The Cookeville Collection 6 6

[Sqeggs]

On 1/14/2020 at 11:34 AM, Tri-ColorBrian said:

I guess they really wanted to mark this book...it's got 2 SNs...

 The dealer who forged the marking needed to practice first. 

[Sqeggs]

On 6/5/2018 at 2:14 PM, walclark said:

On 6/5/2018 at 12:17 PM, Badger said:

Were there any duplicates in Cookeville?

Good question.  To the best of my knowledge, there were not.  But it’s always possible and unfortunately, there is not a master list.

There was so much variation in the initials that both of the Nationals posted above could make an argument for being a Cookeville copy.

 

I was thinking the same thing. In both cases the initials don't seem as large and bold as they usually are.

[Sqeggs]

14 minutes ago, path4play said:

Mmm, plot thickens.  Thoughts?

Listed just three weeks apart.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/police-comics-45-cookeville-pedigree-quality-1945-cgc-vf-nm-90-off-white-to-white-pages/a/122019-13247.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/police-comics-45-cookeville-pedigree-quality-1945-cgc-vf-85-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/122017-17258.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

I'll bow to @walclark's expertise, but the 8.5 certainly seems more likely, although it's "SMN" 

[Sqeggs]

Posted this one earlier in the Cigar thread. Since the Church copy is only a 6.0 (and is the highest graded), it makes you wonder if a high-grade copy of this issue exists. 

[path4play]

3 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

I'll bow to @walclark's expertise, but the 8.5 certainly seems more likely, although it's "SMN" 

I emailed question to HA, hope they respond.  Obviously, I'm more than curious.

[Sqeggs]

4 minutes ago, path4play said:

7 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

I'll bow to @walclark's expertise, but the 8.5 certainly seems more likely, although it's "SMN" 

I emailed question to HA, hope they respond.  Obviously, I'm more than curious.

There have clearly been some ped misattributions over the years. I raised the issue on the boards at the time, but I have my doubts about some (by no means all!) of the raw Church copies that Heritage auctioned last year (or was it the year before?) either because they didn't match the grades in Chuck's catalog (grades could be lower, of course, because the book could have been read or badly stored, but how could they go up?) or because a graded copy of the book already existed. There have been other instances as well. 

It can go in the other direction as well, of course. There are books that are from pedigrees but CGC didn't acknowledge it on the label. Sometimes CGC goes by provenance when the book doesn't have marks and that's, obviously, liable to get iffy. Hawkeyes seem especially prone to this. 

[path4play]

6 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

There have clearly been some ped misattributions over the years. I raised the issue on the boards at the time, but I have my doubts about some (by no means all!) of the raw Church copies that Heritage auctioned last year (or was it the year before?) either because they didn't match the grades in Chuck's catalog (grades could be lower, of course, because the book could have been read or badly stored, but how could they go up?) or because a graded copy of the book already existed. There have been other instances as well. 

It can go in the other direction as well, of course. There are books that are from pedigrees but CGC didn't acknowledge it on the label. Sometimes CGC goes by provenance when the book doesn't have marks and that's, obviously, liable to get iffy. Hawkeyes seem especially prone to this. 

I would have preferred the one auctioned off a few weeks earlier as it had the clearly markings, but wasn't checking HA for a few weeks.  I'm presuming the same owner submitted due to recency of sales of several on HA.  A Cookeville also up now on Comic Link, seems an owner is dumping.

[Badger]

59 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

There have clearly been some ped misattributions over the years. I raised the issue on the boards at the time, but I have my doubts about some (by no means all!) of the raw Church copies that Heritage auctioned last year (or was it the year before?) either because they didn't match the grades in Chuck's catalog (grades could be lower, of course, because the book could have been read or badly stored, but how could they go up?) or because a graded copy of the book already existed. There have been other instances as well. 

It can go in the other direction as well, of course. There are books that are from pedigrees but CGC didn't acknowledge it on the label. Sometimes CGC goes by provenance when the book doesn't have marks and that's, obviously, liable to get iffy. Hawkeyes seem especially prone to this. 

