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Giant Size X-Men #1 and/or X-Men 94 Club
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1,213 posts in this topic

10 hours ago, PKJ said:

Ha we have been there. When I started on ebay in 99 I used to buy and sell IH180 and GSX1. I sold close to 15 copies of IH181 over a 3 year period and less than 10 copies GSX1. The good old days.

Yep. I bought two raw copies 5-8 years ago that both came back 9.8. Long gone. I am not sure I have long to wait before something I used to own and sold for a few grand hits $100k in this crazy market. :cry:

At least I still have a 9.6 I bought raw for $2500. 

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8 hours ago, mjoeyoung said:

I was watching those XM 94s on comiclink.  They took some big jumps near the end I believe.  Those prices don't make any sense.  They are DOUBLE the prices of just a few weeks ago.  This just sold on 1/17 for $7800 and now $20K?

This sort of price movement is common in cards (at least recently). Jordan rookies in PSA 10 going from 50k to 700k inside of a year, Messi PSA 10s going from 5k to 65k inside of three months, etc.

Maybe the "bubble of all things" has landed in comics now as well. Can't help but wonder if currency debasement plays a big part in flight to stuff like this. 

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3 hours ago, october said:

This sort of price movement is common in cards (at least recently). Jordan rookies in PSA 10 going from 50k to 700k inside of a year, Messi PSA 10s going from 5k to 65k inside of three months, etc.

Maybe the "bubble of all things" has landed in comics now as well. Can't help but wonder if currency debasement plays a big part in flight to stuff like this. 

Looking at my etrade account over the past week (lovely red highlights all over) and was not a comic collector I would have some FOMO on good returns in the short term that comics are providing. 

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1 hour ago, PKJ said:
4 hours ago, october said:

This sort of price movement is common in cards (at least recently). Jordan rookies in PSA 10 going from 50k to 700k inside of a year, Messi PSA 10s going from 5k to 65k inside of three months, etc.

Maybe the "bubble of all things" has landed in comics now as well. Can't help but wonder if currency debasement plays a big part in flight to stuff like this. 

Looking at my etrade account over the past week (lovely red highlights all over) and was not a comic collector I would have some FOMO on good returns in the short term that comics are providing. 

Well, not sure what the bidding history was with respect to some of these sports card auctions, but it's probably a good idea to temper your enthusiasm if you believe this outlier of a result on the X-Men 94 reflects what is taking place in the overall vintage comic book marketplace.  (thumbsu

Since Heritage auctioned their CGC 9.6 graded copy off for only $7,800 last month and this one here on CL was sitting in the low $8K with less than 10 seconds left in the auction, I would most definitely not put much weight into this $20K+ figure that 2 irrational bidders decided to throw in with their automated computerized sniping programs in the last 6 or 7 seconds of the auction as being the new normal for X-Men 94.  hm

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55 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Well, not sure what the bidding history was with respect to some of these sports card auctions, but it's probably a good idea to temper your enthusiasm if you believe this outlier of a result on the X-Men 94 reflects what is taking place in the overall vintage comic book marketplace.  (thumbsu

Since Heritage auctioned their CGC 9.6 graded copy off for only $7,800 last month and this one here on CL was sitting in the low $8K with less than 10 seconds left in the auction, I would most definitely not put much weight into this $20K+ figure that 2 irrational bidders decided to throw in with their automated computerized sniping programs in the last 6 or 7 seconds of the auction as being the new normal for X-Men 94.  hm

I certainly do not put much weight in it at all, just pointing out how outsiders would view it. They see the trend and jump in both feet. 

To go even further, I know there are times were I am the under bidder and have ran up say 500 between the bidder under myself and the winner. I find it interesting when that auction is used by sellers (I see one boardie doing it regularly on FB) to try and sell like copies. I know there is fluff in those as I was the fluff in that auction, and mind you not trying to manipulate it or shill but a few books I bid with intent to upgrade or grab an undercopy at the right price. 

If those top two players are out, does the next auction run up that high? Maybe.

Edited by PKJ
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15 hours ago, drotto said:

Clink XM 94 on 2/25/21

9.6 = $20,317

9.4 = $5,100

9.2 = $2,700

 

14 hours ago, mjoeyoung said:

I was watching those XM 94s on comiclink.  They took some big jumps near the end I believe.  Those prices don't make any sense.  They are DOUBLE the prices of just a few weeks ago.  This just sold on 1/17 for $7800 and now $20K?

