Post your newest Pedigrees!!! 7 7

[DarkKnightReturns]

 

Respectfully disagree in the case of pedigrees and signature series. Every comic is owned temporarily, and the owner is a custodian. For pedigree comics with a provenance, the custodial responsibility can be argued to be more important than the circumstance of the owner of the moment. According to this argument, preserving the provenance and historical nature of a pedigree comic is a responsibility of the custodian. To those holding this view, pressing and creator signatures run counter to the custodial responsibility.

 

 

Well put and I totally agree.

With so many low grade, restored examples of books out there why use a high grade pedigree for a signature.

Exactly. I just got an Avengers 4 in .5 that was signed by Stan Lee. Yep .5 it was missing a non story page.

 

That is one mighty nice .5 though,but perfect for sig. series.

Not a ped but here is a .5 SS

[Cimm]

Peds + sigs!! Killer books!!

To me these books are no longer peds. Their ped history has been skewed. They were newsstand fresh OO comics but now they've got black marker on them.

They are still the same books with the same provenance. I think the term "OO" is thrown around way to much. They ceased to be OO books the moment they were sold. Now they are just books with a solid history owned by someone who probably likes them the way they are. To each his own.

 

Respectfully disagree in the case of pedigrees and signature series. Every comic is owned temporarily, and the owner is a custodian. For pedigree comics with a provenance, the custodial responsibility can be argued to be more important than the circumstance of the owner of the moment. According to this argument, preserving the provenance and historical nature of a pedigree comic is a responsibility of the custodian. To those holding this view, pressing and creator signatures run counter to the custodial responsibility.

Would you really want a creator signature on a top census example of a rare GA comic from the Church collection?

 

Yes

 

Absolutely, and without hesitation. It only enhances the pedigree.

[DarkKnightReturns]

Enhances the pedigree ? How so ?

[Cimm]

Well, the pedigree itself is all about history, traceability, and point of origin. A creators signature, especially an important, legacy-type creator, like Lily Renee, Alex Toth, Frank Frazetta, Neal Adams, Berni Wrightson, Robert Crumb, and so on, just adds to the historicity of the item, adds a fresh point of traceability that ties back to the absolute origin of the book, and the work found therein. In essence, adds to the pedigree.

[Guest Grails]

Respectfully disagree in the case of pedigrees and signature series. Every comic is owned temporarily, and the owner is a custodian. For pedigree comics with a provenance, the custodial responsibility can be argued to be more important than the circumstance of the owner of the moment. According to this argument, preserving the provenance and historical nature of a pedigree comic is a responsibility of the custodian. To those holding this view, pressing and creator signatures run counter to the custodial responsibility.

 

Would you really want a creator signature on a top census example of a rare GA comic from the Church collection?

 

Absolutely.

 

 

I agree with the "custodial responsibility" concept despite it sounding a little dramatic. And I've done my part by adding to the significance of this book. I know that long after I'm gone, it will be in the hands of someone who will truly appreciate it.

 

 

[Cimm]

Respectfully disagree in the case of pedigrees and signature series. Every comic is owned temporarily, and the owner is a custodian. For pedigree comics with a provenance, the custodial responsibility can be argued to be more important than the circumstance of the owner of the moment. According to this argument, preserving the provenance and historical nature of a pedigree comic is a responsibility of the custodian. To those holding this view, pressing and creator signatures run counter to the custodial responsibility.

 

Would you really want a creator signature on a top census example of a rare GA comic from the Church collection?

 

Absolutely.

 

 

I agree with the "custodial responsibility" concept despite it sounding a little dramatic. And I've done my part by adding to the significance of this book. I know that long after I'm gone, it will be in the hands of someone who will truly appreciate it.

 

 

[DarkKnightReturns]

Well, the pedigree itself is all about history, traceability, and point of origin. A creators signature, especially an important, legacy-type creator, like Lily Renee, Alex Toth, Frank Frazetta, Neal Adams, Berni Wrightson, Robert Crumb, and so on, just adds to the historicity of the item, adds a fresh point of traceability that ties back to the absolute origin of the book, and the work found therein. In essence, adds to the pedigree.