There were some CGC graded Barks Four Colors over at Hake's that were labeled Mile Highs. This included #386. I talked to Chuck about it and he said he would have hung onto it for dear life if it had existed. He does not sell high grade Barks and instead hordes them in his office.

[vheflin]

3 hours ago, path4play said:

Mmm, plot thickens.  Thoughts?

Listed just three weeks apart.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/police-comics-45-cookeville-pedigree-quality-1945-cgc-vf-nm-90-off-white-to-white-pages/a/122019-13247.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/police-comics-45-cookeville-pedigree-quality-1945-cgc-vf-85-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/122017-17258.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

 

 

 

The 8.5 with the SMN initials is a Cookeville.  It's cert #1970927007.

The 9.0 with Edger on it is not a Cookeville, note that it's cert #1970927008, slabbed immediately after the 8.5.

What likely happened is the grader had Cookeville selected in the label software correctly for the first book but didn't clear out the pedigree field when they entered the info. for the 9.0 so it was mislabeled. 

[Sqeggs]

3 hours ago, Badger said:

4 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

There have clearly been some ped misattributions over the years. I raised the issue on the boards at the time, but I have my doubts about some (by no means all!) of the raw Church copies that Heritage auctioned last year (or was it the year before?) either because they didn't match the grades in Chuck's catalog (grades could be lower, of course, because the book could have been read or badly stored, but how could they go up?) or because a graded copy of the book already existed. There have been other instances as well. 

It can go in the other direction as well, of course. There are books that are from pedigrees but CGC didn't acknowledge it on the label. Sometimes CGC goes by provenance when the book doesn't have marks and that's, obviously, liable to get iffy. Hawkeyes seem especially prone to this. 

There were some CGC graded Barks Four Colors over at Hake's that were labeled Mile Highs. This included #386. I talked to Chuck about it and he said he would have hung onto it for dear life if it had existed. He does not sell high grade Barks and instead hordes them in his office.

Interesting. I thought Chuck said that there were very few funny animal comics in the collection? Supposedly the family threw most of them out before he got there. Or are the high-grade Barks that Chuck is hoarding not Edgar's books?

It is odd about those Church FCs surfacing after all this time.

[Badger]

6 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

Interesting. I thought Chuck said that there were very few funny animal comics in the collection? Supposedly the family threw most of them out before he got there. Or are the high-grade Barks that Chuck is hoarding not Edgar's books?

It is odd about those Church FCs surfacing after all this time.

Sorry, i wasn't clear. Chuck said they were not legit. He would have kept them if they were.

[Sqeggs]

Just now, Badger said:

Sorry, i wasn't clear. Chuck said they were not legit. He would have kept them if they were.

It's weird after he had made it clear many years ago that there were very few funny animal books in the collection that these FCs suddenly popped up. I wish CGC had been tougher on requiring authentication on these (and Heritage had been tougher on the raw books). Most important collection in the hobby and its integrity should have been better safeguarded. 

[walclark]

1 hour ago, vheflin said:

The 8.5 with the SMN initials is a Cookeville.  It's cert #1970927007.

The 9.0 with Edger on it is not a Cookeville, note that it's cert #1970927008, slabbed immediately after the 8.5.

What likely happened is the grader had Cookeville selected in the label software correctly for the first book but didn't clear out the pedigree field when they entered the info. for the 9.0 so it was mislabeled. 

Well. that makes sense.  I had questioned the pedigree label on the 9.0 in the Heritage thread. 

While the SMN initials aren't as common as the SN, you can see the similar styles.  The SMN and NN initials become more common on books from 1945 and up.  I wonder if the young lady started adding her middle initial for some reason.

[lou_fine]

On the topic of the Cookville pedigree collection, is anybody here aware of any copies that have graded out in the CGC 9.4 and above grade range?  

[path4play]

11 hours ago, vheflin said:

The 8.5 with the SMN initials is a Cookeville.  It's cert #1970927007.

The 9.0 with Edger on it is not a Cookeville, note that it's cert #1970927008, slabbed immediately after the 8.5.

