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Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice movie thread for your reading pleasure
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8,095 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Zack Snyder: 'As Superman is dying once he destroys Doomsday, his scream wakes up the sleeping Mother Boxes'

:o

I'd never heard that detail before now.

I didn't get a chance to watch this, any other interesting nuggets?

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6 hours ago, media_junkie said:

I didn't get a chance to watch this, any other interesting nuggets?

It was great, and further enhanced the Ultimate Cut experience.

  • Jimmy Olson was truly Jimmy: Snyder wanted to make it clear this was a dangerous world
  • When Doomsday is standing in Hero's Park and he looks from the statue to Superman, he is realizing what Earth sees as a god is just a man with superpowers
  • Wonder Woman's photo was actually going to be a painting from the Crimean War (1856)
  • Batman's waterside house is purposefully minimalist-like yet the Batcave so extensive to convey the Batman side had consumed him more, while detaching from his real life
  • Superman is very much in touch with his wholesome younger experiences, and just wants to do good, always: why when he looks around at all the bodies from the Congressional explosion he is so emotional because with all his powers he is helpless yet trying to assist
  • Lex Luthor was the abused son from the comics, who always chess plays everything he does: including when he receives Zod's body and looks over at Mercy it is because he realizes she has to die as he has let her know too much of his plans

He was dropping in details throughout like that. Someone recorded and posted the entire thing on Youtube. Check it out.

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Batman v Superman Director Reveals Insane Connection to Justice League Snyder Cut 

Quote

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice director Zack Snyder revealed an insane connection to Justice League’s Snyder Cut. The filmmaker held a livestream of the DCEU film this morning and fans were treated to all kinds of new insight. None of them probably expected Snyder to reveal that there was a huge easter egg in the final fight sequence between Doomsday, Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. In the climactic moment that Superman goes in for the final blow against the monster, he screams out. The Kryptonian’s bellowing would have a domino effect across the DC Universe.

 

Basically, that telltale scream would wake up the dormant Mother Boxes around far and wide. In Justice League, the Mother Boxes are a big plot point, so the groundwork was established back in Batman v Superman during a sequence that fans might not have gotten on the first viewing. Throughout all the changes to the final product, that vision remained unchanged in Snyder’s original take on the film. So, there might still be other details lurking in the mercurial film for eagle-eyed fans. People will probably begin combing through it again now looking for some clue toward how the next two films in the DCEU would have turned out.

 

Many fans still want to see what Snyder could have come up with for Justice League Part Two. Some people associated with the film share their zeal. Fabian Wagner was the cinematographer on Justice League and he’s been a vocal proponent of Snyder’s vision. He would like to see a Snyder Cut release at some point and joked that he was so upset with the final cut of the film that he cried throughout it. Apparently, he’s not a big fan of what Joss Whedon came up with after being brought in.


“It’s really hard to say because I was watching it and I think I was crying all the way through,” Wagner laughed. “So it’s hard for me to say exactly how much was changed, but a lot was changed. It looked very different, and it’s sad for me because I loved working with Zack; I had the best time of my life. There were many other things on that movie that made it so good apart from the fact that I was working with Zack and the whole gang. I met my wife on that job. There [were] a lot of other things. It was just a great shoot, and so it was a shame to see the film the way it turned out to be.”

 

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Warner Bros.' DCEU took its first step under the supervision of Zack Snyder, who helmed MAN OF STEEL, BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE, and half of JUSTICE LEAGUE, but it's clear to all that Snyder's original plan for the franchise was never realized. After stepping down from JUSTICE LEAGUE due to a personal tragedy, Snyder was replaced by Joss Whedon, who re-shot and re-edited JUSTICE LEAGUE to fit a new vision. The results were...well, there's a reason why fans have been demanding Warner Bros. to #ReleasetheSnyderCut for the past three years.

 

Over the weekend, Zack Snyder hosted a live-stream commentary of BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE through social-media app Vero, and revealed a few interesting tidbits about the film, as well as where the original DCEU path may have led.

