Would You Purchase?

[David Swan]

A Mile High Comic at 2 to 3 times guide

 

There are lots of Pedigree's and from my experience most are priced just about exactly the same as non-Pedigree comics. There might be a slight bump but not much over 5%. However, Mile High comics are priced generally at 2 to 3x guide. There are at least three examples I have in mind of a comic priced at over 2x guide because they are Mile High and they have sat there for at least several years. You might think these are just sellers fishing but I don't get the impression this is the case. I think the sellers truly believe these prices are possible even as the comics sit there.

 

If I were to speculate I would say the Mile High comics were at one time quite desirable but with the influx of other Pedigrees the interest has waned and sellers haven't caught on. Would anyone here spend 2 to 3x guide for the privilege of owning a part of the Mile High collection? Am I simply not recognizing the glory and majesty of Mile High? For me there are just too many other opportunities available to be plunking down a monster premium for a Mile High comic.

 

See more journals by David Swan

[meshuggah]

There's no way I would pay for that. I like the whole pedigree thing, (I don't own any as of now) but I don't understand why anyone should pay that much more especially if you can get the exact same thing without a pedigree for cheaper. I like how wwcomics.com sells many pedigrees and they are marked up just a little over what they charge for the exact same book that isn't a pedigree.

[Jeffro.]

Not all pedigrees are considered equal in quality and scope.

 

Just because there are far more pedigrees out there, it doesn't diminish the Church books. Most pedigrees don't even contain the same comics that are contained within the Church ped.

 

Church/Mile High comics are often considered the best of the best. Are they worth 2-3x guide? Depends on the book and grade.

[Crimebuster]

Depends on the book. Lots of books go for 2-3x guide even without the Mile High pedigree.

[miraclemet]

Not all pedigrees are created equally. More recent Silver-Bronze age pedigrees like the Savannah pedigree often sell for the same price as non-pedigrees. (I think those are the pedigrees that you are referencing on wwcomics.com) Why?

 

1) Page Quality: Lots of Savannah's, and some of the Twin Cities have CR-OW pages, which is a low point for a SA/BA pedigree.

2) Volume: There are lots of Savannah ped books out there, some 40,000 books were in the collection. Far and away the largest pedigree.

 

Also obviously the "collections" like Don Rosa's aren't given any higher value above non-called out collections.

 

In contrast there are pedigrees that are held in high esteem for their "freshness" (sharp colors, high page quality, etc)

 

Pacific Coast, Curator, White Mountain, Mass & Northland Ped books are highly regarded Silver Age pedigrees due to their sharp than average colors and typically white pages.

 

So calling it "the exact same thing" is not entirely accurate as many on the boards would say "not all 9.6s are created equally". For the peds I just mentioned their sample of the book in grade is often the crispest "off the shelf" version of that book you can find in grade.

 

And thats before we get to the idea of owning a book with a good backstory. And a good backstory that is known around the community is even cooler.

 

Edgar Church (Mile High), Okajima, Larson and other more Golden Age pedigress have storied back stories of both how the books were originally collected and how they were discovered later in life and brought to the market. You are paying a premium for the uniqueness, and for the prestige of one of the books that has a specific place in the collecting hobby.

 

I'd love to know what book you are looking at that is 2x guide. Is it 2x the market (considering that guides aren't always exactly accurate representations of market value), or two times Overstreet?I get that you might not want to share for fear that someone will snag it first...

[Jeffro.]

Depends on the book. Lots of books go for 2-3x guide even without the Mile High pedigree.

 

Good point.

 

It generally sucks to pay over guide for anything. However, sometimes the guide itself is high.

 

The guide is just that, a guide.

[miraclemet]

Also I think at most Silver Age Pedigree interest has plateaued due to the additional new pedigrees over the last 5 years (ROcky Mtn, Susha News, Savannah, Twin Cities) which introduced 55,000 new pedigree books to the market (mostly from the Savannah collection)

 

Golden Age interest I think has stayed pretty steady. And considering there's only been 1 new Golden Age Pedigree found/established in the last 5 years (Billy Wright) and it only had 340 books in the collection, the over all GA pedigree demand still out paces the supply.

 

 

[GamingEtc-migration]

I am still confused as to what exactly a pedigree is and why it is important/ matters/ desirable.

[miraclemet]

http://www.comicbookpedigrees.com/pedigree-criteria.php is a decent (though incomplete) site that talks about the role of pedigree collections in the comic book hobby.

