ORIGINS of the American Comic Book 0

[craig yoe]

orry for the typos, typing with one hand and rockin' the cradle with the other...

[craig yoe]

haha: SORRY!

[adamstrange]

Finally had the chance to read this thread last night--some very interesting points raised.

 

Someone mentioned that Carl Barks made the most money for his publisher. As brilliant as Barks was it was probably Walt Disney's name and Donald Duck (not created by Barks) that made this the top selling comic. #2 money making comic for a good period there was probably Looney Tunes or Little Lulu. Again, not because of the cartoonists (who again didn't create the characters) but because of the "brand". I say this with no disrespect to Carl Barks and John Stanley who were amazing artists and the two best writers comics ever had IMHO. Another big seller I bet was another "brand",Popeye, the comnic book by Bud Sagendorf. The one-eyed sailor was created, as you know, by comic stripper E.C. Segar (and popularized but the animation, too). Sagendorf was Segar's assistant and like a son to the older cartoonist). Sagendorf was in the league in both art and writing with Barks and Stanley.

 

The creators who made the most money for their publisher with their OWN creation? I'd say Siegel and Shuster with Superman. And not only the comic books but the merchandising and comic strip was incredibly profitable. And it not only made the publisher rich but Siegel and Shuster as well who became wealthy men unlike Barks and Stanley who lived modestly and didn't have a "stake". Jerry and Joe, I believe, had the same deal as Bob Kane, the big difference was that the deal was given to them in a paternalistic manner not in a contract like Kane had his lawyer relative negotiate (which, sadly, did not include Bill Finger). And not having a written contract as good as Kane bugged Siegel and Shuster, especially I think Jerry. And worried them when the first heyday of superheroes was coming to an end after the war. And the fact that the relationship between DC and S+S was very rocky. So they sued to gain control--and lost for the most part and became sadly very challenged financially.

 

Someone mentionJack Kirby as a big breadwinner for his publisher. True, but I'd guess his creations for Marvel (which I give Stan Lee co-credit for--which is not an opinion shared by everyone) are a fraction of the Lee-Ditko Spider-Man profits for Marvel. KIrby was involved with the creation of more characters, but Spidey sells a lot of under-roos! (and films, and toys, and widgets and happy meals and etc)

 

John Goldewater and Bob Montana's (and Vic Bloom and Harry Shorten's) Archie sold a lot of comics for their publisher (and of course John was the "J" in MLJ). But Archie's big popularity was the 1950s and early 60s after Montana left the comics for a good piece of the greener pastures of the comic strip world. And After editor Shorten and writer Bloom were no longer on the Archie scene and haven't got enough of the credit they deserve, though that's changing a wee bit).

 

I'm as crazed a collector as nearly anyone here, I believe, but it's tragic in a way that we collector fans, especially of the superhero variety, eventually controlled the editorial output of the majority of floppy (I hate that term) comics. Comics ceased appealing to young kids, women, the mass market got out of the candy stores, PX's, drug stores and into the specialty shops. There's good aspects, but we lost much in the transition. And we don't only have ourselves to blame but TV, the more profitable paperbacks per store shelf space, the critics of comics, etc.

 

Please, all IMHO and brief thoughts only. I'm not looking to pick fights with anyone. All you fascinating people just got me thinking and prompted me out of the "lurking" mode...I'd like to be more involved here, but quite busy with things like babies...

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent post. Glad you took the time to contribute. (thumbs u

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

Teaching comic book retailers in 1955 about the benefits of the Comics Code

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BUSTER BROWN AND HIS RESOLUTIONS by Richard F. Outcault.

Published in 1903 by Frederick A Stokes, it measures a whopping 11x16 inches containing 66 pages including covers. This was the norm size of Sunday newspaper reprint comic books until the last ones published in 1921.

 

This was the very first nationally distributed in America comic book devoted to one character, hence, one of the most important comic books ever published.

 

Main method of national distribution in to most all parts of America was via Sears, Roebuck catalog for that Christmas season.

 

It remains somewhat rare, almost never turns up in any sort of "high" grade.

[BLBcomics-migration]

Here is a comic strip dated May 1865, published in Merryman's Monthly v3 #5, J.C. Haney & Co, New York City, distributed by American News Company

 

The "Father of the American Comic Strip," Frank Bellew, Sr created this comic strip story, one of hundreds he had published between 1853 thru the late 1870s.