 

The Final Battle & Mother Boxes

The climax of BATMAN V SUPERMAN found Superman (Henry Cavill), Batman (Ben Affleck), and Wonder Woman (Gal Gadot) teaming up to defeat Doomsday, and Snyder said that it was important for Wonder Woman to be front and center during the Trinity shot as she's the hero with the most experience, plus, she's dealt with monsters before. As we know, Doomsday is defeated at great personal cost, as Superman gives his life to finally put down the powerful monster. Snyder noted that the scream which Superman lets out as he dies, was the sound which would have awakened the Mother Boxes and alerted Steppenwolf, setting the stage for JUSTICE LEAGUE.

 

Martin Manhunter

As Zack Snyder didn't get to complete his grand design, much of the threads he introduced in earlier films never got the chance to receive a proper payoff. One such thread was the reveal that Lieutenant General Calvin Swanwick (Harry Lennix) was actually Martin Manhunter aka J'onn J'onzz. Snyder said that this reveal had been planned since MAN OF STEEL and that Lennix knew he was playing a character who was only pretending to be human.

 

Knightmare Sequence

BATMAN V SUPERMAN's Knightmare Sequence finds Batman in a post-apocalyptic future in which Superman had succumbed to the effects of Darkseid's Anti-Life Equation. Zack Snyder said, "Superman, at this point, has probably succumbed to the Anti-Life Equation and serves the will of Darkseid and he's also looking for Batman whom he blames for the death of Lois Lane in this alternate world." This was the incident which the future Justice League were attempting to avoid by sending Flash (Ezra Miller) back in time to warn Batman. Snyder added that the whole sequence was a byproduct of Flash using the cosmic treadmill and creating a rift in time, and that there would have been scenes in a later film which would have seen Batman and Cyborg (Ray Fisher) discussing the best point to send Flash back in time. "I had this idea that in the future when [the Justice League] are talking about sending Flash back to warn [Bruce Wayne], that Cyborg would be doing the calculations to send him back and would say 'I have two possibilities of where to send Flash back in time,'" Snyder said. "'The numbers point to two moments to warn you [Bruce].' Like, if it's right near the moment when this event might happen - where Lois might get killed, or Bruce isn't able to stop it, however that's happening - it would be important if Flash came closer to that moment so that Bruce could understand the reality of it. And so in the future Bruce says to Cyborg 'Well, what times would you send me back to...What time right now would you send me back?' And Cyborg says 'I'm leaning toward this.' And Bruce says 'Do the other one, because you already sent him back here and it was too early - so send me to the other one.' So that's how he's able to get [the Flash] back again."

 

Wonder Woman and Jimmy Olsen

During the production of BATMAN V SUPERMAN, there was some debate on when the WONDER WOMAN film would be set, so there were several alternative versions of the photo Bruce Wayne finds of Wonder Woman and her military pals. Before it was decided that the film would be set during the first World War, the filmmakers were also kicking around the possibilities of setting the film during the Crimean War (1853-1856) and the American Civil War (1861-1865). Superman's pal Jimmy Olsen (Michael Cassidy) didn't get much to do in BATMAN V SUPERMAN before he was killed off, but Snyder said that Olsen's death would have had larger consequences across Snyder's planned five-movie arc. "The ones that die off, die off for a reason," Snyder said. "Hopefully they teach us something as they go." Snyder also said that each movie would be like falling dominoes setting up a new stage.

 

Before Zack Snyder signed off, he jokingly commented that there should be a sequel to BATMAN V SUPERMAN as he'd really like to see what happens to these characters. (:

 

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On 3/27/2020 at 6:36 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I agree with the bolded.

You are aware that this version of "Lex" is Alexander Luthor, right? That seemed to escape many people's understanding. This was an origin story for him. Not your atypical already-seemingly-perfect-genius type yet. Snyder was playing the long game with Luthor and Darkseid.

How do you figure that Wayne isn't a good detective in BvS...? Batman has never been perfect, but, outside of being manipulated by a maniacal genius I'm not understanding this statement. He was looking for The Portuguese since the beginning of the film. He found it. He meticulously planned every moment of the battle with Superman. He could've killed "a god". It was A+ Batman there.

Both Batman and Superman were both easily manipulated. That was my problem. And I think many others felt the same.

Batman didn't care after that and just wanted to fight Superman. I was fine with Batman's plotting to beat Superman. But also like others I thought, if Batman was going to kill Superman, someone that even Alfred realized wasn't bad, then Joker and Harley Quinn really shouldn't be alive either given what they did.