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Take the Tally Ho Frazetta for example that someone had signed. Edgar Church stored these books away and they survived in beautiful condition. Many years later Joe Schmoe has them signed and changes their appearance from the rest of the collection. When Church had this comic it had no sig. To me it compromises the integrity of the collection. What I'm trying to say is that it creates disparity within the pedigree collection. Every time a ped is signed there is a great disturbance in the force.

[BroccoliDiesel]

Well, the pedigree itself is all about history, traceability, and point of origin. A creators signature, especially an important, legacy-type creator, like Lily Renee, Alex Toth, Frank Frazetta, Neal Adams, Berni Wrightson, Robert Crumb, and so on, just adds to the historicity of the item, adds a fresh point of traceability that ties back to the absolute origin of the book, and the work found therein. In essence, adds to the pedigree.

 

Couldnt agree more.. These artists and writers are now in their twilight so to preserve a verified sig by the creator on the best possible copy makes sense to me. Peds are usually in amazing condition which means it will take much longer than a .5 copy to fade into dust.

[Guest Grails]

Its all just opinions and preferences. However, the argument that is frequently made about losing the pedigree is simply false. A Church book will always be a book that was owned by Edgar Church regardless whether it was restored, pressed or signed. That can not be taken away. Speaking plainly, I could not care less about Edgar Church. He was a collector just like the rest of us.

[namisgr]

This is a very good discussion, and I see your point about enhancing the comic through a creator signature. However, it isn't really Edgar Church who's at the center of the discussion about your comic, but rather the comic that came from his collection with those thousands of other incredibly preserved comics. With singular pedigree collections like the Church, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. To some people, any change in the parts from their original state of preservation (pressing or signatures) detracts from the whole.

 

It's not something I would have done to a pedigree comic, but have to admit a well-paced signature from an old, revered creator can look very cool, like it does on your Church copy.

 

As to those Bowling Green copies? I prefer their look fresh from the collection:

 

 

[Cimm]

Well, the pedigree itself is all about history, traceability, and point of origin. A creators signature, especially an important, legacy-type creator, like Lily Renee, Alex Toth, Frank Frazetta, Neal Adams, Berni Wrightson, Robert Crumb, and so on, just adds to the historicity of the item, adds a fresh point of traceability that ties back to the absolute origin of the book, and the work found therein. In essence, adds to the pedigree.

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Take the Tally Ho Frazetta for example that someone had signed. Edgar Church stored these books away and they survived in beautiful condition. Many years later Joe Schmoe has them signed and changes their appearance from the rest of the collection. When Church had this comic it had no sig. To me it compromises the integrity of the collection. What I'm trying to say is that it creates disparity within the pedigree collection. Every time a ped is signed there is a great disturbance in the force.

 

I love that Tally Ho, and think that the boardie that got it signed did the absolute best thing he could've. Now, the copy in the highest state of preservation on the planet has a verified authentic signature by the late, great Frank Frazetta on it, and there will never be a more desirable copy of Tally Ho to own. It's the Church copy + the highest graded signed CGC SS copy... It just doesn't get any better than that!

[october]

Well, the pedigree itself is all about history, traceability, and point of origin. A creators signature, especially an important, legacy-type creator, like Lily Renee, Alex Toth, Frank Frazetta, Neal Adams, Berni Wrightson, Robert Crumb, and so on, just adds to the historicity of the item, adds a fresh point of traceability that ties back to the absolute origin of the book, and the work found therein. In essence, adds to the pedigree.

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Take the Tally Ho Frazetta for example that someone had signed. Edgar Church stored these books away and they survived in beautiful condition. Many years later Joe Schmoe has them signed and changes their appearance from the rest of the collection. When Church had this comic it had no sig. To me it compromises the integrity of the collection. What I'm trying to say is that it creates disparity within the pedigree collection. Every time a ped is signed there is a great disturbance in the force.