Holy .  Is X94 starting to catch up after being undervalued for so long...

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3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, not sure what the bidding history was with respect to some of these sports card auctions, but it's probably a good idea to temper your enthusiasm if you believe this outlier of a result on the X-Men 94 reflects what is taking place in the overall vintage comic book marketplace.  (thumbsu

Since Heritage auctioned their CGC 9.6 graded copy off for only $7,800 last month and this one here on CL was sitting in the low $8K with less than 10 seconds left in the auction, I would most definitely not put much weight into this $20K+ figure that 2 irrational bidders decided to throw in with their automated computerized sniping programs in the last 6 or 7 seconds of the auction as being the new normal for X-Men 94.  hm

I think that this being an outlier is likely, but still 20k for XM94 is eye watering.   But the 15k gap with the 9.4 makes me seriously question the hammer price. I could see maybe a 3k to 4k premium as the 9.6's an up tend to go wonky especially on books that are very hard to find in top grades (stupid black covers). I agree this is odd though.

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3 hours ago, PKJ said:
3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, not sure what the bidding history was with respect to some of these sports card auctions, but it's probably a good idea to temper your enthusiasm if you believe this outlier of a result on the X-Men 94 reflects what is taking place in the overall vintage comic book marketplace.  (thumbsu

Since Heritage auctioned their CGC 9.6 graded copy off for only $7,800 last month and this one here on CL was sitting in the low $8K with less than 10 seconds left in the auction, I would most definitely not put much weight into this $20K+ figure that 2 irrational bidders decided to throw in with their automated computerized sniping programs in the last 6 or 7 seconds of the auction as being the new normal for X-Men 94.  hm

I certainly do not put much weight in it at all, just pointing out how outsiders would view it. They see the trend and jump in both feet. 

Yes, as I said in my previous post on this result...........................this is a consignor's dream come true when you have 2 crazed bidders with a big case of FOMO come in with only a few seconds left and decide to toss in an atomic bomb style bid to outbid the high bid, not suspecting that there would be another crazed lunatic out there also deciding to do the exact same thing.  And for the lucky unlucky winner, their worst nightmare come to life:  :fear:  :cry:

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/history.asp?item=1457503&back=%2Fauctions%2Fitem.asp%3Fback%3D%2FAUCTIONS%2FSEARCH%2EASP%3FFocusedOnly%3D1%26where%3Dauctions%26title%3Dx%2Dmen%2B94%26GO%3DGO%26ItemType%3DCB%23Item%5F1457503%26id%3D1457503%26itemType%3D0

 

30 minutes ago, drotto said:

I think that this being an outlier is likely, but still 20k for XM94 is eye watering.   But the 15k gap with the 9.4 makes me seriously question the hammer price. I could see maybe a 3k to 4k premium as the 9.6's an up tend to go wonky especially on books that are very hard to find in top grades (stupid black covers). I agree this is odd though.

Well, if you look at the bidding history posted above, you can clearly see that this is nothing more than an outlier and the real normal for this book in this grade is most likely around only the $8K mark.   :gossip:

Edited by lou_fine
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1 hour ago, drotto said:

I think that this being an outlier is likely, but still 20k for XM94 is eye watering.   But the 15k gap with the 9.4 makes me seriously question the hammer price. I could see maybe a 3k to 4k premium as the 9.6's an up tend to go wonky especially on books that are very hard to find in top grades (stupid black covers). I agree this is odd though.

Well the census disparity between 9.6/9.4 is wider than between 9.4/9.2. The 9.0s are really high in census. Just anectodaly It does seem like there's a few 9.4 listings everyday as opposed to 9.6s going unavailable for some extended periods. I think the main thing that comes out of this is there's going to be a holding pattern with 9.6s for awhile as buyers get sticker shock. I suspect this 20k result will benefit 9.4s in the shorter term 

Edited by MGsimba77
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2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Yes, as I said in my previous post on this result...........................this is a consignor's dream come true when you have 2 crazed bidders with a big case of FOMO come in with only a few seconds left and decide to toss in an atomic bomb style bid to outbid the high bid, not suspecting that there would be another crazed lunatic out there also deciding to do the exact same thing.  And for the lucky unlucky winner, their worst nightmare come to life:  :fear:  :cry:

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/history.asp?item=1457503&back=%2Fauctions%2Fitem.asp%3Fback%3D%2FAUCTIONS%2FSEARCH%2EASP%3FFocusedOnly%3D1%26where%3Dauctions%26title%3Dx%2Dmen%2B94%26GO%3DGO%26ItemType%3DCB%23Item%5F1457503%26id%3D1457503%26itemType%3D0

 

Well, if you look at the bidding history posted above, you can clearly see that this is nothing more than an outlier and the real normal for this book in this grade is most likely around only the $8K mark.   :gossip:

Yeah, that looks like two bidders that put in stupid high auto bids right before the end thinking nobody else would do the exact same thing.

