35 Cent Variant Pedigree info 2 2

[cosmic-spider-man]

For all those nuty 35 cent variant collectors including me I thought I would start a thread to see if we could piece together the 35 cent variant Distribution Question if that is posible. And maybe get a better ideal of just how Rare these are ?

 

Well I have started making a list of all the Distribution marks on the tops of Marvel's 35 cent variants from 1977 and so far I have found 4 different types.

 

1. top sprayed usualy covering all the top and is sometimes faint and pachy.

 

2. one or two color marks about 1/8 inch or less wide usualy on left top edge.

 

3. about a 1 inch band of color close to the center of the top edge.

 

4. No marks or color at all.

 

My hope is to get anyone who is interested in this subject to post anything that might be of help toward this goal. The main thing I am looking for now is anyone who has any 35 cent variants if they could list their comics the type of mark and color of it and if they know where it came from that would be a big help. Also anyone with knowledge of how distributors marked their comics I would love to hear all about it .

 

Well I have been working on this for just a week now and thanks to Carl, Harry, Roger, Keith, Jeff and Tony Brock's help I have a chart that has 127 of the 184 of all the variants from the Toledo area Test market and I will attach it to this post . and if anyone has any that is not on their I would love to add them. I also welcome any help in figureing out which color was used which weeks and is it posible that the distributer only put out comics every two weeks as their are 6 colums with no comics in them, and their is one with only one but their are still 57 comics missing from the chart .

 

I still have a lot of work to do as I have two more Test markets to chart, Memphis and Tuscaloosa" and I don't have near as many examples of these as I do for Toledo", but I hope to complete them some time and Post them hear for everyone's use. I don't think their is a need to make one for Wilmington as their are no marks on those. and then I need to figure out how to deal with all the ones that don't fit on any of the charts hopefuly a 5th market will come to light soon and maybe a 6th one.

 

Anyway I will give this a shot and just hope I am not wasting my time .

 

Thanks; Terry

 

Edited October 17, 2004 by cosmic-spider-man

[ShieldAgent]

 

How is it coming Terry? Sorry I have not gotten you my info yet, but will work on it soon. How many people have responded?

[Higghawker]

Cosmic, Thanks for the well detailed info!!!

[cosmic-spider-man]

Thanks William and Harry

I have not got very many responses yet but I have emailed Glenn and Daffy and I hope they will be willing to help and their are a few more I still have not emailed yet that may be able to help alot.

I also want to thank Keith for helping me add another to my Toledo Chart now I only need 56 more. I think that if we have one chart complete we can assume that all the other charts will be in the same order comic wise in other words if one comic, say ASM 169, was in the second week of June in one test market it should be the second week of June in all the test markets so if we have one complete chart we should know how to fill out the other charts without actualy having examples of every issue does this sound right or is it poisble that this could vary Well I still need to work on the order of weeks the chart goes in and any help in this is appreciated as I am still trying to figure out why 6 colums have no comics in them .

William could you check out your 35 cent variants and let me know what marks they have I think those PP you got from me came from Toledo I will have to check and I never looked at them when I had them to see what kind of marks or color they had .

I will get to work on that Memphis Chart soon and post it hear and maybe we can see if all the variants were released in different markets on the same weeks.

 

Thanks; Terry

[cosmic-spider-man]

Okay here is the info I promised. I don't have the info for all titles as my notes are incomplete but I am fairly certain this is how these titles come out at that time.

 

First week of the month:

Daredevil

Invaders

Marvel Super-Heroes

MTIO

Tomb of Dracula

 

2nd week of the month:

ASM

Capt. America

Dr. Strange

Eternals

Ghost Rider

Thor

 

3rd week of the month:

Avengers

Conan

Hulk

Marvel Tales

Omega

Powerman

 

4th week of the month:

Capt. Marvel

FF

Howard the Duck

Iron Man

Master of Kung Fu

Peter Parker

 

 

 

Hi; Roger

I don't know what is wrong but my chart don't match your list their are a few colums that come close but then the next month they are totaly off I have rearanged it in every conceivable way but nothing looks right . and it is very inprotant to get them in the right order.

I do have a ideal but it might take a long time also has anyone got any 35 cent variants with date stamps on them I have one I will attach it and it has a Apr.18 1977 date so I will assume that every comic that came out that month with the same color spray on them came out the same week as this comic which is the July issues with Yellow spray. If anyone has any with Date stamps and would like to help post them or PM me and if anyone can come up with a better way to get the weeks orginized in the proper order Please let me know.

Also does anyone on hear know if Marvel was consistent on getting their comics out on time or was that not the case at all, in other words did Marvel have comics that were ment for the first week of the month come out maybe a week or two late or even eairly for that matter because it is sure looking like this was the case by what I have so far.

