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Heritage February

440 posts in this topic

 

 

I saved this scan of Action Comics #1 from years ago. Can't remember where I found it or if it is the original.

 

act1art.jpg

 

yeah that's totally legit :insane:

 

I was searching for a scan of Action 15 on an external hard drive thinking it has been up for auction before and found this.

 

As I said, I can't remember where it came from. Maybe it is for some kind of foreign printing of the comic.

 

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Wouldn't the OA cover to Action Comics #15 be the earliest known surviving superhero cover in comics? Age may not matter 99% of the time, but I think it plays a major importance with this piece. It may also be the oldest surviving piece of Superman original art too.

 

The piece's historical significance is really the main thing it has going for it, since there aren't many collectors who focus on GA superhero art, there are precisely zero people in the hobby who focus on Fred Guardineer, and there aren't even that many Superman-focused collectors either. Remember when that Marvel #1 page went up for sale some years back? Everybody oohed and ahhed and reveled in the history of it, but only the Mannarinos stepped up to the plate (not sure if they still own it or if it was part of the deal that went to Halperin).

 

I suspect the ultimate buyer of the Action #15 cover will be someone exactly like the Mannarinos or Halperin - most likely in their 50s or 60s with more of a long time interest in and connection to Golden Age material. Most of the younger BSDs I suspect would much prefer to buy something they really love and are nostalgic about, as opposed to something that is merely "historic". It's very different from comics, where GA is king by virtue of scarcity (imagine how much AF #15 would be worth if it was as scarce as the GA keys) - in OA, age and value/scarcity of the underlying comic book don't mean nearly as much; a key Copper Age cover can easily be worth multiples of a good Golden Age cover, for example, because that's where the nostalgia, interest and money is these days.

 

Just look at how many views my Schomburg cover has gotten on CAF since it was posted last year - a mere fraction of the views any of the comparably good Bronze/Copper pieces I've posted this year have gotten. I think it's one of the best things in my entire collection, but you wouldn't know it by looking at the number of views. For most people, the Silver Age is really the Golden Age of OA, while GA is like prehistoric caveman times. Remember the Batman #30 cover that sold 2 years ago for less than $50K? Very cool and historic, and yet it sold for a fraction of what the FF #30 or ASM #30 or other comparable Marvel Silver Age cover would fetch, because there is a much, much, much smaller pool of potential interested parties for a piece like that.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the cover will still do very well - I just doubt it's going to be the mass BSD/dealer feeding frenzy that was predicted since I don't think this piece, as cool and historic as it is, fits in a lot of collectors' wheelhouses. 2c

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Well those are all good points but I think there's another factor as well. I love schomburg and if all his covers existed Id love to ogle them on caf, but I since I know they mostly don't - I dont search caf for them. I'm sure many others are the same way, driving down views.

 

I'm sure some of that goes on when it comes to collecting GA art as well - since people know there is very little out there they don't even start with it.

 

The fact all the EC art is out there helps the collectibility of it. (It's also quality art, but still). And I know it's out there so once in a while Ill search caf for it.

 

I assume the weird tales of the future 3 and weird mysteries 5 covers don't exist or Id be looking at them every week :)

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I saved this scan of Action Comics #1 from years ago. Can't remember where I found it or if it is the original.

 

act1art.jpg

 

yeah that's totally legit :insane:

 

I was searching for a scan of Action 15 on an external hard drive thinking it has been up for auction before and found this.

 

As I said, I can't remember where it came from. Maybe it is for some kind of foreign printing of the comic.

 

Its a photoshop mash up that a boardie did years ago. Its as real as a 3 dollar bill

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Wouldn't the OA cover to Action Comics #15 be the earliest known surviving superhero cover in comics? Age may not matter 99% of the time, but I think it plays a major importance with this piece. It may also be the oldest surviving piece of Superman original art too.

 

Is everyone forgetting the panels from Action #1 that were cut up and used as the first daily strip that sold at Sotheby's a decade ago?

 

It would be hard to have an older Superman piece than that.