 

I love that Tally Ho, and think that the boardie that got it signed did the absolute best thing he could've. Now, the copy in the highest state of preservation on the planet has a verified authentic signature by the late, great Frank Frazetta on it, and there will never be a more desirable copy of Tally Ho to own. It's the Church copy + the highest graded signed CGC SS copy... It just doesn't get any better than that!

 

Until someone cracks it out. Then it simply becomes some marker on the cover (at least to future owners or prospective buyers).

 

On the other hand, it could mean that the book would remain in its tomb forever in order to maintain the signature verification, which is also a shame. Hard to enjoy the white pages, newsstand freshness and smell of a Church copy through all that plastic.

[cheetah]

Respectfully disagree in the case of pedigrees and signature series. Every comic is owned temporarily, and the owner is a custodian. For pedigree comics with a provenance, the custodial responsibility can be argued to be more important than the circumstance of the owner of the moment. According to this argument, preserving the provenance and historical nature of a pedigree comic is a responsibility of the custodian. To those holding this view, pressing and creator signatures run counter to the custodial responsibility.

 

Would you really want a creator signature on a top census example of a rare GA comic from the Church collection?

 

Absolutely.

 

 

I agree with the "custodial responsibility" concept despite it sounding a little dramatic. And I've done my part by adding to the significance of this book. I know that long after I'm gone, it will be in the hands of someone who will truly appreciate it.

 

 

The entire color scheme on this one is excellent. From the gold pen to the yellow label accentuating the color of the plane, it really makes the artwork pop. Kind of like finding the perfect matting for a frame piece of art. I generally don't like sigs on anything but moderns but this one accentuated the artwork rather than detracted from it. Very nice book.

[DrWatson]

Until someone cracks it out. Then it simply becomes some marker on the cover (at least to future owners or prospective buyers).

 

On the other hand, it could mean that the book would remain in its tomb forever in order to maintain the signature verification, which is also a shame. Hard to enjoy the white pages, newsstand freshness and smell of a Church copy through all that plastic.

The book can easily be cracked out, enjoyed and then re-certified with the yellow label, as long as it is front of a CGC employee or authorized witness. Furthermore, I love it when someone refers to a slabbed book as a plastic tomb when it's something they disagree with, but when it benefits them with a pile of cash from a 9.6 or 9.8 label they are mysteriously silent.

[adamstrange]

Until someone cracks it out. Then it simply becomes some marker on the cover (at least to future owners or prospective buyers).

 

On the other hand, it could mean that the book would remain in its tomb forever in order to maintain the signature verification, which is also a shame. Hard to enjoy the white pages, newsstand freshness and smell of a Church copy through all that plastic.

The book can easily be cracked out, enjoyed and then re-certified with the yellow label, as long as it is front of a CGC employee or authorized witness. Furthermore, I love it when someone refers to a slabbed book as a plastic tomb when it's something they disagree with, but when it benefits them with a pile of cash from a 9.6 or 9.8 label they are mysteriously silent.

I've cracked quite a few slabs because I enjoy seeing and reading my books and am not interested in keeping books, to use the loaded phrase, "entombed." I have no problem with books being slabbed for sale and have had some books slabbed prior to being sold as it provides a third party assurance to the buyer of the grade as well as a resto check. I see no contradiction in those positions.

[october]

Until someone cracks it out. Then it simply becomes some marker on the cover (at least to future owners or prospective buyers).

 

On the other hand, it could mean that the book would remain in its tomb forever in order to maintain the signature verification, which is also a shame. Hard to enjoy the white pages, newsstand freshness and smell of a Church copy through all that plastic.

The book can easily be cracked out, enjoyed and then re-certified with the yellow label, as long as it is front of a CGC employee or authorized witness. Furthermore, I love it when someone refers to a slabbed book as a plastic tomb when it's something they disagree with, but when it benefits them with a pile of cash from a 9.6 or 9.8 label they are mysteriously silent.

 

I actually didn't know that. Does the cracking have to be done in front of an employee, along with the re-certification? What's the guarantee that the reslabbed book is the same as the one that was originally broken out?

