Batman #1 Club 7 7

[Primetime]

36 minutes ago, LDarkseid1 said:

My buddy just sold his for $16K.

a bargain if the interior was complete but coverless. 

[LDarkseid1]

1 hour ago, Primetime said:

a bargain if the interior was complete but coverless. 

It was a very nice coverless complete copy, and I’m not sure about that. There’s no sales to prove it’s a $20K and up book. He bought his copy at auction a couples years ago for roughly $14K. He had it on eBay for a while for around $18K-$20K with no takers. Seems like it’s worth roughly what he sold it for.

[Gotham Kid]

On 5/28/2020 at 7:40 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

That is absolutely, 100% the same book.  It’s gone from a CBCS restored label to a CGC blue label, and now it’s back in a CBCS label, but this time it’s blue. I absolutely agonized about buying this from mycomicshop. I’m so glad I didn’t. Here is the most current incarnation 

Man, I love this F hobby !

[telerites]

On 5/29/2020 at 6:53 PM, Dark Knight said:

I can't remember a time where there was a reversal in cover cleaned books.  This may be the first I've seen. Usually cover cleaned books are irreversible, unless it was dry cleaned but the label didn't state that.  Reinforcement to my knowledge would be a problem to remove because the cover could be loose or possibly detached.  It was gutsy for the person who did the resto. removal, and if it were me, I'd leave it alone. But anyways, there is a bad stigma with this book now that the full history is shown.

 

On 5/29/2020 at 7:35 PM, Primetime said:

agreed Brian. I think any cleaning on a third party label would refer to a solvent clean as opposed to a dry clean. That said, knowing a book was disassembled, cover removed from interior, staples taken out in order to solvent clean the cover makes me 

Dry cleaning doesn't warrant a restored label does it?

And since I don't follow Voldy's grading standards, I assume their stance on solvent cleaning didn't change and now allow it as unrestored?

 

[Mr bla bla]

So the book went from moderate resto 6.0 to universal 4.5 cbcs after resto removal. And jumped from 40K to 115K.

It shows that if you refrain from butchering your plods, You leave money on the table. In this case 75K.

I predict in a few years there will only be extensive plods left in the marketplace. All moderate plods will have undergone removal. Heck: this has already happened with the slight plods. How often do you see a slight plod? Never. Cause they have all been butchered to harvest the dough.

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Mr bla bla

[Gotham Kid]

19 minutes ago, Mr bla bla said:

I predict in a few years there will only be extensive plods left in the marketplace. All moderate plods will have undergone removal. Heck: this has already happened with the slight plods. How often do you see a slight plod? Never. Cause they have all been butchered to harvest the dough.

Agree. Here's a SA key listed that will go to auction this month (Heritage). Grade date 18/05/2020

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Gotham Kid

[Chicago Boy]

2 hours ago, Gotham Kid said:

Agree. Here's a SA key listed that will go to auction this month (Heritage). Grade date 18/05/2020

 

I’d bring the color touch back on that beauty 

[Mr bla bla]

3 hours ago, Gotham Kid said:

Agree. Here's a SA key listed that will go to auction this month (Heritage). Grade date 18/05/2020

 

the reaction of the market to the Cgc policy of colour coded labels is slowly undermining the tiers of their own resto grading (slight, mod, ext). Its only a matter of time. The market will force them to a) either abandon colour coded labels (purple), or b) redefine their resto tiers (since there are soon to be no (or absurdly few) books to carry the slight or mod designation).

So, - As the butchering goes on, look for yet another reform of the plod-grading standards🤑

Edited June 7, 2020 by Mr bla bla

[Dark Knight]

The least CGC should do I think is to put on their blue labels that color touch was removed.  They have golden age books with small amount of color touch on cover, but why can't they do the opposite as well?

[KCOComics]

13 minutes ago, Dark Knight said:

The least CGC should do I think is to put on their blue labels that color touch was removed.  They have golden age books with small amount of color touch on cover, but why can't they do the opposite as well?

I agree. It seems almost criminal not to disclose CT removal. 

 

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, KCOComics said:

2 hours ago, Dark Knight said:

The least CGC should do I think is to put on their blue labels that color touch was removed.  They have golden age books with small amount of color touch on cover, but why can't they do the opposite as well?

I agree. It seems almost criminal not to disclose CT removal. 

Ummm.................sorry to say, but it seems that the two of you are forgetting something very obvious here. 

We are comic book collectors here first and foremost who cares about the books that we collect, but CCG is a business entity first and foremost who cares about the amount of money they can make.  So, if you can show them how disclosing CT removal will make up for the loss of 2 revenue streams plus resubmission fees to their top and bottom lines, I am quite sure they would be very happy to disclose CT removal for the collectors here.    

