Mark Wilson and PGC

[sagii]

Wow, the lengths some will go through for a higher 'score'. I say leave em as they are. If it's not up your needs, pass until a copy comes along that is. The only hobby where i think restoration is okay, even encouraged(to a degree i'm sure)is the Collector Car world.

[MrBedrock]

The only hobby where i think restoration is okay, even encouraged(to a degree i'm sure)is the Collector Car world.

Movie paper

[Sqeggs]

When I catch the occasional episode of Antiques Roadhouse, it seems as if the experts often suggest that the people bringing stuff in -- furniture, maps, posters, vases, whatever -- have damage fixed.

 

I think comic collectors are unusual in discounting restoration so heavily.

[sacentaur]

I think comic collectors are unusual in discounting restoration so heavily.

 

My sense is that many comic collectors have been misled about restoration by unscrupulous seller(s) at some point(s), leading to a bias.

 

Most of the stuff on Antiques Roadshow hasn't been sold as such to unsuspecting buyers (e.g., they're family heirlooms), so the owners don't share those same negative feelings.

[Sqeggs]

I think comic collectors are unusual in discounting restoration so heavily.

 

My sense is that many comic collectors have been misled about restoration by unscrupulous seller(s) at some point(s), leading to a bias.

 

Most of the stuff on Antiques Roadshow hasn't been sold as such to unsuspecting buyers (e.g., they're family heirlooms), so the owners don't share those same negative feelings.

 

That's a good point. Certainly one of the reasons for CGC's success is that they offered a resto check at a time when some prominent dealers were clearly doing undisclosed work on books.

 

Now that I think about, in some of the AR segments, the expert will say something like: "As it is, your painting (old map, poster, etc.) is worth $X. But if you get the damage fixed, it will be worth $X + $Y."

 

In comic terms, in these cases resto apparently actually increases the prices. There are cases -- furniture comes to mind -- where resto can apparently reduce the price. "Oh, if only you hadn't cleaned this table and removed the original patina!"

[originalisbest]

The simple answer is "it depends." For comics, I like 'em resto-free.

[Hepcat]

Some ten years ago one of the owners of N8k Classic Comics of 119 Dundas Street in London, Ontario told me that the fellows who travelled widely and did many shows were naught but second or third tier dealers. He was specifically putting down one of them from whom I've bought a lot of comics in Toronto over the years. The example that he gave of a top tier dealer was Mark Wilson.

 

It seems that N8k Classic Comics had it backward. I seem to recall that PGCMint was temporarily banned by Ebay about seven years ago for shill bidding.

 

[Hepcat]

They did a great cover of Stairway to Heaven on the Kennedy Center Honors last December.

 

Heart I believe had its beginnings as a Led Zeppelin tribute band. That's why big time Zep fans tend to like Heart as well.

 

[Et-Es-Go]

The list is long, but distinguished

 

 

Cleaned by Wilson. Note the splotchy color loss in the yellow areas. Since it will be a PLOD regardless, I should probably get Matt to color touch it and improve the appearance.

 

This is sad to see. The splotches aren't that bad, though. It's still an attractive copy. I would not touch it up, but I would replace the staples if what Nelson said about the chemicals Mark used making staples rust is true.

 

Mark Wilson is both dizneyart and pgcmint on E-Bay, right? I would be very reluctant to buy from him, even if books are in blue slabs. I know someone who had a PLOD book that noted "cover cleaned;" he resubmitted it and it came back with a blue label, so apparently the CGC doesn't always catch cleaning. (This was 10 years ago or more, so they may have improved.)

 

(PS - Are Mark Wilson and Matt Wilson of Fantasy Masterpieces related?)

 

 

This is how I remember it. Worlds Finest was Mark Wilson's comic selling biz and Fantasy Masterpieces was Matt's restoration biz. I had Matt do some minor work on a few books. The work he did was decent, but a bit more than I asked for. I sent in a Terrific 5 that was in really pretty good shape, just wanted some tear seals around the staples reinforced. It was the "reglossing" that gives the book a funky unnatural look. In the Mylar it's beautiful. In 1995 that was $350. I didn't know better at the time I guess. I still have no problem buying a restored or conserved book, as long as it has been done right. I am sure Mark kicked books to Matt all the time for a quick hair cut and a shave.

