Transition points leading to what we know today as the Copper Age 1 1

[Bosco685]

Joe_Collector had done a fantastic job of capturing a timeline of events that he felt led to the formation of the Copper Age period. But it had a lot of the Big Two activities more than the independent influence that brought along that creator-owned, anti-hero, crazy character flavor that is recognizable today.

 

Maybe by extending this out further, it helps to start to gel what were the events leading to a transition from Bronze to something different. I just can't see some of these recognizable characters being considered Bronze like Grendel or Nexus.

 

 

• May 1979: Daredevil 158- First Miller art
  
• Nov 1979: Iron Man #128 "Demon in a Bottle"
  
• Feb 1980: She-Hulk #1
  
• Mar 1980: King Conan 1
  
• Apr 1980: Star Trek 1
  
• Spring 1980: Epic Illustrated 1
  
• Sep 1980: X-Men 137- Death of Dark Phoenix
  
• Oct 1980: DC Presents 26- first New Teen Titans
  
• Nov 1980: New Teen Titans 1
  
• Nov 1980: Moon Knight gets his own series
  
• 1980 : Superboy Spectacular- Direct Sales only 1-shot
  
• Jan 1981: Daredevil 168- First Miller -script; Intro Elektra
  
• Jan 1981: X-Men 141 "Days of Future Past" launches alternate timeline which would form the basis for many X-continuity books/characters over the next several years.
  
• Jan 1981: Capital Comics launches and publishes Nexus 1
  
• Mar 1981: X-Men 143- Final Claremont/Byrne
  
• Mar 1981: Dazzler 1- First direct-sales-only for an ongoing series
  
• Mar 1981: Bizarre Adventures starts
  
• Mar 1981: Captain Canuck is cancelled
  
• May 1981: Eclipse Magazine starts
  
• June 1981: The Hulk magazine ends
  
• Jul 1981: Fantastic Four 232 - Byrne takes over FF writing/art duties.
  
• Aug 1981: Rogue debuts
  
• Aug 1981: Marvel Premiere ends
  
• Nov 1981: Captain Victory 1- First Pacific Comics issue, direct-only publisher
  
• 1981: Marvel cancels many of its reprint titles, including MGC, AA, TTA, MSA, etc.
  
• 1981: Stan Lee moves to California to head Marvel TV/movie properties, leaving Jim Shooter in charge
  
• Jan 1982: Comico Comics founded: publishes Comico Primer #1.
  
• Feb 1982: Comico Primer #2 introduces the character Grendel (Hunter Rose) by Matt Wagner.
  
• March 1982: Warrior Magazine #1 (Marvelman, V for Vendetta)
  
• May 1982: Saga of the Swamp Thing #1
  
• June 1982: G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #1
  
• June 1982: Marvel Super-Hero Contest of Champions #1 (first Marvel mini-series, precursor to Secret Wars)
  
• Sept 1982: Love and Rockets debuts
  
• Sept 1982: Wolverine Mini #1
  
• 1982: Harvey Comics, Warren Publishing and Spire Comics cease operations
  
• 1982: DC cancels remaining Horror titles
  
• 1982: Start of creator royalties at Marvel and DC
  
• 1982: Steve Geppi founds Diamond
  
• 1982: Marvel introduces Graphic Novel series, including Death of Captain Marvel and X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills.
  
• Dec 1982: New Mutants introduction published in Marvel Graphic Novel #4, leading to a 1983-1991 dedicated title.
  
• Jan 1983: Bill Willingham’s The Elementals introduced as part of backup story of Justice Machine Annual 1 (Texas Comics).
  
• Jan 1983: Albedo Anthropomorphics #0 published by Steven Gallacci.
  
• Feb 1983: The Buyer's Guide to Comics Fandom is acquired by Krause Publications and changes its name to Comics Buyer's Guide.
  
• Mar 1983: Warp published by First Comics, which also is its first comic by this later recognized independent publisher.
  
