Official Canadian Newsstand Cover Price V****** Thread 18 18

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 minutes ago, kimik said:

George is a bit older than that (in his 50s) so it may be Sebastian or someone else then. 

They will all be at the Calgary Expo next week.

Well, then, I should head up there and point them out.

Alberta smells funny, though.

[kimik]

31 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Well, then, I should head up there and point them out.

Alberta smells funny, though.

That is because all of the weed emissions from BC are carried in by the winds.

[dhgladiator]

Just a question, maybe it’s been asked already, but here goes, when you lads go to sell these CPVs what are you using to decide on a price point? I know condition will be important but how do you decide on a starting point for price?

my apologies (obviously I’m Canadian because I apologized ) for the poor photo quality, it’s my first photo upload on the boards.

 

[Lazyboy]

9 minutes ago, dhgladiator said:

Just a question, maybe it’s been asked already, but here goes, when you lads go to sell these CPVs what are you using to decide on a price point? I know condition will be important but how do you decide on a starting point for price?

First, you start a blog...

 

But seriously, you price a Canadian Newsstand the same way you would any other comic. It may take a bit more work if you can't find a direct comparable, but that's part of selling if you're concerned with getting top dollar.

[dhgladiator]

Is no one using this guide?   The 2018 Price Guide for 1980’s Marvel & DC Newsstand Canadian Cover Price Variants (Type 1A)

 

 

[Parabellum]

[bababooey]

35 minutes ago, dhgladiator said:

Is no one using this guide?   The 2018 Price Guide for 1980’s Marvel & DC Newsstand Canadian Cover Price Variants (Type 1A)

 

 

No, but I'd prefer it if they referred to this variant category as 'Type 1 eh' 

[Lazyboy]

7 hours ago, dhgladiator said:

Is no one using this guide?   The 2018 Price Guide for 1980’s Marvel & DC Newsstand Canadian Cover Price Variants (Type 1A)

NO.

[Red_Hood]

7 hours ago, dhgladiator said:

Is no one using this guide?   The 2018 Price Guide for 1980’s Marvel & DC Newsstand Canadian Cover Price Variants (Type 1A)

 

 

That is a good reference tool, just as OSPG is a good reference tool.  Unfortunately, nothing is perfect but its a start and kudos to the author for putting it together.  So I would continue to use it.  I wouldn't listen to cynical comments from people that whine and/or create shills on a comic chat forum.

[dhgladiator]

6 hours ago, FakeVariants said:

No, because Benjamin Nobel has proven to be an unreliable, biased, incompetent dumas. You've been warned.

I don’t know too much about Mr. Nobel  but I do know that Doug Sulipa who collaborated on the guide is well respected. Typically, when you have several authors/collaborators on a project, one person doesn’t taint the whole project. 

[porcupine48]

taint

 

[dhgladiator]

On 2018-04-20 at 9:09 AM, Parabellum said:

Nice! Do you have the other two?

[RockMyAmadeus]

18 hours ago, Red_Hood said:

On 4/20/2018 at 5:40 AM, dhgladiator said:

Is no one using this guide?   The 2018 Price Guide for 1980’s Marvel & DC Newsstand Canadian Cover Price Variants (Type 1A)

 

 

That is a good reference tool, just as OSPG is a good reference tool.  Unfortunately, nothing is perfect but its a start and kudos to the author for putting it together.  So I would continue to use it.  I wouldn't listen to cynical comments from people that whine and/or create shills on a comic chat forum.

Despite your opinion of Stu, the fact is, Mr. Nobel has demonstrated a distressing lack of rigor in his methodology. In other words, he's played fast and loose with the facts, and has been openly hostile to any criticism, no matter how tame, even attempting to get people thrown off this board by calling, and having his friends call, and complain of being "cyber bullied."

Those are not the actions of someone who is interested in open, honest discourse in the pursuit of knowledge beneficial to all. Those are the actions of someone who has an agenda, and won't tolerate opposing views.

All statements should be considered on their merits, or their lack thereof...not who made them, or how "cynical" they may appear to be.

Edited April 21, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus

[RockMyAmadeus]

16 hours ago, dhgladiator said:

22 hours ago, FakeVariants said:

No, because Benjamin Nobel has proven to be an unreliable, biased, incompetent dumas. You've been warned.

