to pay more.

 

The shill is dishonest... but his shilling won't work if you are honest with yourself first.

 

Figure out what is a fair price

 

Bid it.

 

Accept that it's not yours if the price goes higher.

 

Now, you tell me, how does a shill bidder hurt you if you follow that method of bidding?

 

[passion4comics]

I've been run up on EBay going for a book I really wanted. When the second chance offer came in I smelled a rat.

[CR]

The shill is dishonest... but his shilling won't work if you are honest with yourself first.

 

Figure out what is a fair price

 

Bid it.

 

Accept that it's not yours if the price goes higher.

 

Now, you tell me, how does a shill bidder hurt you if you follow that method of bidding?

 

 

I think you're missing a key aspect of the shill, Doc.

 

I place my $200 bid on an item currently at $50 the day before the auction ends. If the seller now uses a shill account to bid up the price to my $200 max (with no legitimate bidders participating), the seller/shill has effectively stolen money out of my pocket.

 

You could still be hurt using your last minute bid method if the seller has bid up the price artificially. While you might bid $200 (and think that's a fair price), do you really want the seller extracting every last penny from you with his shill account when you could have won for a lower price?

[DoctorWyoming]

The shill is dishonest... but his shilling won't work if you are honest with yourself first.

 

Figure out what is a fair price

 

Bid it.

 

Accept that it's not yours if the price goes higher.

 

Now, you tell me, how does a shill bidder hurt you if you follow that method of bidding?

 

 

I think you're missing a key aspect of the shill, Doc.

 

I place my $200 bid on an item currently at $50 the day before the auction ends. If the seller now uses a shill account to bid up the price to my $200 max (with no legitimate bidders participating), the seller/shill has effectively stolen money out of my pocket.

 

You could still be hurt using your last minute bid method if the seller has bid up the price artificially. While you might bid $200 (and think that's a fair price), do you really want to seller extracting every last penny from you with his shill account when you could have won for a lower price?

 

No, of course not. In fact I'd prefer he send me the book for free. But if his real price is $200, then I either have to accept that price or walk away.

 

However, what you are talking about here is something different than what I have been discussing. I've been referring to cases where a person is either looking to buy for a low price (and then gets bid up) or someone who gets emotionally involved in a bidding war. You're talking about someone who takes advantage of an early bidder who puts down a maximum bid, (in this case $200), but who would really have preferred to pay say 150. I'd say that you certainly have a point in this case... they are not taking advantage of your greed here, they are breaking a trust. In this case you're not actively involved or directly responsible for overbidding...

 

 

[Speedy-D]

If you snipe, you can't be shilled.

'course you can

[Speedy-D]

 

I see what you're saying. You're saying two things:

a) You're saying you think it's okay to advertise an item at a price you won't accept and then use deceitful methods to try and push the price up in the hope some gullible guppy will pull the trigger on it in a fit of eBay fever; and

 

No.

 

What I am saying is that if someone uses shill bidders, then they were NEVER going to sell you the book at the low price you want to pay. You've uncovered someone who's trying to bait you.

 

 

So....

 

It follows that you can only be 'suckered' in if you are looking to steal something at a low price. The shill bidder can only take advantage of your greed, he can only draw you in based on your own irrational responses to shilling.

 

This is what you should stop worrying about shill bidders and just decide what you want to pay. If you 'overpay' then it's your fault. You're a big boy, blaming a shill bidder is just ignoring your own greed and your own mistakes.

 

 

Perhaps a way to sum this all up is: buyer beware.

 

 

 

b) You're saying that you shill.

 

 

Nope. Read above.

 

 

No, in all seriousness, this is our point of difference: You think a book with no reserve does not mean it has no reserve.

 

No, I mean what I wrote. Is there a point in your responding to my posts if you're just going to re-edit what I actually say into your own personal biased view what you think my intentions are?

 

Blaming shills is just dodging your own responsibility. Yes, it sucks that you can't really have a 150 dollar book for 50 bucks, but if you're realistic about it from the start you can't really be taken in...

 

[batman_fan]

 

 

I realize how people will misread what I say, because they focus on the unfairness of a shill while ignoring their own role in the problem. Shill bidders take advantage of your own greed and your own irrational responses to being 'outbid'

 

If you can't set a realistic price and be rational in your purchases, then that's your problem.

 

But go on blaming the shill..... that'll solve the problem just fine....

 

Some people just don't get it.