• May 1983: Jason Todd makes his debut as the second Robin in Detective Comics #526.
  
• Jun 1983: Master of Kung Fu, with issue #125, is cancelled by Marvel.
  
• Jun 1983: Marvel Two-in-One, with issue #100, is cancelled by Marvel (replaced the following month by the new title The Thing).
  
• Jun 1983: Jon Sable published by First Comics.
  
• Jul 1983: First issue of Frank Miller's Ronin limited series published by DC Comics.
  
• Jul 1983: Final issue of Brave and the Bold; also features a preview insert for the new title Batman and the Outsiders.
  
• Jul 1983: Mike Baron’s The Badger #1 published by Capital Comics.
  
• Aug 1983: Alan Moore's "The Bojeffries Saga" starts with Warrior #12, published by Quality Communications (continued through 1986).
  
• Aug 1983: Harris Publications acquired Warren Publishing's company assets (Vampirella, Creepy, Eerie); later gives up Creepy and Eerie.
  
• Sep 1983: With issue #503, DC ceases publishing Adventure Comics, which had been running continuously since November 1938.
  
• Oct 1983: House of Mystery, with issue #321, canceled by DC.
  
• Oct 1983: American Flagg! published by First Comics.
  
• Nov 1983: Walt Simonson makes his debut as writer/artist on Thor with issue #337; introduces Beta Ray Bill.
  
• 1983: DC Comics acquires most of Charlton's superhero characters (includes Blue Beetle, Captain Atom, The Question).
  
• Jan 1984: Alan Moore takes over writing responsibilities for Saga of the Swamp Thing title with issue #20.
  
• May 1984: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1 published by Mirage Studios.
  
• May 1984: Marvel launches the Secret Wars; includes the introduction of a Spider-Man black suit in issue #8.
  
• Nov 1984: Albedo Anthropomorphics #2 contains Stan Sakai’s “The Goblin of Adachigahara”, introducing Usagi Yojimbo.
  
• 1984: Antarctic Press, Continuity Comics, Deluxe Comics, Matrix Graphic Series, and Renegade Press launch comic publication.
  

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Here is my line of reasoning:

 

1955-1969 Silver Age

1970-1982 Bronze Age

1983-1996 Copper Age

 

My line of reasoning is that late 1982, early1983 was the real beginning of the Independent push & the influence of Diamond on direct distribution. It was also the beginning of the influence of toy-based characters on comics (G.I. Joe, Smurfs and He-Man, soon to be followed by Transformers and the Marvel Star line).

 

If the Bronze Age is best remembered for the grittier, more realistic stories that affected existing superheroes (ASM # 121, 122) and the development of the ant-hero (Punisher), then the Copper Age should be remembered for the massive influx of non traditional heroes (independents) and the strong tie in with existing tv franchises. At least, that makes sense to me.

 

As for when it died out, 1996 is kinda of arbitrary, but its symbolic of the "death" of the original Marvel titles via the Onslaught storyline as well as the thorough weeding out of LCS' following the direct market collapse that took place from 1994-1996.

 

 

[DeliBebek]

Such a detailed list may be a case of missing the forest for all the trees. I'm sure that most of that list can be consolidated in groups to represent certain trends in the industry. Those trends are what define it, not just a single issue. The single issue is simply the first real instance of the defining trend.

 

In my opinion.

[Murphman13]

I'll add two more

 

March '82 - Marvel Fanfare created as an upscale comic to showcase the talents of notable artists.

 

Sometime in '82 - Micronauts, Kazar and Moon Knight stop distributing to newstands and go only to comic shops and subscriptions.

[Bosco685]

Such a detailed list may be a case of missing the forest for all the trees. I'm sure that most of that list can be consolidated in groups to represent certain trends in the industry. Those trends are what define it, not just a single issue. The single issue is simply the first real instance of the defining trend.