Well anyway I appreciate any help or Ideals on this I can get and please let me know what you think. Thanks; Terry

 

Edited October 17, 2004 by cosmic-spider-man

[underthebigw]

Okay here is the info I promised. I don't have the info for all titles as my notes are incomplete but I am fairly certain this is how these titles come out at that time.

 

First week of the month:

Daredevil

Invaders

Marvel Super-Heroes

MTIO

Tomb of Dracula

 

2nd week of the month:

ASM

Capt. America

Dr. Strange

Eternals

Ghost Rider

Thor

 

3rd week of the month:

Avengers

Conan

Hulk

Marvel Tales

Omega

Powerman

 

4th week of the month:

Capt. Marvel

FF

Howard the Duck

Iron Man

Master of Kung Fu

Peter Parker

 

 

 

Hi; Roger

I don't know what is wrong but my chart don't match your list their are a few colums that come close but then the next month they are totaly off I have rearanged it in every conceivable way but nothing looks right . and it is very inprotant to get them in the right order.

I do have a ideal but it might take a long time also has anyone got any 35 cent variants with date stamps on them I have one I will attach it and it has a Apr.18 1977 date so I will assume that every comic that came out that month with the same color spray on them came out the same week as this comic which is the July issues with Yellow spray. If anyone has any with Date stamps and would like to help post them or PM me and if anyone can come up with a better way to get the weeks orginized in the proper order Please let me know.

Also does anyone on hear know if Marvel was consistent on getting their comics out on time or was that not the case at all, in other words did Marvel have comics that were ment for the first week of the month come out maybe a week or two late or even eairly for that matter because it is sure looking like this was the case by what I have so far.

Well anyway I appreciate any help or Ideals on this I can get and please let me know what you think. Thanks; Terry

 

 

 

Hi Terry,

 

I've been pressed for time, so can't contribute as much to this topic as it deserves. However, a few things are worth pointing out. In general, Marvel was very consistent with their releases. The same title almost always came out the same week of every month. And this is regardless of region or distributor. Also, it is definitely interesting to look at the distribotor marks as a means of detecting other cities in which these were released. However, there is a danger here. Many distributors likely shared marks-not a problem as long as they weren't geographically close. From my understanding, distributors' only concern was that the mark not only recorded the week of release, in order to pull unsold books in a timely manner, but also to distinguish their books from other nearby distributors. This was done in order to make sure that a distributor was not fradulently provided with returns from another source. There are only so many patterns a distributor could use, so I would guess there is some redundancy across the country--not a concern as long as no one else in the region had the same mark. However, since we are dealing a small pool of distributors, your idea is probably very useful in discovering where a book came from.

 

Now, just to confuse matters, I can't get to a lot of my 35 cent variants. I was able to reach a stack of ones I have that reportedly came from the same collection. The dealer I bought them from had probably about 50-60 of them, I only got the last batch of 33 by going to the guys house. According to him, the collector bought them all off the same newstand, and had both 30 and 35 copies of every book for which there was a variant. Here's the kicker that may screw up your detective work: Some have a thick blue centered stripe, some have a 1/8" top left stripe, and most have nothing at all. So, this raises the possibility that some distributors used a single color and varied it's location, width, or presence in order to distinguish week of release.

 

I couldn't find my Marvel Presents 12, which is from Tenn., but will keep looking for it for you.

[cosmic-spider-man]

a few things are worth pointing out. In general, Marvel was very consistent with their releases. The same title almost always came out the same week of every month. And this is regardless of region or distributor. Also, it is definitely interesting to look at the distribotor marks as a means of detecting other cities in which these were released. However, there is a danger here. Many distributors likely shared marks-not a problem as long as they weren't geographically close. From my understanding, distributors' only concern was that the mark not only recorded the week of release, in order to pull unsold books in a timely manner, but also to distinguish their books from other nearby distributors. This was done in order to make sure that a distributor was not fradulently provided with returns from another source. There are only so many patterns a distributor could use, so I would guess there is some redundancy across the country--not a concern as long as no one else in the region had the same mark. However, since we are dealing a small pool of distributors, your idea is probably very useful in discovering where a book came from.

 

Good to hear form you silverandbronze some Great Info and some good points I also fear that two distributors used the same marks and I do know that two different sorces did spray the whole tops of their comics but I think I will eventually be able to tell them apart. I think the biggest problem will be if two Test Markets don't mark them at all like Wilmington NC.