But the DC Universe is a mess. I should look forward to their movies but I don't because I don't feel like they are going anywhere.

Edited by GeneticNinja
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46 minutes ago, GeneticNinja said:

Both Batman and Superman were both easily manipulated. That was my problem. And I think many others felt the same.

Batman didn't care after that and just wanted to fight Superman. I was fine with Batman's plotting to beat Superman. But also like others I thought, if Batman was going to kill Superman, someone that even Alfred realized wasn't bad, then Joker and Harley Quinn really shouldn't be alive either given what they did.

But the DC Universe is a mess. I should look forward to their movies but I don't because I don't feel like they are going anywhere.

Did you not watch the beginning of Batman v Superman, and realize why Bruce Wayne was so passionate about preparing to take on Superman? It certainly wasn't 'Got nothing better to do - I'll fight that dude!'

 

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28 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Day-um.

Seeing this thread re-surface just reminds me of how badly this film sucked.

Sigh...

 

It's symbolism of Lex opening up mankind's eyes to the threat of Superman. From Reddit:

Quote

A lot of people seemed confused about that scene, they found it humorous and thought it was telling of the character and power dynamic between Lex Luthor and others while simultaneously putting his quirkiness, and domineering attitude on full display. I think there is a missing note that others gloss over.

 

It represented a red-pilling. That was the introduction of Lex as he began to open the world's eye's and government's eyes to the reality of the shifting power dynamic after the alien invasion and earth's prone dependency on Superman; someone they knew nothing about.

 

CSlrZEt.png

 

It's cherry.

In the recent Zack Snyder commentary event, in his words: "Lex Luthor feels he is bringing knowledge to mankind about its situation with a Superman in the world." So in his mind, Lex feels only he knows what is hanging over mankind's head.

But if you need to continue hating it (I never forget your declaration of protecting others from seeing this film (: ), it's a choice.

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:roflmao:

No worries, man.

The film's abject failure is self-evident. It doesn't need my help.

But here's a hint:

If a scene needs a Reddit thread to explain it, or a film needs a Director's Cut to reach merely mediocre status, Occam's Razor dictates (gasp!)

It's probably a bad film.

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33 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

:roflmao:

No worries, man.

The film's abject failure is self-evident. It doesn't need my help.

But here's a hint:

If a scene needs a Reddit thread to explain it, or a film needs a Director's Cut to reach merely mediocre status, Occam's Razor dictates (gasp!)

It's probably a bad film.

Here's a hint: if people are this fanatical over a film, there must be something there you aren't appreciating these other people are.

'Mediocre status' :roflmao:

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No deep thinking that as massive as Captain America: Civil War went over compared to BVS (+ $280M), the Home Theater Sales turned out to be all of $4.9M domestically.

BVS_CW200404.png.1051e3604d3801aaa8ffce91df6e5385.png

so that simplest of logic (what Gatsby attempts to make some deep-thought concept) demonstrates BVS went over massively once the Ultimate Cut was released with what was supposed to hit theaters.

'Mediocre status' :facepalm:

Talk about having a strong bias.

It is interesting when analyzing 2016 results, the biggest Home Theater winners domestically were 1) Deadpool, 2) Captain America: Civil War, 3) Suicide Squad and 4) BVS.

2016_film_comparisons200404.thumb.JPG.a8228ccfcd867119dbbc5d6799da9148.JPG

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On 4/4/2020 at 5:42 AM, Bosco685 said:

Did you not watch the beginning of Batman v Superman, and realize why Bruce Wayne was so passionate about preparing to take on Superman? It certainly wasn't 'Got nothing better to do - I'll fight that dude!'

 

Of course I remember that scene. It's a good scene. But also started some of the problems with the movie's setup. It's too much to get into in a forum. But quickly I guess.

The concept of an older Batman becomes flawed right here. Why isn't he part of the fight as Batman here in the opening scene and in the Batwing? Surely he had the Batwing at this point. Since he is older, I'm sure he should have some kind of flying vehicle before Superman shows up. But of course we know the why to all this stuff. I don't think they had Affleck as Batman or really considered the scope of the DC Universe while they were making Man of Steel.