 

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Well those are all good points but I think there's another factor as well. I love schomburg and if all his covers existed Id love to ogle them on caf, but I since I know they mostly don't - I dont search caf for them. I'm sure many others are the same way, driving down views.

 

I'm sure some of that goes on when it comes to collecting GA art as well - since people know there is very little out there they don't even start with it.

 

It's definitely out of sight, out of mind. But, even if it was out there, OA <> comics. Just because a comic is older, rarer and more historic doesn't necessarily translate over to OA. In fact, rarity can sometimes work against an artist or genre by not allowing an active market to develop, as you alluded to.

 

Most collectors' appreciation for the quality of art and stories really begins in the '60s (and continues on after that), even for characters who were around before then. Just look at the demand for, say, Neal Adams Batman art, Frank Miller DKR art, Bolland KJ art, etc. vs. the demand for Jerry Robinson or Di ck Sprang Batman art, for example. Not that the latter is necessarily cheaper, but its price will be set by maybe 2-3 collectors, whereas there will be hoards of people after prime examples of those later artists above.

 

Heck, just look at the price of those historic 1940s Simon/Kirby superhero covers that Burkey has for sale - tremendously cool, rare and historic, but not moving despite being priced at about the same cost as a decent mid-'70s Kirby cover. I think the reality is that even the best GA art is going to attract a much smaller pool of potential buyers. It's a totally different dynamic vs. the comic book world - with rarity taken out of the equation, people tend to focus on the art from the stories and creators they admire and are nostalgic for the most, and that is generally Silver, Bronze and Copper Age OA. 2c

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Wouldn't the OA cover to Action Comics #15 be the earliest known surviving superhero cover in comics? Age may not matter 99% of the time, but I think it plays a major importance with this piece. It may also be the oldest surviving piece of Superman original art too.

 

The piece's historical significance is really the main thing it has going for it, since there aren't many collectors who focus on GA superhero art, there are precisely zero people in the hobby who focus on Fred Guardineer, and there aren't even that many Superman-focused collectors either. Remember when that Marvel #1 page went up for sale some years back? Everybody oohed and ahhed and reveled in the history of it, but only the Mannarinos stepped up to the plate (not sure if they still own it or if it was part of the deal that went to Halperin).

 

I suspect the ultimate buyer of the Action #15 cover will be someone exactly like the Mannarinos or Halperin - most likely in their 50s or 60s with more of a long time interest in and connection to Golden Age material. Most of the younger BSDs I suspect would much prefer to buy something they really love and are nostalgic about, as opposed to something that is merely "historic". It's very different from comics, where GA is king by virtue of scarcity (imagine how much AF #15 would be worth if it was as scarce as the GA keys) - in OA, age and value/scarcity of the underlying comic book don't mean nearly as much; a key Copper Age cover can easily be worth multiples of a good Golden Age cover, for example, because that's where the nostalgia, interest and money is these days.

 

Just look at how many views my Schomburg cover has gotten on CAF since it was posted last year - a mere fraction of the views any of the comparably good Bronze/Copper pieces I've posted this year have gotten. I think it's one of the best things in my entire collection, but you wouldn't know it by looking at the number of views. For most people, the Silver Age is really the Golden Age of OA, while GA is like prehistoric caveman times. Remember the Batman #30 cover that sold 2 years ago for less than $50K? Very cool and historic, and yet it sold for a fraction of what the FF #30 or ASM #30 or other comparable Marvel Silver Age cover would fetch, because there is a much, much, much smaller pool of potential interested parties for a piece like that.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the cover will still do very well - I just doubt it's going to be the mass BSD/dealer feeding frenzy that was predicted since I don't think this piece, as cool and historic as it is, fits in a lot of collectors' wheelhouses. 2c

 

It's a fair assessment that, in parts, rings true.

 

Interestingly, whenever we have threads about 'grails' in OA, 'first appearance' covers like Action # 1 or Detective # 27 seem to rate highly with people here. From an artwork perspective (divorcing what they look like from what they represent), I don't particularly like either of these two 'key' covers as images.

