Why do people think New Mutants #98 had a "high print run"...? 0

[Mercury Man]

I don't think it had a high print run,  I just think it's as abundant as the rest of the early 1990's Marvel/DC comics.  

[RockMyAmadeus]

5 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

I don't think it had a high print run,  I just think it's as abundant as the rest of the early 1990's Marvel/DC comics.  

Depends on what you mean by that. As abundant as the monster print runs of McFarlane's Spiderman, or Jim Lee's X-Men, or Superman #75 or Batman #500? No, not even close.

As abundant as New Mutants #97 and #99? Yeah, right about. But New Mutants still didn't come close even to Uncanny X-Men at the same time.

[Mercury Man]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Depends on what you mean by that. As abundant as the monster print runs of McFarlane's Spiderman, or Jim Lee's X-Men, or Superman #75 or Batman #500? No, not even close.

As abundant as New Mutants #97 and #99? Yeah, right about. But New Mutants still didn't come close even to Uncanny X-Men at the same time.

I get that.  I just remember last year my LCS bought 4 Longboxes off of a guy, and inside were 5 copies of NM 98.  Plenty more to be had out in the wild.   Not like this book is absent from most shops. 

[kimik]

41 minutes ago, Mercury Man said:

I get that.  I just remember last year my LCS bought 4 Longboxes off of a guy, and inside were 5 copies of NM 98.  Plenty more to be had out in the wild.   Not like this book is absent from most shops. 

Yeah, it is sitting in most collections, just like ASM 300. I was beat to a collection in Calgary a few years back - there were 30 ASM 300s and 30 NM 98s. Most looked to be 9.8 candidates. The seller agreed to a deal just before I got there so all I could do is look at the books and cry - there were a bunch of nice SA Marvel runs including #1s as well. When I told the owner what I was thinking for a price he kind of winced - he sold it for around half of what I was willing to offer.

Every Copper collection will have at least one or two copies of NM 98, ASM 300, etc. since those were the big books back then. Unfortunately, they will also have multiple McSpidey 1s, Marvel 2099 #1s, and total drek like Malibu, post-Unity Valiant, and other super-high print run books that are worthless.

Edited July 19, 2018 by kimik

[divad]

1 hour ago, kimik said:

Yeah, it is sitting in most collections, just like ASM 300. I was beat to a collection in Calgary a few years back - there were 30 ASM 300s and 30 NM 98s. Most looked to be 9.8 candidates. The seller agreed to a deal just before I got there so all I could do is look at the books and cry - there were a bunch of nice SA Marvel runs including #1s as well. When I told the owner what I was thinking for a price he kind of winced - he sold it for around half of what I was willing to offer.

Every Copper collection will have at least one or two copies of NM 98, ASM 300, etc. since those were the big books back then. Unfortunately, they will also have multiple McSpidey 1s, Marvel 2099 #1s, and total drek like Malibu, post-Unity Valiant, and other super-high print run books that are worthless.

Love me some "total drek"

[Mercury Man]

7 hours ago, kimik said:

McSpidey 1s

I don't care how many of these were printed.  I still like this book, especially the black & silver cover.

[ComicConnoisseur]

On 7/17/2018 at 5:34 PM, kimik said:

If you want volume, then ASM #300 is the king as it sells in a similar or higher volume to NM #98 in 9.4 and under (it is much tougher than NM 98 in 9.6 and 9.8, but still has nice volume) but at double the prices. That would be closer to IH 181 or AF 15 than NM 98.

NM 98 is the third or fourth biggest 1st appearance book for the CA after TMNT #1 and ASM #300. It is in similar standing to BA #12, but at a much lower value in grade. 

TMNT 1 still trumps them all, just like AF 15 or Hulk 181.

Perception of ASM#300 being the favorite compared to NM#98  could change quick if the upcoming Venom movie doesn't come close to Deadpool 1 or 2 at the box office.

Right now there is excitement,but if the Venom movie doesn't come close to Deadpool at the box office than we know going forward who has the better future.

btw I am in the camp that the Venom movie will surprise and do very well at the box office.

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by ComicConnoisseur

[RockMyAmadeus]

The Venom trailer still looks like garbage. 

[joecgcmaniac]

35 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

The Venom trailer still looks like garbage. 