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14 hours ago, MGsimba77 said:

Well the census disparity between 9.6/9.4 is wider than between 9.4/9.2. The 9.0s are really high in census. Just anectodaly It does seem like there's a few 9.4 listings everyday as opposed to 9.6s going unavailable for some extended periods. I think the main thing that comes out of this is there's going to be a holding pattern with 9.6s for awhile as buyers get sticker shock. I suspect this 20k result will benefit 9.4s in the shorter term 

I think this is spot on. Certainly looking at the bidding history on Comiclink for the 94 shows a wide jump between the cluster of final bids in the two bids that pushed it over the $20,000 amount. But the reality is this book in 9.6 grade could be had for 6000 and change a half a year ago, and it is impossible to see a market correction that brings it back to 7500 or 8000. The fact of the matter is that the disparity between grades is a real thing, and to take it one step further, you also have the issue of white pages versus off-white to white pages, and these very bowls, along with the fact that this is a stone cold lock top five bronze age key, it’s not hard to see the new market for this book settling in at The $15,000 range, with nowhere to go but up. This is also one of the books that transcends whether or not there is a movie in the works, or a Netflix series, or a Disney+ show, etc. as this will always be a desirable book from The perspective of a seasoned collector, but it doesn’t hurt that over the next 10 years when the X universe moves into the marvel and Disney realm, this book and giant size X-Men one will be front and center in terms of the books to have, and any grade, but especially 9.6 and 9.8.

Edited by bluehorseshoe
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2 hours ago, bluehorseshoe said:

but it doesn’t hurt that over the next 10 years when the X universe moves into the marvel and Disney realm, this book and giant size X-Men one will be front and center in terms of the books to have, and any grade, but especially 9.6 and 9.8.

I keep thinking of ways any movie/TV thing could possibly be butchered somehow but I don' know if that's relevant. I don't know maybe debuting them on Wandavision or Disney + streaming may not be the best way compared to a big screen debut but....this title is so beast mode it'll just get flicked away by the market. As a purist I'd prefer they maintain a comic accurate presentation but who the hell knows if the younger crowd would even notice??? I'm too old to identify at this point lol! Maybe they can put Wolverine in a chicken suit and it wouldn't matter?

Edited by MGsimba77
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16 hours ago, bluehorseshoe said:

Certainly looking at the bidding history on Comiclink for the 94 shows a wide jump between the cluster of final bids in the two bids that pushed it over the $20,000 amount. But the reality is this book in 9.6 grade could be had for 6000 and change a half a year ago, and it is impossible to see a market correction that brings it back to 7500 or 8000.

I certainly hope you are not suggesting that this $20K result based upon 2 totally blind and I am sure automated computerized sniping bids in the last 7 seconds from 2 individuals who most likely thought no other bidder would place a similar irrational atomic bomb style bid is the new normal for X-Men 94 in CGC 9.6.  I believe you need to have this same result occur in a fully visible step-by-step bidding format auction before you can say this.  Especially since the last 2 CGC 9.6 sales on HA since October came in at $7,800; the last one on CC came in at $6,988 in December, and this one here was sitting in the $8K range before the last 2 out of this universe blind Hail Mary snipe bids came in with only 7 seconds left in the auction. (shrug)

 

16 hours ago, bluehorseshoe said:

The fact of the matter is that the disparity between grades is a real thing,

How real is this disparity between grades when grading is really still more of an art (i.e. based upon a human opiniong at a particular point in time) as opposed to an exact science, coupled with all of the gamification that is taking place when it comes to the grading and slabbing of comic books.  After 20 years of certification, it still puzzles me as to why some buyers would pay multiples more for tiny increases in subjective grades when we have seen books at times go from CGC 4.0 all the way up to CGC 9.0 and books from CGC 9.0 be "maximized" all the way up to CGC 9.8.  :devil:  :p