 

Matt got himself in trouble with the long arm of the law, that is another story. It was around then that I think Mark was doing some of the work himself.

 

On a separate note, I had Tracy Heft do some work on a #nn Silver Streak. Copious amount of that old Scotch that leave behind that brown residue, but it was holding the spine together. He reinforced the spine from the interior and removed the tape, and that was all I asked for. And I got what I asked for too. He did some nice work just to conserve a book without trying to put a bunch of lip stick on it.

 

I have two books that a guy by the name of Brian Ramey did some work on. Wow, those I would consider having that work removed. I am not a high grade collector and never will be. I enjoy the more non-mainstream titles and those print runs were probably always smaller, thus the books harder to find. Thus we'll done restoration or conservation don't bug me in the least, as long as it is disclosed.

 

 

[woowoo]

I new Mark before he did Resto work.

His brother was not into comics if i am right.

The 80s he did great work and people wanted to upgrade there books and had them restored for a higher grade and to get more money.

 

I have had great dealings with Mark and he graded tight his good was most peoples G/Vg after 1988 dont know if he changed but he was more than fair when i new him and did great work.

[jimjum12]

In the 80's and early 90's there really wasn't that much of a fuss about resto..... in fact many people shopped for books that had good resto potential. If I remember correctly.... Gerber's PhotoJournals, I believe, that had a graph that showed how much of a value INCREASE that one could expect for different grades of books with different degrees of restoration performed. There was nothing nefarious intended at all..... it was pretty open. Unfortunately, many collectors couldn't tell the difference(..and still can't) and bought them without asking or knowing. Some of Anderson's books were purchased by him with color touch already there. Every book I ever bought from Mark was sharp.... I've seen many of the more distinctive ones resurfacing in blue holders. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

..... for the record, I still prefer unrestored and note it if I'm aware, when I make a sale.

 

.....I avoided restored books in the early 90's because, quite frankly, the rice paper felt stiff and the color touch was barely close.... I didn't appreciate GOOD resto until I saw Matt Nelson's work.

[Tri-Color Brian]

The only thing I didn't like about Matt Wilson was his tendency to reinforce staple areas and spines when all you wanted was a clean and press. that really p*ssed me off. I have several books that only needed cleaning and now they have resto...arrrggghhhh! Of course, I don't really consider rice paper to be resto...and I don't think it should be. We should have a debate about what resto really consists of...that would be fun, and I'm sure it's never been done here before...

[ComicConnoisseur]

In the 80's and early 90's there really wasn't that much of a fuss about resto..... in fact many people shopped for books that had good resto potential. If I remember correctly.... Gerber's PhotoJournals, I believe, that had a graph that showed how much of a value INCREASE that one could expect for different grades of books with different degrees of restoration performed. There was nothing nefarious intended at all..... it was pretty open. Unfortunately, many collectors couldn't tell the difference(..and still can't) and bought them without asking or knowing. Some of Anderson's books were purchased by him with color touch already there. Every book I ever bought from Mark was sharp.... I've seen many of the more distinctive ones resurfacing in blue holders. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

..... for the record, I still prefer unrestored and note it if I'm aware, when I make a sale.

 

.....I avoided restored books in the early 90's because, quite frankly, the rice paper felt stiff and the color touch was barely close.... I didn't appreciate GOOD resto until I saw Matt Nelson's work.

I think there wasn`t much fuss because back then there was no internet. In fact a lot of non-comic book shady stuff there was no fuss about. The internet exposed a lot of stuff to a world wide audience that was only whispered about.

Hail the internet for exposing the truth!

[VintageComics]

In the 80's and early 90's there really wasn't that much of a fuss about resto..... in fact many people shopped for books that had good resto potential. If I remember correctly.... Gerber's PhotoJournals, I believe, that had a graph that showed how much of a value INCREASE that one could expect for different grades of books with different degrees of restoration performed. There was nothing nefarious intended at all..... it was pretty open. Unfortunately, many collectors couldn't tell the difference(..and still can't) and bought them without asking or knowing. Some of Anderson's books were purchased by him with color touch already there. Every book I ever bought from Mark was sharp.... I've seen many of the more distinctive ones resurfacing in blue holders. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

..... for the record, I still prefer unrestored and note it if I'm aware, when I make a sale.