What likely happened is the grader had Cookeville selected in the label software correctly for the first book but didn't clear out the pedigree field when they entered the info. for the 9.0 so it was mislabeled. 

[telerites]

 

5 hours ago, lou_fine said:

On the topic of the Cookville pedigree collection, is anybody here aware of any copies that have graded out in the CGC 9.4 and above grade range?  

I think this would be difficult to say, LF, since it wasn't too long ago (less than a year) that CGC recognized the pedigree.  I have a few Cookeville's (none above the 9.4) but even if I did, I wouldn't pay for reholdering into a new ped label unless I was selling and it was financially worthwhile.  

Just a thought as I am by no means an expert. 

When I did a pedigree search on GPA, there were very few titles represented (realizing that only records sales from those sites it receives data).  Below are the titles and when I went through, usually only one issue from that title showed (e.g., Batman #35 is the only issue in 9.0, Boy Commandos #7 in 8.5, and so on).

I didn't check Voldy's census as they have recognized the ped for longer.

Probably in the thread here but I believe there 5,000 books in the collection?

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by telerites

[jimbo_7071]

The Comic Book Pedigrees web site has three pages of Cookevilles.

http://comicpedigrees.com/gallery.php?pedigree_menu=59

The highest grade shown on that site is 9.2, which belongs to the Captain Marvel Adventures 60.

Many of the books are still raw, though, and a few of them look like they might have a chance at 9.4 if they aren't penalized for the writing (which they should be but won't be now that the pedigree is recognized).

[buttock]

15 hours ago, vheflin said:

The 8.5 with the SMN initials is a Cookeville.  It's cert #1970927007.

The 9.0 with Edger on it is not a Cookeville, note that it's cert #1970927008, slabbed immediately after the 8.5.

What likely happened is the grader had Cookeville selected in the label software correctly for the first book but didn't clear out the pedigree field when they entered the info. for the 9.0 so it was mislabeled. 

Good to know they're keeping an eye on details. 

[lou_fine]

7 hours ago, telerites said:

12 hours ago, lou_fine said:

On the topic of the Cookville pedigree collection, is anybody here aware of any copies that have graded out in the CGC 9.4 and above grade range?  

When I did a pedigree search on GPA, there were very few titles represented (realizing that only records sales from those sites it receives data).  Below are the titles and when I went through, usually only one issue from that title showed (e.g., Batman #35 is the only issue in 9.0, Boy Commandos #7 in 8.5, and so on).

 

5 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

The Comic Book Pedigrees web site has three pages of Cookevilles.

http://comicpedigrees.com/gallery.php?pedigree_menu=59

The highest grade shown on that site is 9.2, which belongs to the Captain Marvel Adventures 60.

I went through the Heritage archives under Cookville and the highest graded copies which I could find were 9.0 graded copies of Batman 35, Supes 41, Smash 63, and then everything else lower graded after that.  

It would appear that the last set of pedigrees which CGC designated for pedigree status last summer such as the Cookville, Eldon, and Harold Curtis would most probably all fail their old key and supposedly most important criteria for pedigree designation by a long shot, namely "the collection must be high-grade". 

Any idea if this means that this once former key requirement is now no longer required in order to obtain pedigree status from CGC?  

 

[jimbo_7071]

4 hours ago, lou_fine said:

 

I went through the Heritage archives under Cookville and the highest graded copies which I could find were 9.0 graded copies of Batman 35, Supes 41, Smash 63, and then everything else lower graded after that.  

It would appear that the last set of pedigrees which CGC designated for pedigree status last summer such as the Cookville, Eldon, and Harold Curtis would most probably all fail their old key and supposedly most important criteria for pedigree designation by a long shot, namely "the collection must be high-grade". 

Any idea if this means that this once former key requirement is now no longer required in order to obtain pedigree status from CGC?  

 

Well, one of the highlights of the Cookeville collection was the Cap run, and there was a Cap no. 1. Considering that CGC is giving pedigree status to Silver Age and Bronze Age collections, it makes sense that they would back off on their requirements for GA collections.