Still looks better than Green Lantern.  

[kimik]

2 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Perception of ASM#300 being the favorite compared to NM#98  could change quick if the upcoming Venom movie doesn't come close to Deadpool 1 or 2 at the box office.

Right now there is excitement,but if the Venom movie doesn't come close to Deadpool at the box office than we know going forward who has the better future.

btw I am in the camp that the Venom movie will surprise and do very well at the box office.

 

Pre-movies, ASM #300 was still the more valuable and sought after book. NM #98 did not really take off until the first movie was announced. Using CGC 9.4 as the barometer grade since ASM #300 gets a boost from being harder to find in 9.6 and 9.8, ASM #300 has sold for higher prices than NM #98 year in and year out since GPA started recording sales - in 2002 a CGC 9.4 NM 98 sold for a high of $16, while ASM 300 had a low to hi range of $41 to $135. 

I don't think it really matters how the movies do. We already had a crappy Venom appearance in the first Spider-Man arc and it did not damage the book. DP has two recent hit movies and prices have plateaued and pulled back. 

[kimik]

40 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

The Venom trailer still looks like garbage. 

Looks like something that Oscar the Grouch deposited on the set of Sesame Street back in the day....  

[MyThreeSons]

20 hours ago, kimik said:

Looks like something that Oscar the Grouch deposited on the set of Sesame Street back in the day....  

Looks like Mr Hanky from South Park 

[divad]

On 7/19/2018 at 10:51 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

The Venom trailer still looks like garbage. 

That's a joke? . . . . Right?

 

[Adolphus]

What does everyone think of the Venom movie now?

[waaaghboss]

On 11/11/2013 at 9:56 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Some facts:

 

#1. Deadpool was NOT a "hot character" at the time that New Mutants #98 was published. In Deadpool's first year of existence, he appeared in a total of five comic books: NM #98, X-Force #1, 2, 4, and 5. Of those, three were cameos. Of those, two of them...X-Force #1 and #4...were single panel cameos. It would take quite some time for Deadpool to become much of anything, quite unlike the scenario with Cable and Gambit.

 

#2. 250k copies is the entire print run for the issue, nearly 30% of which were distributed to newsstands, most of which would have been subject to destruction as returns from news agents. That would make the total available supply about 175,000-200,000 copies from the beginning.

 

#3. The print run for the book, about 250k, was roughly typical Marvel at the time, during a period when the print run for Spiderman was 750,000, and X-Men (Uncanny) was in the 600,000s, for perspective. X-Factor at the time had a print run in the 400,000s. Fantastic Four had a print run of 300,000 at the exact same time period, and FF was not a "hot" title.

 

#4. Deadpool would not become a hot character in his own right until his 1993 mini-series, two+ years after his first appearance. At that time, New Mutants #98 "broke out" and became a $5-$15 book. However, this proved to be a flash in the pan, and soon petered out, and NM #98 would become a cold book for the next decade and a half.

 

#5. Because NM #98 had this small breakout during 1993, many thousands of copies that had been hoarded initially were distributed, as speculators and hoarders took advantage of the mini-bump in popularity, spreading out the print run amongst more owners.

 

#6. After that, the crash of 95-96, and the great malaise of 1997-2002, took its toll on just about every formerly "hot" mainstream comic from the previous nearly 20 years. NM #98 wasn't even able to keep New Mutants #87 or X-Men #266 status, and settled right back to being a "dollar issue" for the 15 years after the first mini. After the crash and during the malaise, nearly all the speculators were driven completely from the entire industry, and any remaining hoards that were not distributed during the light 1993 market spike were then dumped and absorbed into the greater market, or forgotten in boxes. In all cases, attrition took its toll. To imagine that only 10% of the print run was lost to attrition after 15 years of essentially no demand, and nearly 23 years of existence, is not really within the realm of reason.

 

#7. New Mutants #98 was nothing like Amazing Spiderman #361, which was, indeed, hot from the beginning, because of the immense visual appeal of Carnage, as well as the excellent layout of its cover. Carnage was an immediate hit from the moment #361 hit the stands.