Edited by lou_fine
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9 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I certainly hope you are not suggesting that this $20K result based upon 2 totally blind and I am sure automated computerized sniping bids in the last 7 seconds from 2 individuals who most likely thought no other bidder would place a similar irrational atomic bomb style bid is the new normal for X-Men 94 in CGC 9.6.  I believe you need to have this same result occur in a fully visible step-by-step bidding format auction before you can say this.  Especially since the last 2 CGC 9.6 sales on HA since October came in at $7,800; the last one on CC came in at $6,988 in December, and this one here was sitting in the $8K range before the last 2 out of this universe blind Hail Mary snipe bids came in with only 7 seconds left in the auction. (shrug)

 

How real is this disparity between grades when grading is really still more of an art (i.e. based upon a human opiniong at a particular point in time) as opposed to an exact science, coupled with all of the gamification that is taking place when it comes to the grading and slabbing of comic books.  After 20 years of certification, it still puzzles me as to why some buyers would pay multiples more for tiny increases in subjective grades when we have seen books at times go from CGC 4.0 all the way up to CGC 9.0 and books from CGC 9.0 be "maximized" all the way up to CGC 9.8.  :devil:  :p

For more common books for years, I have focused more on 9.6's as opposed to 9.8's for my personal collection.  I am now seriously considering lowering that to include 9.4's.  Really the differences between 9.4 up are so miniscule.  I personally only start to see obvious flaws starting at 9.2 and lower.

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11 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I certainly hope you are not suggesting that this $20K result based upon 2 totally blind and I am sure automated computerized sniping bids in the last 7 seconds from 2 individuals who most likely thought no other bidder would place a similar irrational atomic bomb style bid is the new normal for X-Men 94 in CGC 9.6.  I believe you need to have this same result occur in a fully visible step-by-step bidding format auction before you can say this.  Especially since the last 2 CGC 9.6 sales on HA since October came in at $7,800; the last one on CC came in at $6,988 in December, and this one here was sitting in the $8K range before the last 2 out of this universe blind Hail Mary snipe bids came in with only 7 seconds left in the auction. (shrug)

 

How real is this disparity between grades when grading is really still more of an art (i.e. based upon a human opiniong at a particular point in time) as opposed to an exact science, coupled with all of the gamification that is taking place when it comes to the grading and slabbing of comic books.  After 20 years of certification, it still puzzles me as to why some buyers would pay multiples more for tiny increases in subjective grades when we have seen books at times go from CGC 4.0 all the way up to CGC 9.0 and books from CGC 9.0 be "maximized" all the way up to CGC 9.8.  :devil:  :p

Considering I didnt suggest anything close to what you wrote in your first paragraph in response to my post, you should go back and re-read what I wrote more carefully.  Or not.  Or, even better, don't speculate on why the bid history is what it is, unless you are one of the two folks that bid over 20,000 for that book.  Or maybe you are both bidders.  Anyway, the say you are "sure" about how this played out is not accurate, you don't know. Great guess though.

With regard to your second paragraph, grading may be an art, but the quantification of grades related to the values of those books (which is what someone is willing to pay for the books in their various grades) is a science, and an exact one, called "Statistics." Again, to skip over your guessing game (gamification :bigsmile:), isn't the proof in the sales data?  Just because you don't believe in it doesn't make it wrong because it actually works in a way opposite of your viewpoint.

You sell books on this website, and probably other platforms.  To give your position any veracity, should you be open to selling a 9.4 graded copy of Book X for a price more consistent with a 9.2 graded copy or a 9.0 graded copy?  Because why would "some buyers would pay multiples more for tiny increases in subjective grades when we have seen books at times go from CGC 4.0 all the way up to CGC 9.0 and books from CGC 9.0 be "maximized" all the way up to CGC 9.8 [?]" (cut and pasted out of your statement.) (Emphasis Added.)

Put your position through the test, post the books for sale with prices based on the principle of the matter and lets see where we all end up.

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50 minutes ago, bluehorseshoe said:

With regard to your second paragraph, grading may be an art, but the quantification of grades related to the values of those books (which is what someone is willing to pay for the books in their various grades) is a science, and an exact one, called "Statistics."

Since you're bringing up Statistics, perhaps you should look at the definition of outlier: a data point on a graph or in a set of results that is very much bigger or smaller than the next nearest data point.

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