I don’t know too much about Mr. Nobel  but I do know that Doug Sulipa who collaborated on the guide is well respected. Typically, when you have several authors/collaborators on a project, one person doesn’t taint the whole project. 

Doug Sulipa is well respected. However, the other collaborators on the project, including Jon McClure, are not. Mr. McClure claims to be "the discoverer" of 30 and 35 cent variants, despite the fact that they were attested as far back as the 1979 Overstreet Price Guide (Star Wars #1.) Various other 30 cent variants were mentioned in the OPG in the ensuing years. One cannot claim, much like Christopher Columbus, to be the "discoverer" of an already known fact, even if the extent of that fact is not known or has been forgotten.

There were several of us...including @FlyingDonut...who were well aware of the 30 and 35 cent variants long before Mr. McClure's "discovery." We just didn't realize the extent until the advent of the internet.

[Get Marwood & I]

10 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Doug Sulipa is well respected. However, the other collaborators on the project, including Jon McClure, are not. Mr. McClure claims to be "the discoverer" of 30 and 35 cent variants, despite the fact that they were attested as far back as the 1979 Overstreet Price Guide (Star Wars #1.) Various other 30 cent variants were mentioned in the OPG in the ensuing years. One cannot claim, much like Christopher Columbus, to be the "discoverer" of an already known fact, even if the extent of that fact is not known or has been forgotten.

There were several of us...including @FlyingDonut...who were well aware of the 30 and 35 cent variants long before Mr. McClure's "discovery." We just didn't realize the extent until the advent of the internet.

I don't know Jon McClure,  but I've seen his website and his article on variants and you can't doubt his interest and love for the medium.  Maybe he's a great bloke. Maybe he's not. But he's had a go at documenting comic variations for people like us to read and debate.  I think he may lay claim to the discovery of the 30/35cvs on the basis that they were unknown to him when he 'discovered ' them,  and they were unknown to Overstreet when he contacted them. So others may have had an awareness too, but he feels he did the most to put them on the radar. Maybe that's what he means. 

I seem to have done 'the most' in documenting the presence of 1999/2000 Marvel newsstand price variants and L Miller Marvel UK variants but I can't claim to have discovered them as there has been an isolated reference here or there elsewhere. But, to my knowledge, I'm the only person to have 'gone to town' about them online.

Doesn't history only remember the people who popularised new things Rock, rather than those who found them first,  but didn't make any noise about it?

Have you ever challenged Jon McClures version of events? What did he say if so?

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 4/20/2018 at 5:40 AM, dhgladiator said:

Is no one using this guide?   The 2018 Price Guide for 1980’s Marvel & DC Newsstand Canadian Cover Price Variants (Type 1A)

 

 

One thing about price guides...as I have noted elsewhere, there never seems to be any price guide that accurately reflects the market as it is, but instead reflects it as the guides' authors wish it to be. That's not unbiased. Doug...as much as he is respected, and he is...SELLS these books, so no matter his intent, he has a built-in conflict of interest when it comes to valuing comics.

And that's been true since the beginning. Bob Overstreet certainly manipulated his price guide to reflect both what he had and what he did not, but wanted. That's unfortunate, but it's human nature. Anyone who follows these things will notice that price guides nearly always reflect higher...usually much higher...prices than 

And, since very, very few comic books, especially those published after 1960, are even remotely rare, there's a long and well established market that tells us very well what a given book is worth at a given point in time. Example: Tales of the Teen Titans is listed for $120 in the above price guide. Yet the last sale was for $78...substantially less...in October...and that's for a slabbed copy. Raw copies, by default, sell for less, with very few exceptions.

That's true about all of those prices: they're higher, often substantially higher, than actual sales. 

Note what they say here:

" (all guided values presented are for “raw” copies; all guided values are presented in US Dollars)"

So those are the supposed "retail values" of these books for raw copies, but slabbed copies can be had for less.

And, as with any price guide, if a price is LOWER than market, that's merely a fluke which will be corrected in short order, not because the guides' authors believe it is overvalued.