Edited June 8, 2020 by lou_fine

[KCOComics]

6 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Ummm.................sorry to say, but it seems that the two of you are forgetting something very obvious here. 

We are comic book collectors here first and foremost who cares about the books that we collect, but CCG is a business entity first and foremost who cares about the amount of money they can make.  So, if you can show them how disclosing CT removal will make up for the loss of 2 revenue streams plus resubmission fees to their top and bottom lines, I am quite sure they would be very happy to disclose CT removal for the collectors here.    

While this is true,  CGC's market is collectors.  And I would like to believe their employees and Matt are people who care about the integrity of collecting. 

This is obviously a growing problem in the industry and given CGCs position,  I think they have an obligation to address it. 

And I understand CGC never wants to bring down the price of a collectible, but the industry can't incentivize this practice. 

[D84]

13 hours ago, KCOComics said:

I agree. It seems almost criminal not to disclose CT removal. 

 

It's just a dishonest as not disclosing restoration. 

[batman_fan]

The problem is CGC doesn’t necessarily know the damage was done by color touch removal so they would be assuming what caused the damage.

As a side, I have no idea how any sane person would grade that Hulk as a 7.0

[LDarkseid1]

7 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

The problem is CGC doesn’t necessarily know the damage was done by color touch removal so they would be assuming what caused the damage.

As a side, I have no idea how any sane person would grade that Hulk as a 7.0

What would you grade it at?

[Mr bla bla]

6 minutes ago, LDarkseid1 said:

What would you grade it at?

7.5 🥴

[batman_fan]

16 minutes ago, LDarkseid1 said:

What would you grade it at?

5.0 to 6.0 max.  I find missing pieces to be far more degrading than light stains but CGC sees it the opposite 

[lou_fine]

11 hours ago, KCOComics said:

18 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Ummm.................sorry to say, but it seems that the two of you are forgetting something very obvious here. 

We are comic book collectors here first and foremost who cares about the books that we collect, but CCG is a business entity first and foremost who cares about the amount of money they can make.  So, if you can show them how disclosing CT removal will make up for the loss of 2 revenue streams plus resubmission fees to their top and bottom lines, I am quite sure they would be very happy to disclose CT removal for the collectors here.    

While this is true,  CGC's market is collectors.  And I would like to believe their employees and Matt are people who care about the integrity of collecting. 

This is obviously a growing problem in the industry and given CGCs position,  I think they have an obligation to address it. 

And I understand CGC never wants to bring down the price of a collectible, but the industry can't incentivize this practice. 

Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, although we may indeed wish that CGC's primary market would be the true collecting base, clearly this is NOT the case because if it was they would have been out of business a long time ago.  

Collectors, and in particular, vintage quality comic book collectors are primarily interested in a grading service on a "one and done for all time" basis.  CGC's primary target customer base, on the other hand is much more geared towards the graded label collectible market speculators for much more recent and readily available books that actually don't carry much value except for that hopeful big number on the top left corner.  Especially in the case of flippers who treat these books as nothing more than vehicles or tradeable commodities to flip back out in their CPR+ game as soon as they are acquired.  As such, we have the current grading service in place which is really based more upon the concept of the "grade once and resubmit multiple times" business strategy which serves to satisfy their CCG ownership in terms of helping to maximize their top and bottom line numbers.    

With respect to Matt and the CCG employees, I believe you are forgetting there is a world of difference between "working for money" and "playing for fun".  In a business working environment, even though you might enjoy partaking in what many would consider to be a fun activity, believe me that there are still overall corporate goals and individual targets which you would have to strive to meet as an employee working in an employee to employer relationship.  

If it was really all about the integrity of the hobby and collecting comics for what it is irrespective of the money aspect of it, do you really think we would have all of the ubiquitous and rampant acceleration of pressing and other forms of artifical manipulation of books that is not only so prevalent in today's marketplace, but also strongly and fully driven by the grading companies themselves?  Sad to say, but all you have to do is to "follow the money" to see what is happening to this wonderful hobby of ours.  

Since there's really not much we can do with respect to the "money dynamics" of this current marketplace, as long as we go into it with our eyes wide open and still able to get as much enjoyment out of these funny books as we can, it's still okay and good for me because of our strong underlying and ever undeniable love for the hobby itself.    

Edited June 8, 2020 by lou_fine

[poizon9886]

Finally!

 

[Mr bla bla]

4 hours ago, poizon9886 said:

Finally!

 

Holy cow 😳