Also, I think the joke people made after the Batman and Superman fight is that the reasoning Batman had for wanting to kill Superman still exists. Yes Superman has a Mother that happens to have the same name as Batman's Mother. But it's like that line in a Bond movie. Where Bond says about the villain something like he's sure that he's very kind to his mother. It's doesn't change the fact that the guy will still do bad things.

It's just a problematic movie for me. But it's not like Marvel has them too. Don't get me started on Iron Man 2 and 3. The fairly generic Thor 2. And the really forgettable Hulk movies.

 

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On 4/4/2020 at 5:55 AM, GeneticNinja said:

Both Batman and Superman were both easily manipulated. That was my problem. And I think many others felt the same.

Batman didn't care after that and just wanted to fight Superman. I was fine with Batman's plotting to beat Superman. But also like others I thought, if Batman was going to kill Superman, someone that even Alfred realized wasn't bad, then Joker and Harley Quinn really shouldn't be alive either given what they did.

But the DC Universe is a mess. I should look forward to their movies but I don't because I don't feel like they are going anywhere.

Easily manipulated? Not so much. Batman had prior motivations to take down Superman. Batman was already on fire - Lex simply added fuel to the flames. Superman didn't want to fight Batman. He wanted to stop his careless vigilantism. In the end - Batman realized that Superman is psychologically human. So much so, that he doesn't even see a 1% chance that he could destroy humanity.

Pretty sure the Joker that killed Robin is already dead. The Worst Joker of All-Time is a new character IIRC.

You're right - that Worlds of DC is a mess. Snyder was the only man with a plan. They have nobody, now. With Marvel's peak come and gone, now would be their time to strike. They're more interested in solo franchises, though.

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13 hours ago, GeneticNinja said:

Of course I remember that scene. It's a good scene. But also started some of the problems with the movie's setup. It's too much to get into in a forum. But quickly I guess.

The concept of an older Batman becomes flawed right here. Why isn't he part of the fight as Batman here in the opening scene and in the Batwing? Surely he had the Batwing at this point. Since he is older, I'm sure he should have some kind of flying vehicle before Superman shows up. But of course we know the why to all this stuff. I don't think they had Affleck as Batman or really considered the scope of the DC Universe while they were making Man of Steel.

Also, I think the joke people made after the Batman and Superman fight is that the reasoning Batman had for wanting to kill Superman still exists. Yes Superman has a Mother that happens to have the same name as Batman's Mother. But it's like that line in a Bond movie. Where Bond says about the villain something like he's sure that he's very kind to his mother. It's doesn't change the fact that the guy will still do bad things.

It's just a problematic movie for me. But it's not like Marvel has them too. Don't get me started on Iron Man 2 and 3. The fairly generic Thor 2. And the really forgettable Hulk movies.

Aside from the fact that, you're right, Batman's inclusion was a retrospective decision... Batman was retired in this story. TDKR is The Dark Knight Returns. 2c

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13 hours ago, GeneticNinja said:

Of course I remember that scene. It's a good scene. But also started some of the problems with the movie's setup. It's too much to get into in a forum. But quickly I guess.

The concept of an older Batman becomes flawed right here. Why isn't he part of the fight as Batman here in the opening scene and in the Batwing? Surely he had the Batwing at this point. Since he is older, I'm sure he should have some kind of flying vehicle before Superman shows up. But of course we know the why to all this stuff. I don't think they had Affleck as Batman or really considered the scope of the DC Universe while they were making Man of Steel.

Also, I think the joke people made after the Batman and Superman fight is that the reasoning Batman had for wanting to kill Superman still exists. Yes Superman has a Mother that happens to have the same name as Batman's Mother. But it's like that line in a Bond movie. Where Bond says about the villain something like he's sure that he's very kind to his mother. It's doesn't change the fact that the guy will still do bad things.

It's just a problematic movie for me. But it's not like Marvel has them too. Don't get me started on Iron Man 2 and 3. The fairly generic Thor 2. And the really forgettable Hulk movies.

I think you came to the viewing with issues going into this film from what you are stating. And that's your right. But what a way to not enjoy a film.

So Bruce Wayne in daylight should have changed into his Batman costume/persona and rushed over to the Wayne Corporation HQ to save everyone that needed to get out immediately? Is that the logic?

Again, you can dislike what you want. But if you are going to come to a discussion with that logic, it is going to be questioned. That's the door you open.

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