In my understanding of Distribution marks "which is not very good" each week of the month has a different color and if Marvel released their comics on time then a certain tital would always have that color marks, Lets take ASM for example from the Toledo chart well ASM 169, 170 & 172 were all in the Yellow colum, the 171 is in the Green colum, and the 173 is in the Red colum, well before I started this I would have assumed that they would have all been the same color. So if my understanding of how Distribution is correct then ASM 171 and 173 came out different weeks than the others either that or I have no ideal how Distribution marks were used . and I am very sure all the ones I have on my Toledo chart are correct. Their are some that do all have the same color and they are all reprints, Marvel's Greatest, Marvel Super Action and Marvel Super Heroes of course these are bimonthly but maybe Marvel was more on time with these since they were reprints .

Well so far I am sure their are at least 5 test markets one of which is still a mystery to me but most of the comics I got form Motor City came from their and I also got some form MGD5 on ebay that must have come form this 5th Test Market and I think when I get that Toledo chart more complete I will be able to fit those into a 5th Test market. thier are two more comics that don't fit I have one with the Memphis like marks but looks like the color is orange and if this is the case that would be 5 colors for Memphis and I don't think that is likely. I also have 5 colors on the comics with the one inch band in the middle, Green, Red, Yellow, Black & Blue, my thinking hear is maybe the Orange one is either from another market or is just a mistake I need to take a better look at that one, the other with the one inch band does any one think maybe at some point the Tuscaloosa distributor may have subsituted black for blue I guess I will know when I get to that chart.

 

Now, just to confuse matters, I can't get to a lot of my 35 cent variants. I was able to reach a stack of ones I have that reportedly came from the same collection. The dealer I bought them from had probably about 50-60 of them, I only got the last batch of 33 by going to the guys house. According to him, the collector bought them all off the same newstand, and had both 30 and 35 copies of every book for which there was a variant. Here's the kicker that may screw up your detective work: Some have a thick blue centered stripe, some have a 1/8" top left stripe, and most have nothing at all. So, this raises the possibility that some distributors used a single color and varied it's location, width, or presence in order to distinguish week of release.

 

I really like to hear how and where 35 cent variants are found and I especially like to hear form the orginal owners like Daethwalker, but I really hope the guy you got them form was telling you one because if he is not I am wasting my time hear . I think that the group of variants you bought must have came from at least 3 different locations " I need to believe this in order to go on with this project" I wish their was a way to be sure. I have also bought a large collection of these from the orginal owner who says that in his area you could not find any 30 cent ones or he would have bought those instead.

 

Well I hope I am not Wasting my time I nearly have a chart done for the Memphis Test market I will try to post it a little later tonight if I get it done.

 

silverandbronze I really value your opinion and hope it don't sound like I don't. I would love to hear anything you have to say on this and any info you may want to offer would be Great.

[cosmic-spider-man]

I finaly got that Memphis TN. chart completed but it has a lot more holes in it than the Toledo one did but I will attach it anyway for all that are interested to see and if anyone can help fill any of the holes that would be Great.

 

I also heard from Glenn last night and he comfirms that his High Grade Wilimgton NC. collection of 100+ variants have no Distribution marks on them so I think that verifys that Wilimgton NC. distributor did not mark their comics and I would also think for High Grade collectors the Wilimgton ones would be the most disireable examples.

 

Well I will get to work on that Tuscaloosa AL.chart in the next few days and compare the three and see if the comics from each of those test markets were released in the same weeks or not, if so then I may be able to predict most of the missing comics from all the charts if not it will be a very long process.

 

Edited October 19, 2004 by cosmic-spider-man

[cosmic-spider-man]

Well I have a chart of the Tuscaloosa AL. 35 cent variants that I know of and I have a big problem with this one their are 5 different colors instead of 4 and I am not sure why but I am sure all the comics on this chart came from Tuscaloosa. All the comics I have seen form Tuscaloosa have about a one inch band of color near the middle of the top edge if anyone finds any like this let me know what you have and where it came form if you know. I still need a lot of help on this project so anyone interested please feel free to make suggestions or give your opinions I am open to any help I can get

Also like to thank Daffy06 from ebay who has helped me add a few more to my Toledo OH. chart I will try to update it before long and post it hear.

[Darthdiesel]

[cosmic-spider-man]

Thanks Darth I also thought I would through this on hear for anyone interested in the differences of these Distribution marks on Marvel's 35 cent variants I posted this eairler on S&B 35 cent variant thread but hear it is again.

 

[ShieldAgent]

This is really cool, Terry. I commend you efforts!

 

Is Glenn going to give you a book by book recap?

 

Also glad to hear that Daffy is helping you out. What about bonas?

[cosmic-spider-man]

I still have not contacted bonas yet but I will try.

 

I was very happy that both Glenn and Daffy replied to my emails but I not sure if either one is willing to sit down and list every one they have and I can't blame them it took me hours to do mine and I am sure they have almost as many as I do if not more it would be Great if they did but that is up to them and I will be happy with any info they are willing to share .

