Difference between Comic Art & Transparency? 2 2

[ChadH]

Hey guys,

I've been looking at some artwork recently to add to my collection and hang up in the ole' man cave. I've been eyeing anything I can find The Dark Knight Returns. I found some cool transparency stuff but was wondering if it's worth purchasing or what the difference between that and the original artwork? Also, if anybody can point me in the right direction for Dark Knight artwork I'd be very thankful!

[lb jefferies]

The difference is likely tens of thousands of dollars. Hundreds of thousands in some cases.

[ChadH]

I know that, judging by the art I've looked at. Remember, I'm a total newbie when it comes to this stuff. I just meant are some pieces worth it? Considering I'm not a all out collector and just want pieces to hang up.

[Brian Peck]

Transparency is a reproduction of the artwork used in the production of a comic book. There is nothing original about it, there may have been multiples of each produced.

[mister_not_so_nice]

So you want something nice to hang on the wall, but doesn't cost a lot?

 

Visit the HERITAGE archives, find your favorite and print it out to fit your room design.

 

I'd say buy a transparency you like but I don't want to legitimize the sellers on eBay

[malvin]

yeah, those "production art" transparencies on ebay are frustrating. Its likely just some guy scanning comic books and printing on transparencies.

 

original dark night returns artwork is rare, and decent ones are in the tens of thousands.

 

Malvin

[Garf]

I see no difference between buying something like that from ebay or making your own stats.

 

If there is something out of my reach that I still want represented I usually look to see if I can possible attend a con for a sketch. Would certainly prefer to go down a recreation route or perhaps come up with something original that is done by an artist mimicking the style when it comes to DKR. Would still be pricey though.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Garf

[Hekla]

Color guides may be worth pursuing (if they exist), but they would hard to track down & likely pricey. Getting a recreation would be more unique & affordable.

[comiconxion]

For Dark Knight, Lynn Varley actually hand-painted bluelines for every interior page. To create these, they made "blue photocopies" of the pages and Lynn painted on top of them. Then transparencies of the B&W art were then placed on top of them to be shot for production. These are different than some of the printing "proofs" that none of the original art team ever touched.

 

These bluelines will pop up from time to time and will only cost you from $500-$3k (roughly). Original B&W art by Miller will typically cost you $7500-$500k (on average $25-40k for nicer pages).

 

Color guides may be worth pursuing (if they exist), but they would hard to track down & likely pricey. Getting a recreation would be more unique & affordable.

Edited October 23, 2013 by comiconxion

[Hekla]

For Dark Knight, Lynn Varley actually hand-painted bluelines for every interior page. To create these, they made "blue photocopies" of the pages and Lynn painted on top of them.

 

(thumbs u I knew someone here would know

[Joakim]

Question:

I've seen several pieces labeled as Dark Knight Return Production Art Transparencies for sale, and yesterday one turned up on a facebook forum that I'm a member of. A spread similar to this one I just saw on CAF:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1280590

 

Were these ever used in the actual production of the comic book/graphic novel?

I mean, the blue, yellow and red colors are all on the same sheet of transparent film as the black line art. As far as I can tell the only thing you can print with this is a black and white book.

So... were these actually used or is someone printing these, selling them as production transparencies?

 

[ComicArtMall]

The problem with transparencies, even if they were actually used in the production of the comic, is that there could have been many of them printed. And of course, as others have mentioned, you don't know if someone just created it by themselves so they can sell it on eBay.

 

Sometimes transparencies were used to modify the original art without actually modifying the art itself. They might do this if they wanted to emphasize some lines or add in some item when they are at print. But, these will usually come with the original art and probably still taped on.

 

Then, there are color separations that have three different films stacked on top of each other, which is then stacked on top of a copy of the original art. Nobody does this anymore though.

[comicwiz]

Question:

I've seen several pieces labeled as Dark Knight Return Production Art Transparencies for sale, and yesterday one turned up on a facebook forum that I'm a member of. A spread similar to this one I just saw on CAF:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1280590

 

Were these ever used in the actual production of the comic book/graphic novel?

I mean, the blue, yellow and red colors are all on the same sheet of transparent film as the black line art. As far as I can tell the only thing you can print with this is a black and white book.

So... were these actually used or is someone printing these, selling them as production transparencies?

 

As others have remarked, and generally speaking, "transparencies" have been in reproducabe form for a very long time. It's cachet as a "collectible" evolved from the early days of stop motion animation, and for at least the past 30-40 years, there's been a thriving "collectibles" market for animation art. There's usually a big difference between production used and those produced for aesthetic/displaying purposes, and arriving at a value has much to do with determining the history and/or after-life purpose for the cel or transparency's very existence (actual production art vs manufactured for the collectible market).