 

In my opinion.

Oh, I get what you are saying. Too many trends being tracked to arrive at a single conclusion will steer you in multiple directions.

 

That list, which Vince started, makes for a better understanding that there was a lot of activity going on which helped the market arrive at this new period. No one book did the trick.

 

And what an amazing time to get back into comics. It was a wonderful experience up until the point the market was flooded with bad ideas and unfulfilling books which added no value.

[Bosco685]

Here is my line of reasoning:

 

1955-1969 Silver Age

1970-1982 Bronze Age

1983-1996 Copper Age

 

My line of reasoning is that late 1982, early1983 was the real beginning of the Independent push & the influence of Diamond on direct distribution. It was also the beginning of the influence of toy-based characters on comics (G.I. Joe, Smurfs and He-Man, soon to be followed by Transformers and the Marvel Star line).

 

If the Bronze Age is best remembered for the grittier, more realistic stories that affected existing superheroes (ASM # 121, 122) and the development of the ant-hero (Punisher), then the Copper Age should be remembered for the massive influx of non traditional heroes (independents) and the strong tie in with existing tv franchises. At least, that makes sense to me.

 

As for when it died out, 1996 is kinda of arbitrary, but its symbolic of the "death" of the original Marvel titles via the Onslaught storyline as well as the thorough weeding out of LCS' following the direct market collapse that took place from 1994-1996.

 

 

I can definitely appreciate your valid points. It just seems like depending on what someone relates to from that transition period (1980-1984), this seems to be what they lean towards for the starting point.

 

But you are right in that the anti-hero trend was taking off in the Bronze Age. But it seemed to really stick when it came to the Copper Age with the Watchmen and V For Vendetta mini-series, and other books that flourished due to this theme.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I hate to sound like Roy here, but there really is no right or wrong answer.

 

I mean, the Silver Age is still in debate for most folks (1956 or 1961) depending on whether you are a DC or Marvel fan primarily.

 

I can buy pretty much any argument for either 1982, 1983, or 1984. 1980-1981 was almost certainly too early, and 1985-1986 is almost certainly too late in my opinion. It is very much like practicing revisionist history and selectively molding the facts to your cookie cutter view of how things occured. Fun, and makes for good discusion, but ultimately non-productive.

[Bosco685]

Royisms.

 

You are so right on why there is such a difference of opinion on comic ages. Asking an entire market with many collecting focuses to have a common view on things never results in 100% agreement. If you are a big Marvel fan, it will be driven by that company. DC, the same. And if you have a dedicated title you love, it may even be driven by that series/character.

 

Just imagine trying to convince an Alf fan that series had no impact.

 

 

Everyone knows he was the inspiration for the Predator franchise, right?

[B-Smooth]

I hate to sound like Roy here, but there really is no right or wrong answer.

 

I mean, the Silver Age is still in debate for most folks (1956 or 1961) depending on whether you are a DC or Marvel fan primarily.

 

I can buy pretty much any argument for either 1982, 1983, or 1984. 1980-1981 was almost certainly too early, and 1985-1986 is almost certainly too late in my opinion. It is very much like practicing revisionist history and selectively molding the facts to your cookie cutter view of how things occured. Fun, and makes for good discusion, but ultimately non-productive.

For me personally, I've always considered the start of the copper age NTT 1.

[Bosco685]

I hate to sound like Roy here, but there really is no right or wrong answer.

 

I mean, the Silver Age is still in debate for most folks (1956 or 1961) depending on whether you are a DC or Marvel fan primarily.

 

I can buy pretty much any argument for either 1982, 1983, or 1984. 1980-1981 was almost certainly too early, and 1985-1986 is almost certainly too late in my opinion. It is very much like practicing revisionist history and selectively molding the facts to your cookie cutter view of how things occured. Fun, and makes for good discusion, but ultimately non-productive.

For me personally, I've always considered the start of the copper age NTT 1.