Edited October 22, 2004 by cosmic-spider-man

[comichunter]

thanks for the info, Terry!

 

my 187 Fantastic Four Variant has a thin red line at the top left. Not exactly too sure where it came from, though.

 

Still trying to figure out why the inside indicia list 35 cents as the cover price.

[cosmic-spider-man]

Thanks comichunter I am sure that your FF 187 must have came from Memphis TN. orginaly.

 

Also very Cool find on that 35 cent in the indicia on that FF 187 I went through and checked every Marvel comic from that month Oct. and the FF 187 is the only one with 35 cent in the indicia.

 

Does any one think that maybe their were some delay in releasing this pictular issue and that posibably it was released with the eairly Nov. issues instead of with the Oct. ones since it is the only one with the 35 cent in the indicia? Could this have been the very Last Marvel 35 cent price variant ?

 

Also wandering about that Marvel Greatest 74 that Darth brought up with the 30 cent diamond price and it being a Nov. 77 issue does anyone have one of those handy and can check what price in the indicia on that one wonder if it says 30 cent? Is it posible that this one was moved up a week to cover for a late FF 187 or am I way off hear ?

[comichunter]

regarding the 30 cent marvel 's greatest 74, check out this auction:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33827&item=2284298013&rd=1

 

seems there are more out there. part of a multi pack? i have seen some of those 30 centers with diamond around in SF. i might have a couple, but don't quite know where they are.

[cosmic-spider-man]

Hear is something very interesting I have discovered a printing error in my Howard the Duck #15 35 cent variant it has 4 pages where the color plates were switched "see DiceX's thread in Comic Book Grading and Restoration Issue about Production Flaws".

 

Hear is what I am thinking if the 35 cent variants were printed at the same time as the normal 30 cent issues which I assume they were because if they were not they would be reprints right.

And since the 35 cent variant of this Howard the Duck 15 has 4 pages of errors and the normal 30 cent verision does not would this not mean that the 35 cent variants were printed first and after they corrected the error they printed the normal 30 cent ones. Is this Proff that 35 cent variants were printed before the normal 30 cent version ? I don't know for sure but I have seen two HTD 15 variants with this error and I have seen dozens of the normal 30 cent version with out it and it doesn't make sense that the error would happen at the end of a print run which would require plate changes what does everyone else think?

Edited November 28, 2004 by cosmic-spider-man

[underthebigw]

That is truly interesting. Why don't you post a thread in the General forum in order to get the expertise of those with printing experience--I'm pretty sure a lot of people ignore the variants threads if they're not into it. It's a really neat idea, though and would shut up those few skeptics who still dismiss them as 2nd printings

[cosmic-spider-man]

Update to the Memphis TN. chart comming soon !!!!

I would like to thank Kevin Kinser "spyder17" on ebay he has taken the time to meet with me and let me go through all his 35 cent variants and list all the Distribution marks on all of them and thanks to him I will be updating my Memphis TN. chart in a few days he had 46 more that I did not have on my chart and I will be putting them on hear for all to see.

 

Also I would like to say what a great guy he is for taking the time to do this and I thought the least I could do is to plug his ebay auctions I think he has 5 35 cent variants up now " kevins auctions " so all you 35 cent variant collectors check them out. He will probably be listing the rest of them a few at a time over the next few months and they are some nice comics he has got 8 of them CGC graded and 1 was 7.5, 3 were 8.0 and the other 4 were 8.5 and all the ones he has that are not graded look just as good as the graded ones and a few even look better so it is safe to say all of them are preaty much VF to VF/NM and if I didn't already have all of them I would be bidding on them myself. I still may bid on a few for upgrades.

[cosmic-spider-man]

well I finaly got that new Memphis chart done and it now has over 100 examples on it and it is interesting to compare it to my Toledo chart a lot of the colums do match up but a few don't. I still don't have the weeks figured out but I think the more complete the charts are the eaiser it will be to get this nailed down.

 

Also the more variants I see the more I think that their may not be a 6th test market and if their is they must not have any distribution marks on them like the Wilmington 35 cent variants and I really hope this is not the case but even if it is we will still be able to identify 4 of the test markets.

 

And about that 5th test market I still have not got a definite site but I have a few collectors telling me that it is Northern San Fransisco CA. and another collector from their that is sure it is not so for now the 5th Test market is still a Mystery and I hope some one will come forth with some info on this, maybe a orginal owner collection from this 5th area will surface before long I hope .

 

Anyway I hope their are a few still interested in this as much as I am and I will continue to post anything I find as long as others on hear think it is worth while and not a waste of space so let me know what you think. Thanks; Terry

Edited December 18, 2004 by cosmic-spider-man