 

Titled "The Flying Machine" about a hot air balloon which travels from America across the Atlantic to Africa wherein our hero, Professor High, has adventures there with monkeys, a giraffe, a lion, a gorilla, is msitaken for local diety Mumbo Jumbo, and returns to "...his own dear native land of Connecticut." - all told in just 23 panels

 

 

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

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[Cat-Man_America]

this poor gutted thread useta be GREAT. it's but a pale shadow of it's once glorious self.

 

 

[mrmyst]

[pmpknface]

If I've posted this before I apologize, but this is a great blog to sub to as it goes back to the platinum age often:

 

http://superitch.com/?p=39420

 

That specific entry has Space Detective #4 complete to read.

[Sqeggs]

 

I wonder if any of the Catechetical Guild's lists of approved comics have survived? Even more interesting would be lists of their not approved books.

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

All three Humor Publishing 1933 comic books were the direct inspiration for Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster to transform "The Superman" from the villain he was in their fanzine Science Fiction #3 in to a more heroic figure. One can descern aspects from all three covers which went in to the composition of their first attempt at a Superman cover

 

 

Some how MC Gaines ended up with the original art to the below Superman cover. In 1969 his son Bill Gaines discovered it crumpled up behind a drawer in his father's desk.

 

Bill, in turn, saying he was not in to Superman, simply gave it to one of my early comics mentors, Russ Cochran, in 1970 when Russ was back in NYC concluding his first EC reprint deals. Russ at the time was still a Physics Prof at Drake in Des Moines, Iowa, a two hour drive for me and I had recently just gotten my driver's license. I made many a trek to score neat comics stuff from Russ.

 

Russ, in turn, telling me he was not in to Superman, insisted I trade him $100 in Golden Age comic books for it. I looked at this fire edge-tinged original art ripped in to four pieces and concluded some thign needed to be done with it to preserve what ever this was for posterity so I had a few hundred "twice up" poster prints printed up at a local printer who taught me how to use red opaque paint to clean up printing negatives.

 

My high school brain at the time would not let me actually red opaque over actual Shuster ar. One can readily descern the tear going right thru Superman's head as according to the myth and legends Joe had ripped up the complete book, threw it in to the Shuster family fireplace and Jerry had reached in to rescue the cover. I thought at the time if I "inked in" on aspects of the Shuster art I would have to sign it as well. "Sacrilage" I thought to myself. Such are thoughts of a high school student trying to figure out what he had been blessed with care-taking.

 

 

In the seminal interview with Jerry & Joe published in Nemo #2 1981 (cover and first page pictured below), Jerry talks about "Detective Dan" for the first time with members of comics fandom. Unfortunately the interviewers did not follow with more lines of query as to who the publisher was who had come to Cleveland to talk with newspaper syndicate NEA.

 

After much pondering this scenario, figuring Dan Dun Decret Op 48 debuts via NEA some months later, I am convinced Humor publisher is Norman Marsh, who lived in Chicago at the time. Occam's Razor.

 

[Bookery]

 

BUSTER BROWN AND HIS RESOLUTIONS by Richard F. Outcault.

Published in 1903 by Frederick A Stokes, it measures a whopping 11x16 inches containing 66 pages including covers. This was the norm size of Sunday newspaper reprint comic books until the last ones published in 1921.

 

This was the very first nationally distributed in America comic book devoted to one character, hence, one of the most important comic books ever published.

 

Main method of national distribution in to most all parts of America was via Sears, Roebuck catalog for that Christmas season.

 

It remains somewhat rare, almost never turns up in any sort of "high" grade.

 

It's a neat book, and I agree, historically significant. I have 3 copies at present... a solid 3.0 copy with white pages, and 2 other copies each missing a couple of pages IIRC. Of course, I've had them for years... unfortunately significance and saleability are two differet things! Show people Spider-man or Superman and they ooh and ahh... show them Buster Brown and they look at you like you're crazy!

 

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

BUSTER BROWN AND HIS RESOLUTIONS by Richard F. Outcault.

Published in 1903 by Frederick A Stokes, it measures a whopping 11x16 inches containing 66 pages including covers. This was the norm size of Sunday newspaper reprint comic books until the last ones published in 1921.

 

This was the very first nationally distributed in America comic book devoted to one character, hence, one of the most important comic books ever published.

 

Main method of national distribution in to most all parts of America was via Sears, Roebuck catalog for that Christmas season.