 

A pedigree is in essence a collection that has 4 qualities:

 

1. Original Owner. This means the collection was built over the years by the original owner off the comic book rack back in the day. So all the comics come from the same place and were owned by the same person (or their heirs) until the collection was "discovered" and then sold to the market (typically in one fell swoop, though there are instances of it being parsed out).

 

2. Quality: Pedigree books are typically high grade. Collections that are found that get "pedigree" status typlically are high grade. There isnt a set cutoff but it seems to be 8.0 and higher grade books in the collection

 

3. Completeness/Size: Pedigrees arent typically a smattering of books. Some of the smaller collections are uberfocused on a Genre, or on #1 issues, but most Pedigrees represent a high % of the books that were on the market at the time the person was collecting.

 

4. Market Acceptance. Here is the thing. The market has to buy into the pedigree, that means us, CGC, dealers and everyone buys into the importance/value of the collection, and continues to keep the name in the hobby zeitgeist. Now thats far easier today with slabbing and books having their pedigree labeled on the slab, but up until CGC a pedigree was only as memorable as people made it.

 

(agains check http://www.comicbookpedigrees.com/pedigree-criteria.php where much of this info was culled)

[Crimebuster]

I don't own any pedigree books myself. But the one pedigree I would definitely pay more for is Okajima, as I am very interested in the backstory behind it. Certainly value added for me if it's an Okajima book. If there were two copies in the same condition and one was Okajima, I would pay more for it for sure.

[miraclemet]

I don't own any pedigree books myself. But the one pedigree I would definitely pay more for is Okajima, as I am very interested in the backstory behind it. Certainly value added for me if it's an Okajima book. If there were two copies in the same condition and one was Okajima, I would pay more for it for sure.

 

+1 top pedigree on my list

 

Its believed that only 10% or so of the 1200 books in the ped have been slabbed, so there's a lot of raw ones out there to find.

[meshuggah]

The point I was trying to make is if I can get a book thats the exact same grade and page quality then I'm probably not going to pay 2 to 3x plus in price. If its a minimal amount, meaning still in double digit numbers for price difference then I'd probably get the pedigree.

 

Since I brought up wwcomics, what are everyones thoughts on the CVA exceptional copy ratings that are being applied to some of their merchandise?

[Crimebuster]

Since I brought up wwcomics, what are everyones thoughts on the CVA exceptional copy ratings that are being applied to some of their merchandise?

 

Ridiculous scam. I can see with my own two eyes what the book looks like.

 

And if I can't look at the book - which would be the only time a CVA rating would matter - than I am never going to spend the kind of money it would take to buy the type of book that has these stickers anyway. Who buys high grade keys sight unseen?

 

Dumb.

[GamingEtc-migration]

Not to be ignorant but I still don't get it. I don't see how someone else having a book and building a collection would make that book more desireable. What is the difference from a book in the same grade, same page quality etc that is just some random joe blow book, versus this one over here that sat in a specific collection for X amount of time. I'm certainly not trying to on anyone that enjoys this because someone not in to comics at all would probably think collecting any CGC book is crazy, but yeah, I really don't get the pedigree appeal.

[miraclemet]

There is a prestige factor with pedigrees, thus the higher price. Some who collect pedigrees swear by the "best of class" status that pedigrees have over like graded copies (deeper colors due to less fading over time).

 

CVA is useless. Its a statement about what you can already see about a book. Centering, color quality, etc. Some people are using as a marker for "might get a grade bump if resubmitted" but I think thats a fallacy since its assessment is just a visual check of the book after its already holdered. They've already shown that they'll CVA a less than perfect book (centering-wise), so the sticker is useless.

 

If all books were reviewed by CVA and they were accurate it might serve a purpose just from a search parameter (ie doing a search for CGC + CVA you know you will be getting best of breed copies of that book in grade in terms of presentation) but since only 1% of books have been reviewed for CVA, its a useless reference point cause there are plenty of "great presenting" copies of books that havent been CVA stickered... so use your eyes

[meshuggah]

I think its pretty ridiculous since its just someone looking at a cgc holder. I figured most of you guys here would feel the same.

[miraclemet]

Not to be ignorant but I still don't get it. I don't see how someone else having a book and building a collection would make that book more desireable. What is the difference from a book in the same grade, same page quality etc that is just some random joe blow book, versus this one over here that sat in a specific collection for X amount of time. I'm certainly not trying to on anyone that enjoys this because someone not in to comics at all would probably think collecting any CGC book is crazy, but yeah, I really don't get the pedigree appeal.

 

No worries, some people are into pedigrees, and some people dont get them as being any different than any other book.