 

.....I avoided restored books in the early 90's because, quite frankly, the rice paper felt stiff and the color touch was barely close.... I didn't appreciate GOOD resto until I saw Matt Nelson's work.

I think there wasn`t much fuss because back then there was no internet. In fact a lot of non-comic book shady stuff there was a no fuss about. The internet exposed a lot of stuff to a world wide audience that was only whispered about.

Hail the internet for exposing the truth!

 

No, there wasn't much fuss about it because comics were not nearly as expensive as they were today and resto was being touted as being a good thing and even possibly improving the value of a comic.

 

 

[Hepcat]

No, there wasn't much fuss about it because comics were not nearly as expensive as they were today and resto was being touted as being a good thing and even possibly improving the value of a comic.

 

Restoration was actually supposed to improve the value of a comic, just as restoration improves the value of a piece of original art. All those old master paintings from hundreds of years ago that hang in museums have been restored, several times. None of the paint is original any more. All that remains original is the canvas, yet collectors spend mega millions$ for these pieces. The mind boggles....

 

[VintageComics]

No, there wasn't much fuss about it because comics were not nearly as expensive as they were today and resto was being touted as being a good thing and even possibly improving the value of a comic.

 

Restoration was actually supposed to improve the value of a comic, just as restoration improves the value of a piece of original art. All those old master paintings from hundreds of years ago that hang in museums have been restored, several times. None of the paint is original any more. All that remains original is the canvas, yet collectors spend mega millions$ for these pieces. The mind boggles....

 

 

Obviously that's because there is only a single of each painting and comics are printed in multiples.

 

 

[Tri-Color Brian]

Are you saying there are more than one copy of the same comic?

[Sqeggs]

No, there wasn't much fuss about it because comics were not nearly as expensive as they were today and resto was being touted as being a good thing and even possibly improving the value of a comic.

 

Restoration was actually supposed to improve the value of a comic, just as restoration improves the value of a piece of original art. All those old master paintings from hundreds of years ago that hang in museums have been restored, several times. None of the paint is original any more. All that remains original is the canvas, yet collectors spend mega millions$ for these pieces. The mind boggles....

 

 

That's an overstatement. I don't think there are many Old Masters with no original paint left. I agree with the rest of what you say, though.

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, restoration is considered to increase the value of most non-comic paper collectibles. Of course, my expertise comes largely from watching episodes of Antiques Roadshow.

[rob_react]

No, there wasn't much fuss about it because comics were not nearly as expensive as they were today and resto was being touted as being a good thing and even possibly improving the value of a comic.

 

Restoration was actually supposed to improve the value of a comic, just as restoration improves the value of a piece of original art. All those old master paintings from hundreds of years ago that hang in museums have been restored, several times. None of the paint is original any more. All that remains original is the canvas, yet collectors spend mega millions$ for these pieces. The mind boggles....

 

 

That's an overstatement. I don't think there are many Old Masters with no original paint left. I agree with the rest of what you say, though.

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, restoration is considered to increase the value of most non-comic paper collectibles. Of course, my expertise comes largely from watching episodes of Antiques Roadshow.

 

It's more than an overstatement. No part of that statement is true.

 

Not all old master paintings have been restored multiple times. Not even close. Restoration is an expensive and time consuming process, so not everything goes through the process. Walk through the Louvre and count the dirty paintings. They can't even keep up with that sort of maintenance, forget about more detailed restoration work. The same is true of museums around the world.

 

Additionally, what's most likely to happen with a painting is that it will be CLEANED, not repainted. Repainting generally only happens with damage to the painting. As many (most) of the great old masters have been treasured objects since they were created, not many have damage. Oil paint lasts AND the paintings are varnished. They just get dirty so there is some place for cleaning with most older paintings.

 

(caveat: I'm aware of exceptions to all of this- including paintings that have been doctored to look like other painters and/or paintings that were overpainted by well meaning if misguided restorers in less enlightened times)

[rob_react]

Additionally, even without knowing how this stuff works, you can just look closely at the paintings and know that they were by the same hand. While it is theoretically possible that hundreds of different "restorers" across the world could have consistently repainted Rembrandts dozens of times to consistently look like "Rembrandts" the simpler answer is that the paintings we see are by Rembrandt's hand.