 

As a New Teen Titan fan, I always leaned towards DC Comics Presents #26. But then that is too DC-focused, and doesn't account for other influences from Marvel and the independent market.

 

That's what changed my mind during a few of these discussions.

[B-Smooth]

True. I am more of a Marvel collector, myself. In that respect, I could see the age starting with Wolverine 1. The problem with that, is that GI Joe 1 came before Wolverine, and I never considered Joe 1 beginning of the copper age. It is definitely not a bronze book. I think it's just easier for me to go with NTT 1, because of the 1980 time stamp. Like Conan being 1970, etc. Just easier to remember.

[Bosco685]

I totally agree and understand.

 

When you look at some of the titles/companies that pop up between 1980-1983 alone, you can see they would be oddly placed if they were called Bronze Age. It definitely makes for a challenging period to lock down.

[vaillant]

I think it is more reasonable to think of certain time spans which can be seen as the transition period between what is labeled as an Age and the following.

 

In this sense, each publisher can and in fact is placed differently within these time spans. Since I am interested primarily in the Marvel age, I can tell you that for me a big, decisive factor as far as Marvel goes, has been Jim Shooter becoming editor-in-chief. For better or worse his decisions were definitely outside the Bronze Age.

[bababooey]

I don't give these transitions much thought but I used the time machine @ DCindexes just to form an opinion to give Bosco a new post in his thread.

 

From a Marvel perspective I'd say Bronze ended in the last half of 1982 (July - December); in my mind a transition between eras has to include both end points & start points.

Copper start indicators

Wolverine mini (also Hercules & Vision/Scarlet Witch)

Paul Smith starts on Uncanny

Roger Stern on ASM & intro Hobgoblin ASM 238

New Mutants trade & #1 for ongoing series

Epic comics Dreadstar #1

Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe series begins

Starlin Warlock issues reprinted in prestige mini series

 

Bronze end indicators

Hank Pym's character ruined Avengers

FF 250 anniversary issue, the good part of the Byrne run is over as proven by the sideways issue 252

End of Miller DD run 191

 

Other than the DD Miller issues none of the above are strong indicators of a defined end point but when I look at that period, almost all the formerly good to great Bronze series were circling the drain - Marvel Team Up, Marvel Two in One, Master of Kung Fu, Defenders, Power Man & Iron Fist, What If, even Micronauts.

The junior late bronze books like Spiderwoman, Ghost Rider, Kazar, Moon Knight & Rom continued sucking as usual or maybe they didn't suck but I just didn't bother with them.

 

 

For the DC side of things, my exposure is limited. I think of early New Teen Titans as bronze maybe as late as Judas Contract, later issues & the baxter paper reboot as copper, not sure how that marries up with 86/87 - DKR/Year 1, Crisis, Justice League reboot & Byrne Superman which are all copper.

 

I think for the big two the transitions were different.

 

Marvel trended down from early 80's whereas DC had Marvel's bronze talent (Perez, Byrne, Miller) come over and they enjoyed a short renaissance. So DC's bronze age ended later than Marvel's or maybe DC was the only company who had the "bropper or cronze age" that I've seen reference to here. Do those two terms means different things?

 

These Saturday morning burblings are sponsored by Tim Horton's ®

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2013 by bababooey

[Neeidea]

If you believe in a Copper Age then it really has to start in March 1982, no transition just straight in there, but then again I am bias

Edited April 6, 2013 by Neeidea

[vaillant]

Paul Smith starts on Uncanny

This one eludes me. Why should it indicate a transition?

 

Hank Pym's character ruined Avengers

What do you mean?

 

The junior late bronze books like Spiderwoman, Ghost Rider, Kazar, Moon Knight & Rom continued sucking as usual or maybe they didn't suck but I just didn't bother with them.

I can’t see much connetion between these titles. Spider-Woman had been one of the most interesting and very likely important series of the late bronze age.