 

I'm trying to think of a comparison point.

 

Maybe coins is the way to go (caveat I'm soooo not a coin guy)

 

If you had two Spanish doubloons and you knew that one came from a specific famous treasure find from a ship wreckage, while the second was just one that had no provenance but just came from a dealer, who bought it from dealer, who bought it from a collector, who found it in a store, who got it from "somewhere" and the two coins were in the same condition would you imagine the market would value them at the same price?

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Since I brought up wwcomics, what are everyones thoughts on the CVA exceptional copy ratings that are being applied to some of their merchandise?

 

The Boards are an archive of knowledge. There have been 1000s of posts regarding the CVA sticker.

[Crimebuster]

Not to be ignorant but I still don't get it. I don't see how someone else having a book and building a collection would make that book more desireable. What is the difference from a book in the same grade, same page quality etc that is just some random joe blow book, versus this one over here that sat in a specific collection for X amount of time. I'm certainly not trying to on anyone that enjoys this because someone not in to comics at all would probably think collecting any CGC book is crazy, but yeah, I really don't get the pedigree appeal.

 

 

Part of the appeal of many old comics to me is the historical snapshot they give. Yes, I'm interested in the stories inside. And the cover and design are important on an aesthetic level. But a major reason for me to buy, say, Golden Age books from WWII is to see how the war was portrayed at the time, to see what people at the time were reading, how comics were both reflecting and shaping ideas about the war, etc. If we all just wanted to read the stories, after all, we could just view scans online. but a comic is more than the stories, it's a physical artifact. For this reason, I like date stamps and owner's names written on the cover or first page and stuff (within reason).

 

So to have a pedigree book is to know the story of the comic itself. Some of these pedigrees I don't care about the story behind them. A kid bought them and put them in his basement for 50 years? That's not much of a story.

 

Others, though, have much more interesting stories. The Okajima collection was put together by a Japanese-American girl who was sent to an internment camp during World War II. She read and carefully collected comics as an escape from the reality of being stuck in a prison camp. The fact that many of the comics she bought were about the war and often prominently featured Japanese stereotypes and caricatures in the stories and on the covers adds another level of human interest to the comics.

 

For example, a copy I do not own myself - an Okajima Captain America showing Cap wailing on Japanese soldiers:

 

 

 

Seeing the name "Okajima" on the cover - usually accompanied by a hand written date - just adds a lot for me to the story behind the comic. Knowing this girl owned the same copy you own, and read it in a prison camp, that's a big thing for some people, including myself. I'd love to have some of these books some day.

 

 

[revat]

Not to be ignorant but I still don't get it. I don't see how someone else having a book and building a collection would make that book more desireable. What is the difference from a book in the same grade, same page quality etc that is just some random joe blow book, versus this one over here that sat in a specific collection for X amount of time. I'm certainly not trying to on anyone that enjoys this because someone not in to comics at all would probably think collecting any CGC book is crazy, but yeah, I really don't get the pedigree appeal.

 

 

Part of the appeal of many old comics to me is the historical snapshot they give. Yes, I'm interested in the stories inside. And the cover and design are important on an aesthetic level. But a major reason for me to buy, say, Golden Age books from WWII is to see how the war was portrayed at the time, to see what people at the time were reading, how comics were both reflecting and shaping ideas about the war, etc. If we all just wanted to read the stories, after all, we could just view scans online. but a comic is more than the stories, it's a physical artifact. For this reason, I like date stamps and owner's names written on the cover or first page and stuff (within reason).

 

So to have a pedigree book is to know the story of the comic itself. Some of these pedigrees I don't care about the story behind them. A kid bought them and put them in his basement for 50 years? That's not much of a story.

 

Others, though, have much more interesting stories. The Okajima collection was put together by a Japanese-American girl who was sent to an internment camp during World War II. She read and carefully collected comics as an escape from the reality of being stuck in a prison camp. The fact that many of the comics she bought were about the war and often prominently featured Japanese stereotypes and caricatures in the stories and on the covers adds another level of human interest to the comics.

 

For example, a copy I do not own myself - an Okajima Captain America showing Cap wailing on Japanese soldiers:

 

 

 

Seeing the name "Okajima" on the cover - usually accompanied by a hand written date - just adds a lot for me to the story behind the comic. Knowing this girl owned the same copy you own, and read it in a prison camp, that's a big thing for some people, including myself. I'd love to have some of these books some day.

 

 

quite compelling story, and now I want one too. Congrats, you've brought in more people to compete against you in the race for Okajima Pedigrees!