SPARKLE CITY TO AUCTION MAJOR COLLECTION APRIL 14th!

[nearmint]

Of course, anyone has the right to do whatever they like with their private property, but when it comes to tape, I have more respect for those who resist the urge.

[peewee22]

Of course, anyone has the right to do whatever they like with their private property, but when it comes to tape, I have more respect for those who resist the urge.

 

[miraclemet]

Here's what it comes down to:

 

1. Sellers are incentivized to tape detached books by getting grade bumps. Despite Sparke City saying that "CGC does not bump grades for tape", we know that is not true (maybe they dont bump grades for taping spine splits, but they certainly do for reattaching detached covers/centerfolds).

 

2. Sparkle City is in service of their clients who consign books to them for sale. Sparkle City's goal is to serve their client, and to make them as much money as possible for their books. This means best practices for listings, high quality scans, advertising, etc... It also means offering options like restoration, pressing, and yes even taping if Sparkle City thinks it will serve their clients. (It is also in Sparkes interest to maximize $$ since they typically take a percentage of total sale value). All of this is perfectly ethical, legal and does not kill baby sea otters, nor does it cause cancer. They dont shill as far as I am aware, they dont pull auctions that are going to close below market; those are the actually unethical acts that we see occur out there in comic book auction land...

 

3. Now Sparkle has said that they "try to avoid using tape" (which makes sense since there is some stigma attached to it by some of the collecting community), but what they havent said is that they present it as an option to their customers, who I am assuming in at least some cases are oblivious to their restoration, pressing and taping options (and the possible impact to both the book and to the final sale price). They've circuitously said that when a customer asks for tape they tape, what they haven't said is that the customers ask for it because Sparkle offered it as an option, or even encouraged it.

 

Sparkle just be straight and say

 

"We get consignments in, we consult with the owner and tell them the options of how to deal with the books and the various pros/cons (including grading vs leaving raw, leaving a book unrestored vs restoring, etc), if a seller decides they want to use tape, we oblige since we are there to serve our clients.

 

When there is no more financial incentive to tape, we will stop taping. When there is no more financial incentive to press, we will stop pressing."

 

I care less about tape than I do circular talk around the truth of the matter.

 

[adamstrange]

I agree. If I could choose between two identical books, one with tape one without, obviously I'd choose the one without. But what about two CGC 4.0s. One with tape that you can't see that looks like a 5.5, and one with no tape that looks like the 4.0 it was assigned. Any argument that the taped copy might be preferable to some since inside a CGC holder all you can see is the cover anyway? Or is anyone who thinks that way a fool who's book is going to start turning brown from the inside out?

 

 

I'm not sure I understand your question. Assuming a book is taped because there is a tear or spine split, then the presence of archival or non-archival tape should never improve the grade as the tear/split still exists and should always be used when grading the book.

 

If it's non-archival tape, I would prefer that the book be further down-graded because the tape has already caused additional damage. Furthermore, the adhesive will continue seep into the pages even while the book is in the slab and result in noticeably faster deterioration of the paper due to the acids in the adhesive.

 

From an aesthetic standpoint, tape on the interior might be preferable but it will still do the same damage as tape on the exterior.

[adamstrange]

Would you buy Coke and Doritos with tape all over them?

 

Depends on the flavor of the tape. Could it be bacon? I could totally get into that.

[Filter81]

 

I'm not sure I understand your question. Assuming a book is taped because there is a tear or spine split, then the presence of archival or non-archival tape should never improve the grade as the tear/split still exists and should always be used when grading the book.

 

If it's non-archival tape, I would prefer that the book be further down-graded because the tape has already caused additional damage. Furthermore, the adhesive will continue seep into the pages even while the book is in the slab and result in noticeably faster deterioration of the paper due to the acids in the adhesive.

 

From an aesthetic standpoint, tape on the interior might be preferable but it will still do the same damage as tape on the exterior.

 

I agree with you the book should be down-graded for tape. But once a book with tape has been downgraded at that point how should the book be viewed in the hobby?

 

When speaking only about CGC books, I think that sometimes CGC graded books with tape notations (on books where you can't see the tape on the exterior) will sometimes have better eye appeal than other books in the same grade. I've always assumed it was maybe because the tape (or whatever defect the tape is fixing) is what brought the grade down and now can't be seen.

 

The same way a 6.5 with a detached centerfold may look better than a 6.5 where the major defect is a water stain on the front cover, since the detached centerfold can't be seen through a CGC case.

 

If I'm looking at two completely different copies of the same book. Same grade. Same price. One has a tape notation and better eye appeal. One has no tape, but inferior eye appeal and inferior page quality. And I have the option of buying one or the other, with the intention of owning whichever copy I choose for a long time. Am I making a mistake if I choose to buy the copy that has tape on it because it looks better? And if so, how long before the damage becomes severe enough that I regret my decision? Will a book stored in a CGC holder age better? Or will the tape deteriorate the same way as a book stored in a barn for 40 years?

 

I've seen what really old books with tape look like. Sometimes they look nasty. Other times they look like they've held up pretty well. If I knew that for the next 15 years the book I'm buying was going to look pretty much the same as it does today (even if the tape does cause some level of long term harm to the paper), I'd buy the copy with tape and be happy with my purchase. If I were to find out that over that time the more likely outcome is that tape will turn brown and begin to stain the front and back covers from the inside out, that would probably cause me to change my current purchasing habits.