 

In the case of this DK piece, I can only go by what details have been listed in the CAF page, and under "art type" it refers to it as being a colour guide. Generally, a colour guide will consist of reproduced line art on an acetate overlay - one way to visualize this is to think of someone photocopying the original art page onto a transparency. This overlay should ONLY represent the K value (or black) in the CMYK pre-press printing process. This is to allow the backer, which is usually a hand coloured board, to show those colours through and provide a point of reference for the final colours to be used on the produced page.

 

So to repeat, the overlay's purpose would be to convey only black lines - seeing greys on an acetate overlay produced for a colour guide would prevent hand coloured areas of the background from showing through from the backing board, which usually means something is amiss. I also don't know what significance "computer art" would have in the detail summary of this page - to my eyes, it just looks like a scan taken from the actual comic book and converted to greyscale, but again my assessment would be limited by the information we have.

[Michael Browning]

Question:

As others have remarked, and generally speaking, "transparencies" have been in reproducabe form for a very long time. It's cachet as a "collectible" evolved from the early days of stop motion animation, and for at least the past 30-40 years, there's been a thriving "collectibles" market for animation art. There's usually a big difference between production used and those produced for aesthetic/displaying purposes, and arriving at a value has much to do with determining the history and/or after-life purpose for the cel or transparency's very existence (actual production art vs manufactured for the collectible market).

 

In the case of this DK piece, I can only go by what details have been listed in the CAF page, and under "art type" it refers to it as being a colour guide. Generally, a colour guide will consist of reproduced line art on an acetate overlay - one way to visualize this is to think of someone photocopying the original art page onto a transparency. This overlay should ONLY represent the K value (or black) in the CMYK pre-press printing process. This is to allow the backer, which is usually a hand coloured board, to show those colours through and provide a point of reference for the final colours to be used on the produced page.

 

Actually, the color separations are NOT color guides. They are color separations. Color guides are xeroxes of the original art that are colored by the colorist during production.

And, only the 3M transparencies are the real transparencies. The transparencies on ebay are fakes that have been produced recently. Buyers beware!

[desertdogg2006]

I concur the transparencies you see on ebay were not used in the printing of the comic. they were made to defraud the buyer. please don't buy anything like this.

[comicwiz]

Question:

As others have remarked, and generally speaking, "transparencies" have been in reproducabe form for a very long time. It's cachet as a "collectible" evolved from the early days of stop motion animation, and for at least the past 30-40 years, there's been a thriving "collectibles" market for animation art. There's usually a big difference between production used and those produced for aesthetic/displaying purposes, and arriving at a value has much to do with determining the history and/or after-life purpose for the cel or transparency's very existence (actual production art vs manufactured for the collectible market).

 

In the case of this DK piece, I can only go by what details have been listed in the CAF page, and under "art type" it refers to it as being a colour guide. Generally, a colour guide will consist of reproduced line art on an acetate overlay - one way to visualize this is to think of someone photocopying the original art page onto a transparency. This overlay should ONLY represent the K value (or black) in the CMYK pre-press printing process. This is to allow the backer, which is usually a hand coloured board, to show those colours through and provide a point of reference for the final colours to be used on the produced page.

 

Actually, the color separations are NOT color guides. They are color separations. Color guides are xeroxes of the original art that are colored by the colorist during production.

And, only the 3M transparencies are the real transparencies. The transparencies on ebay are fakes that have been produced recently. Buyers beware!

 

Yes, I'm talking about colour guides. I refer to CMYK to emphasize that the acetate overlay should only be black line art to allow the hand coloured backing to be seen. I can see where there might be confusion, but this K value acetate could also technically be used for the colour seperation, and not that I want to create more confusion, but I mention the latter on the off-chance one emerges on it's own (as is being claimed in this CAF entry), as they would be identical and differ only for it's intended purpose, and any real colour guide should have the backer that is hand coloured.

[Fred Chamberlain]

The difference always seemed clear to me. Original artwork was hand drawn by the artist and one of a kind. Transparencies are copies of original workwork. Whether there are only individual copies or (as appears clear on ebay) hundreds with more printed regularly, they are copies.

[JadeGiant]

The difference always seemed clear to me. Original artwork was hand drawn by the artist and one of a kind. Transparencies are copies of original workwork. Whether there are only individual copies or (as appears clear on ebay) hundreds with more printed regularly, they are copies.

 

 

Agreed. This is pretty straight forward but the topic always spins to a place where the point gets convoluted. I am sure the eBay sellers make a tidy little profit from making copies and being intentionally vague in their listing practices.

 

[Joakim]

Thanks!

My conclusion then, is that these Dark Knight transparencies (with all three colors + line art) never were used in any actual production of the comic.

They are fakes. Printed to fool Batman/Miller fans.

[Michael Browning]

Thanks!

My conclusion then, is that these Dark Knight transparencies (with all three colors + line art) never were used in any actual production of the comic.

They are fakes. Printed to fool Batman/Miller fans.

 

They are printed to fool Batman/Miller fans into spending money on what they think is a cheap piece of Dark Knight artwork.