 

It remains somewhat rare, almost never turns up in any sort of "high" grade.

 

It's a neat book, and I agree, historically significant. I have 3 copies at present... a solid 3.0 copy with white pages, and 2 other copies each missing a couple of pages IIRC. Of course, I've had them for years... unfortunately significance and saleability are two differet things! Show people Spider-man or Superman and they ooh and ahh... show them Buster Brown and they look at you like you're crazy!

 

I totally agree regarding "saleability" which has never been the thrust of any of the comics business history I have been involved with when building first the Platinum section nor its "Victorian" era expansion beginning more than a decade and a half ago.

 

During the 15 years I was more hands on involved with the Overstreet indexing, I was under constant pressure to raise prices of items each year. I objected, so they took over more of that aspect. It is, after all, a "price" guide, not really a serious scholarly journal of any sort.

 

All I have ever been about is expanding the consciousness of the evolution of the American comic book which the facts demonstrate begins in America in Sept 1842 which began for me quite unexpectedly when I first read the Gersham Legman 1946 article back in 1998 I have referenced previously. Back in the late 90s I transcribed all of the comics references in the journal Legman appeared in which began with a 1941 query from August Derleth and went on from there. I have all that and more on a DVD I have been searching for as I continue to sort out my research files. Once located, will post here or some where else. It is fascinating reading I put out on to the net in the late 90s on to a couple internet zines which no longer exist though might be locatable via more extensive "way back" google type searches.

 

One can easily see where Amazing Fantasy 15 is supplanting most of the earlier "Golden Age" comic books except for Action 1, Tec 27, and "maybe" Marvel Comics #1 though based on market reporting AF 15 is already ahead of the "investment" game regarding MC #1.

 

To me the money aspect is near meaningless.

 

It is the proper historical contexts the earlier comic books exist, that "life" did not begin with Funnies On Parade/Famous Funnies #1 in 1933/34, which runs my wagon, even though I have made my living for over 40 years buying and selling comic books.

 

"Demand" regarding how much any given artifact is worth means little when placing all the comic books in the proper context historical time line.

 

This is where there was a disconnect earlier in this thread of sorts when guys like Bill Ponsetti were referring to present day popularity of a Superman or a Spider-Man and I did not pick up on their concept which led to flames erupting.

 

Such is the nature of email communication.

 

 

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

I wonder if any of the Catechetical Guild's lists of approved comics have survived? Even more interesting would be lists of their not approved books.

 

yes, they have. Some where I also have some of these lists of approved as well as not approved comic books. The approved lists contain mostly Dell Comics as one might expect what with the Walt Disney stuff, the Warner Bros Looney Tunes characters, etc.

 

Hopefully more of my Catechetical Guild files turn up. Seems to me the folks at the previous incarnation of Sparkle City originally turned up all that stuff. I bought at the "back story" files years ago when hardly any one was concerned with such mundane stuff. Others bought up the actual comic books, some of the titles going for bigger bucks than I was prepared to spend.

 

I agree with my friend Craig Yoe's assessment regarding Carl Barks, John Stanley, being two of the greatest creators of comics who ever lived.

[Sqeggs]

 

I wonder if any of the Catechetical Guild's lists of approved comics have survived? Even more interesting would be lists of their not approved books.

 

yes, they have. Some where I also have some of these lists of approved as well as not approved comic books. The approved lists contain mostly Dell Comics as one might expect what with the Walt Disney stuff, the Warner Bros Looney Tunes characters, etc.

 

Hopefully more of my Catechetical Guild files turn up. Seems to me the folks at the previous incarnation of Sparkle City originally turned up all that stuff. I bought at the "back story" files years ago when hardly any one was concerned with such mundane stuff. Others bought up the actual comic books, some of the titles going for bigger bucks than I was prepared to spend.

 

I agree with my friend Craig Yoe's assessment regarding Carl Barks, John Stanley, being two of the greatest creators of comics who ever lived.

 

I would appreciate your posting the lists if you can locate them. (thumbs u

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

I would appreciate your posting the lists if you can locate them. (thumbs u

 

I saw a couple of them a month or so ago while sorting files. Hopefully thru this week end they will resurrect. They are interesting, of sorts. Those guys in Minneapolis sure had a skewed view of what was acceptable for a comic book. As if ALL comic books just had to be for kids, the concept of adults reading them alien