 

 

 

 

 

[vaillant]

I honestly think CGC should start to introduce a substantial difference between:

 

A1) Books with almost negligible color touch;

A2) Restored books.

 

B1) Books with removable archival materials (i.e. archival tape, the good varieties) put to prevent the book from falling apart;

B2) Books with tape, which unquestionably can damage it.

 

No one would think to repair with tape a 16th century book, so I can’t see why one should do so on a 20th century paper artifact.

[Knightsofold]

I simply can't see why tape would make the books grade higher???

 

A taped centerfold is the same as a loose centerfold except it now has tape on it...

 

I don't get it.

 

 

[nearmint]

I simply can't see why tape would make the books grade higher???

 

A taped centerfold is the same as a loose centerfold except it now has tape on it...

 

I don't get it.

 

 

They don't treat it that way. They do downgrade for the tape, but they don't downgrade for a loose centerfold if it's attached with tape. That's why you see an upgrade for a cover reattached with tape. The downgrade for the tape is less than the downgrade would have been if the cover was detached.

 

In my opinion, and I emailed my thoughts to Paul, comic covers are attached with staples. A cover reattached with tape should be treated as detached, and graded down for the tape.

[adamstrange]

In my opinion, and I emailed my thoughts to Paul, comic covers are attached with staples. A cover reattached with tape should be treated as detached, and graded down for the tape.

It would never have occurred to me that anyone would think the taped version would be higher in grade. It should be lower.

[adamstrange]

Am I making a mistake if I choose to buy the copy that has tape on it because it looks better? And if so, how long before the damage becomes severe enough that I regret my decision? Will a book stored in a CGC holder age better? Or will the tape deteriorate the same way as a book stored in a barn for 40 years?

This is an excellent question for someone that has researched paper deterioration and conservation. There will be some variability in the answer as the different adhesives are used for different types of tape and and have varied over time.

[AmazingSaul]

Sorry guys but tape will damage the book in a scale of maybe 40 years if preserved. So ill buy my book with some tape and regret it when I am probably 70? this isn't a joke. I know some people hate tape. But it should be fine inside the cgc case. Unless your planning on living that long it shouldn't matter unless its personal.

[AmazingSaul]

I never tape my books. I buy books with a little tape. Just to make my above comment clear.

[nearmint]

I wouldn't go near a taped book. Even if it didn't bother me, I wouldn't touch them until CGC announces their new policy in regards to tape.

[AmazingSaul]

I completely understand that, but a guy like me doesn't have 20k to spend on a unrestored book. The only way to get my hands on that type of book is either a purple label or a taped book. It brings down the price and I can have my book. It's just one of those things... I personally only get a taped book when I have no other choice. It was the only way I got my batman 1.

[skypinkblu]

I wouldn't go near a taped book. Even if it didn't bother me, I would touch them until CGC announces their new policy in regards to tape.

 

Did you buy them before? I got the impression you always avoided them.

 

I bought one by accident a few weeks ago, and not an inexpensive one. I still love it, I'm not sending him to a home for ruined comics. My guess is the tape is 50 years old and you barely see it, it did not raise the grade.

 

That being said, I feel totally differently about people deliberately taping books with the bad tape to raise a grade...now that people know about the glue and staining, etc.

[drbanner]

I completely understand that, but a guy like me doesn't have 20k to spend on a unrestored book. The only way to get my hands on that type of book is either a purple label or a taped book. It brings down the price and I can have my book.

 

I don't think you quite understand what's going on here - a book has a detached cover and no tape anywhere, it grades out at 2.0 (for example), it's a big book but since it's only a 2.0, you can buy it for $10k (for example). Now, someone puts some damaging tape on the interior spine of the cover to "reattach" the cover, CGC now erroneously and unexplicably grades it as a 4.0 (for example), and now you have to pay $20k for it (for example), even though it's no longer a 2.0, it's really a 1.5 (for example) disguised by CGC as a 4.0.

 

So you're not getting the book cheaper because it has tape, you're having to pay more for a book that is in worse condition than it was in when it was a 2.0 with a detached cover and no tape.

[AmazingSaul]

That part I understand but I think it depends where you go. But your right tape can alter the grade.

 

I do feel though SC gets very high prices for taped books. This isn't a trend in other places as you can get the books with that same alteration much cheaper. It's just in certain houses this happens. These houses have ALOT of clients who don't care. I don't usually buy taped altered books but I do buy books with some tape. I get those at discount prices but only major keys.

[AmazingSaul]

Also I don't blame SC. They are doing their job. It's like going to a car dealer and the dealer gives you the car facts, you say "I don't care here's 50k" and you walk off with a pinto that doesn't run. Hey now I wouldn't pass up a deal like that if I was the dealer. You can't blame them for selling it in a Auction style. Plus there are cgc notes. Like I said I think it has to do with buyers not caring.

[nearmint]

I wouldn't go near a taped book. Even if it didn't bother me, I wouldn't touch them until CGC announces their new policy in regards to tape.

 

Did you buy them before? I got the impression you always avoided them.

 

 

That's correct. I avoid them like the plague. I only meant that if I were a collector that wasn't bothered by tape, I'd still avoid it until CGC has sorted out how it's going to treat tape from here on out.