[Bosco685]

I think it is more reasonable to think of certain time spans which can be seen as the transition period between what is labeled as an Age and the following.

 

In this sense, each publisher can and in fact is placed differently within these time spans. Since I am interested primarily in the Marvel age, I can tell you that for me a big, decisive factor as far as Marvel goes, has been Jim Shooter becoming editor-in-chief. For better or worse his decisions were definitely outside the Bronze Age.

 

I always considered Shooter tied to helping usher in the Copper Age with his work at Marvel, so this makes sense to me. His leadership from 1978-1987, and his Direct Market focus in 1981 with Dazzler #1, definitely made some good and bad changes.

 

Oddly enough, in a January 2012 interview he made a 180 on the Direct Market decision and started saying the Direct Market focus by Marvel was a mistake. He felt the Newsstand Market focus helped capture new reades by being in c-stores, big book stores, etc. Then those new readers would end up coming to comic stores for more. So he felt there should have been an equal focus to maintain and grow both.

[Bosco685]

If you believe in a Copper Age then it really has to start in March 1982, no transition just straight in there, but then again I am bias

 

 

• The debut of Alan Moore's new, darker Marvelman in Warrior #1.
  
• The debut of Alan Moore and David Lloyd's V for Vendetta in Warrior #1.
  
• Justice League of America #200: 76-page anniversary issue, "A League Divided". The double-sized issue was a "jam" featuring a story written by Gerry Conway, a framing sequence drawn by George Pérez, and chapters drawn by Pat Broderick, Jim Aparo, Giordano, Gil Kane, Carmine Infantino, Brian Bolland, and Joe Kubert. Bolland's chapter gave the artist his "first stab at drawing Batman."
  
• DC's horror-suspense anthology Secrets of Haunted House ceases publication with issue #46.
  
• Flash Gordon (1966 series), with issue #37, is cancelled by the Gold Key Comics imprint Whitman Comics.
  
• Underground cartoonist Dave Sheridan dies at age 39.
  
• March 27: Britain's weekly Eagle comic relaunched by IPC Media in a mostly photonovel format.
  

 

I'm thinking you are leaning towards the Warrior #1 publication.

[Bosco685]

I think for the big two the transitions were different.

I totally agree, though both had some interesting changes taking place in the 1980-1982 period.

 

These Saturday morning burblings are sponsored by Tim Horton's ®

 

 

[bababooey]

Paul Smith starts on Uncanny

This one eludes me. Why should it indicate a transition?

 

Hank Pym's character ruined in the Avengers

What do you mean?

 

The junior late bronze books like Spiderwoman, Ghost Rider, Kazar, Moon Knight & Rom continued sucking as usual or maybe they didn't suck but I just didn't bother with them.

I can’t see much connetion between these titles. Spider-Woman had been one of the most interesting and very likely important series of the late bronze age.

These are all personal opinions & I was just scrolling through the DC index thing and comparing it to the list earlier in this thread. Just talking out of my butt really..

 

Paul Smith coming on X-men was exciting at the time, I liked his art and hadn't liked anything since Byrne on that book, I'm a bronze age Byrne fanboy & Smith was hyped as the second coming of JB in bullpen bulletins and fanzines etc..that's the way I remember it.

 

Hank Pym's character was wrecked in Avengers (see above correction) - one of my first K-mart books was MTU 59 & that Yellowjacket was cool, very cool and & greatly respected by Spidey in that MTU story. A lot of stuff happened around Avengers 211-220 maybe later also that ruined him for me.

 

I bought the early Spider-woman stuff; one of my first #1 issues ever (w/Devil Dinosaur & Machine Man I think) - beyond issue 17 or 18 I dropped it, that's why I lumped it in with other stuff that I wasn't interested in - there's really not much of a connection.

 

I probably made a mistake including any reference to the junior bronze stuff because my point was really about the other larger run bronze books circling the drain.