The never-ending problem with such "price guides" is always that they present an unrealistic view of the value of things. People who don't know much come to unrealistic conclusions about the value of their comics, and then become bitter and disillusioned when someone tries to educate them...or worse, they think that person or persons is/are trying to rip them off.

Any time you have someone with a built-in conflict of interest...regardless of who...I am hardly an unbiased source when it comes to valuing, say, Maxx Ashcans, no matter how honest I am or want to be....it should be treated with skepticism, and multiple opinions sought. And the best opinions of all are actual selling prices. Those are unimpeachable. You cannot argue with an actual sales result.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

3 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Those are unimpeachable. You cannot argue with an actual sales result.

What if it's the result of shill bidding or such like?

[RockMyAmadeus]

8 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I don't know Jon McClure,  but I've seen his website and his article on variants and you can't doubt his interest and love for the medium.  Maybe he's a great bloke. Maybe he's not. But he's had a go at documenting comic variations for people like us to read and debate.  I think he may lay claim to the discovery of the 30/35cvs on the basis that they were unknown to him when he 'discovered ' them,  and they were unknown to Overstreet when he contacted them. So others may have had an awareness too, but he feels he did the most to put them on the radar. Maybe that's what he means. 

That's not a legitimate means for determining who "discovered" something. The bar for having discovered something is pretty high, on purpose. They weren't unknown to Overstreet when McClure contacted him. They may have been unknown to Overstreet PERSONALLY, because Bob cared very little for modern books...but they weren't unknown to Overstreet professionally, as they had been published in his price guide for nearly two decades at that point. That's not how the word "discovery" works...under that test, I have "discovered" that the Maxx Ashcans exist. I DID, however, discover that there is both a Superman #50 AND Robin #1 (1990) second print newsstand. I CAN claim to have discovered those, because, unlike the OPG and 30 and 35 cent variants, there was nothing published about them before I published my research.

Again: did Christopher Columbus discover North and South America, or was it, in fact, discovered by all the indigenous people who lived there for millenia, AND the Vikings who established actual settlements in North America several hundred years before Columbus was born...?

8 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I seem to have done 'the most' in documenting the presence of 1999/2000 Marvel newsstand price variants and L Miller Marvel UK variants but I can't claim to have discovered them as there has been an isolated reference here or there elsewhere. But, to my knowledge, I'm the only person to have 'gone to town' about them online.

 

You didn't, as far as I can tell, discover them. There's a distinct difference between "discovery" and "thorough research", right?

14 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Doesn't history only remember the people who popularised new things Rock, rather than those who found them first,  but didn't make any noise about it?

Have you ever challenged Jon McClures version of events? What did he say if so?

Yes, right here, on multiple occasions, as well as elsewhere. This is a public forum, accessible to all. If you're going to publish something publicly, you better be fully prepared to be challenged on it publicly, regardless of venue. Those who are interested in reaching the truth of a matter will welcome a challenge, because an idea that withstands challenge becomes a stronger one, a better one. An idea that does not deserves to be discarded immediately.

Do I need to have contacted Mr. McClure directly? No, of course not. He published his claim publicly, and it's easily shown to not be true. 

As far as history remembering the people who popularized new things...the repetition of an error does not correct that error, wouldn't you say...?

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

25 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I seem to have done 'the most' in documenting the presence of 1999/2000 Marvel newsstand price variants and L Miller Marvel UK variants but I can't claim to have discovered them as there has been an isolated reference here or there elsewhere. But, to my knowledge, I'm the only person to have 'gone to town' about them online.

 

You didn't, as far as I can tell, discover them. There's a distinct difference between "discovery" and "thorough research", right?

What do you think of the 1999/2000 research by the way Rock. Given the subjects you've posted in, I always wondered why it didn't interest you enough to comment / contribute?

[RockMyAmadeus]

12 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

15 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Those are unimpeachable. You cannot argue with an actual sales result.

What if it's the result of shill bidding or such like?

Then that's not an actual sales result...right?

Despite the fact that an actual transaction may have taken place, it's not an actual sales result.

The beauty is, shilling only accounts for a tiny fraction of transactions. Even the most ardent shillers cannot make even a dent on the sum total of transactions. So, the information is GENERALLY going to be quite accurate. 

We need not focus on the exceptions to have a valid rule.