 

As for my CGC comment, I was talking about a golden age pedigree, not a 9.6 bronze book with 100 books in the census. When it comes to Church copies, it is indeed a "tomb". Tell you what, the day you see me sell a slabbed Church you can point out my hypocrisy. Don't hold your breath.

[DrWatson]

Until someone cracks it out. Then it simply becomes some marker on the cover (at least to future owners or prospective buyers).

 

On the other hand, it could mean that the book would remain in its tomb forever in order to maintain the signature verification, which is also a shame. Hard to enjoy the white pages, newsstand freshness and smell of a Church copy through all that plastic.

The book can easily be cracked out, enjoyed and then re-certified with the yellow label, as long as it is front of a CGC employee or authorized witness. Furthermore, I love it when someone refers to a slabbed book as a plastic tomb when it's something they disagree with, but when it benefits them with a pile of cash from a 9.6 or 9.8 label they are mysteriously silent.

 

I actually didn't know that. Does the cracking have to be done in front of an employee, along with the re-certification? What's the guarantee that the reslabbed book is the same as the one that was originally broken out?

 

As for my CGC comment, I was talking about a golden age pedigree, not a 9.6 bronze book with 100 books in the census. When it comes to Church copies, it is indeed a "tomb". Tell you what, the day you see me sell a slabbed Church you can point out my hypocrisy. Don't hold your breath.

Yes, the cracking out has to be done by a CGC employee in order for it to be re-certified as an SS book. I guess the same guarantee that the signed book that was turned in at the convention is the same signed book that shows up on your doorstep months later.

 

And don't take that comment to heart. It wasn't meant for you... exactly. My point is still the same. With CGC it's either symphony or damned, depending on the tune one decides to hum at the any given moment.

[october]

 

Until someone cracks it out. Then it simply becomes some marker on the cover (at least to future owners or prospective buyers).

 

On the other hand, it could mean that the book would remain in its tomb forever in order to maintain the signature verification, which is also a shame. Hard to enjoy the white pages, newsstand freshness and smell of a Church copy through all that plastic.

The book can easily be cracked out, enjoyed and then re-certified with the yellow label, as long as it is front of a CGC employee or authorized witness. Furthermore, I love it when someone refers to a slabbed book as a plastic tomb when it's something they disagree with, but when it benefits them with a pile of cash from a 9.6 or 9.8 label they are mysteriously silent.

 

I actually didn't know that. Does the cracking have to be done in front of an employee, along with the re-certification? What's the guarantee that the reslabbed book is the same as the one that was originally broken out?

 

As for my CGC comment, I was talking about a golden age pedigree, not a 9.6 bronze book with 100 books in the census. When it comes to Church copies, it is indeed a "tomb". Tell you what, the day you see me sell a slabbed Church you can point out my hypocrisy. Don't hold your breath.

Yes, the cracking out has to be done by a CGC employee in order for it to be re-certified as an SS book. I guess the same guarantee that the signed book that was turned in at the convention is the same signed book that shows up on your doorstep months lat

And don't take that comment to heart. It wasn't meant for you... exactly. My point is still the same. With CGC it's either symphony or damned, depending on the tune one decides to hum at the any given moment.

 

I wasn't understanding. The uncertified SS book can never be out of the sight of the winess, correct? They can't crack it in front of CGC, take it home, and re-cert at a later date? That's why I was wondering how CGC could guarantee it was the same book.

[DrWatson]

I wasn't understanding. The uncertified SS book can never be out of the sight of the witness, correct? They can't crack it in front of CGC, take it home, and re-cert at a later date? That's why I was wondering how CGC could guarantee it was the same book.

If I had an SS book I wanted to read (I know. Just suspend your disbelief for a moment, okay.) I would have it cracked out by a CGC employee at the booth such as; Gemma, Bill (when he was there) or Joe. I would have to read the book at the booth and then resubmit it for Signature Series grading. It would still retain the yellow label. Not the best of scenarios convenience wise, but it does provide the opportunity to read, feel or smell a book that most believe to be forever off limits.

[Korvac Saga]

Cheetah as always,

 

Just spectacular!! (worship)