 

While an available pool of 175,000-200,000 copies may seem like a lot in this era of 30,000 average print runs for mid-level Marvel books, the fact is, the book is 23 years old and went through the majority of that time as a book with almost no demand. This is why the book continues to defy projections and rises in value, while at the same time, books like X-Force #2 see very little increase (in fact, the book can still be found in dollar boxes, while even ratty copies of NM #98 are $50+.) There simply isn't the supply that some think there is or should be, and never was.

 

The same thing could happen with a book like New Mutants #99, or Detective Comics #647, if Feral or the Spoiler ever become as popular as Deadpool. Yes, not anywhere near possible, but that's what would happen.

Sounds correct.  Deadpool was not really popular at all at the time.  I remember getting his mini-series in 50 cent bins shortly after it came out, and wondering why they even bothered (terrible story).  I best remember him from X-Force #2, and not in a good way.  One of my big surprises when I came back into comics after leaving in the mid 90's was that Deadpool was actually a popular character.   Still kinda blows me away.  Now that you mention Feral, I remember finding her much more interesting of a character at the time.  

[Mercury Man]

On 12/19/2018 at 10:01 PM, waaaghboss said:

Sounds correct.  Deadpool was not really popular at all at the time.  I remember getting his mini-series in 50 cent bins shortly after it came out, and wondering why they even bothered (terrible story).  I best remember him from X-Force #2, and not in a good way.  One of my big surprises when I came back into comics after leaving in the mid 90's was that Deadpool was actually a popular character.   Still kinda blows me away.  Now that you mention Feral, I remember finding her much more interesting of a character at the time.  

Out of my couple thousand comics, both old-new and inbetween, I don't think one copy has a Deadpool appearance, and I am ok with that.   Character does ZERO for me. 

[ComicConnoisseur]

On 7/20/2018 at 12:18 AM, ComicConnoisseur said:

Perception of ASM#300 being the favorite compared to NM#98  could change quick if the upcoming Venom movie doesn't come close to Deadpool 1 or 2 at the box office.

Right now there is excitement,but if the Venom movie doesn't come close to Deadpool at the box office than we know going forward who has the better future.

btw I am in the camp that the Venom movie will surprise and do very well at the box office.

 

Venom = Box office

= Worldwide:

$854,509,348

[Aweandlorder]

Asm 300 outperforms nm98 not because of movie ticket sales but because of Mcfarlane. If Mcfarlane ever gets to Stan Lee's status in the future (already exceeded him in net worth) that book would be THE Mcfarlane book to own. We all know it's not venom's first appearance, not even Mcspideys first appearance. But that cover and art are Mcfarlane masterpieces. 

And that comes from someone that LOATHES Todd

Edited December 25, 2018 by Aweandlorder

[lou_fine]

On 7/17/2018 at 11:07 AM, valiantman said:

TMNT #1's original print run of 3,275 copies puts it in AF #15 territory in terms of "surviving copies", despite being 22 years younger.

What is your definition of "surviving copies" here?  

If you are referring to the narrow definition of only currently graded CGC copies only, then you are probably correct as the CGC population census report is only a couple hundred away from this 3,275 mark.  Of course, we would have to factor back out the potential resubs that did not bother to turn back in their original labels from that count.  

If you are talking about a more generally accepted definition of total surviving copies including the ones graded by the other companies and the number of still raw copies out there, this 3,275 mark is nowhere close to the total estimated final count for surviving copies of AF 15 by the time it's all said and done.  If you exclude all of the auction listings, I have definitely seen more raw copies of AF 15's out there as compared to slabbed copies of AF 15's by a wide margin. 

Edited December 26, 2018 by lou_fine

[the blob]

On 12/25/2018 at 11:45 AM, Aweandlorder said:

Asm 300 outperforms nm98 not because of movie ticket sales but because of Mcfarlane. If Mcfarlane ever gets to Stan Lee's status in the future (already exceeded him in net worth) that book would be THE Mcfarlane book to own. We all know it's not venom's first appearance, not even Mcspideys first appearance. But that cover and art are Mcfarlane masterpieces. 

And that comes from someone that LOATHES Todd

Kids (the ones in my house) are quite into both venom and deadpool. And by venom I mean the whole symbiote-verse. My 7 year old rattles off the names of symbiotes I have never heard of (and is holding a serious grudge about not seeing the movie).