 

On the other hand, something like Schomburg's Timely cover artwork would eclipse most types of Marvel's Silver Age cover artwork, for me (his work is consistently excellent). His Harvey cover art (which you own a nice example from) feature (mostly) forgotten characters that modern day collectors are just not familiar with (as opposed to the long-running Marvel superheroes).

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1005753&GSub=46261

 

Although only one Scomburg Timely cover is known to exist, I could see further examples, should they ever surface, perform strongly in the marketplace.

 

 

 

 

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I certainly don't have the money, but if i did, i'd definitely be interested in material like that. I didn't know about the Marvel Comics #1 pages but i can say without a doubt that with zero nostalgic tis, i'd be interested in something like from a historical perspective any day of the week.

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I don't disagree Gene - but I do think there are specific GA artists, and Schomburg is one of them, that would have keen interest in their OA if more was out there 2c

 

Schomburg, LB Cole ...... FULL STOP

 

I happen to like Flessel but not a lot of his Original work on the market.

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I don't disagree Gene - but I do think there are specific GA artists, and Schomburg is one of them, that would have keen interest in their OA if more was out there 2c

 

Schomburg, LB Cole ...... FULL STOP

 

I happen to like Flessel but not a lot of his Original work on the market.

 

Most people like/admire GA art, if not for the content, than for its history. The question is, though, would you carve room out of your Copper Age OA budget for Flessel or Schomburg or Cole? For most collectors, the answer is "no". :sorry:

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I don't disagree Gene - but I do think there are specific GA artists, and Schomburg is one of them, that would have keen interest in their OA if more was out there 2c

 

Schomburg, LB Cole ...... FULL STOP

 

I happen to like Flessel but not a lot of his Original work on the market.

 

Most people like/admire GA art, if not for the content, than for its history. The question is, though, would you carve room out of your Copper Age OA budget for Flessel or Schomburg or Cole? For most collectors, the answer is "no". :sorry:

 

I'd say that's true for most copper OA collectors, and its a large part of the market.

 

But I think you'd be turning some GA and SA comic book collectors (not a lot, but enough) into GA art collectors (of the well known artists anyways) if the art was all out there.

 

I like the point you're making, I agree. Copper is in the wheelhouse of a lot of people, and even better its all out there. So, whether or not GA art exists copper and silver would get prices disproportionate to the history because as you say silver age is basically golden age for OA. But 1940s gold would have its place too, I have no doubt of that. There are many classic GA covers and I have no doubt collectors would enjoy owning them if the supply was large enough to establish a market.

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I think there's an interplay between comics & OA throughout the ages that affects each market. GA books are generally rare enough, particularly in grade, to keep the interests of collectors piqued. With SA and later, the books are generally abundant enough that seeking them out isn't as fun as chading the art, which does more to prop up the market. If I've got 5 figures if disposable income, what fun is it to chase down a run of DKR in 9.8. It will probably take 30 seconds on ebay. If I want a 9.4 GA book with a Lou Fine cover, I'll have to work harder.

 

It's more fun to chase rarer items, so OA will supersede comics when comics are abundant. When comics are rarer, the need to pursue more challenging alternatives becomes less important.

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I love a lot of golden age artists: Lou Fine, Jack Cole, Mac Raboy, Reed Crandall, Will Eisner, Schomburg, etc.

 

That Uncle Sam story by Fine/Eisner in the last Heritage auction was stunning.

 

If I had the money I definitely would be buying stuff like that, but alas ...

 

 

 

 

 

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Scans are up of the Action cover and the Batman splash…the Batman splash is pretty cool, but I really do love the Action cover!

 

I will definitely be in the early bidding on the Batman Splash (thumbs u

 

Unfortunately it is the later bidding that counts :cry:

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I love a lot of golden age artists: Lou Fine, Jack Cole, Mac Raboy, Reed Crandall, Will Eisner, Schomburg, etc.

 

That Uncle Sam story by Fine/Eisner in the last Heritage auction was stunning.

 

If I had the money I definitely would be buying stuff like that, but alas ...

 

Matt Baker as well.

 

But, none except Schomburg worked on a title that would be remotely popular with those who are collecting SA art today. There is historical significance, but not much market desirability.

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the baker stuff that does exist I find all the notations all over the art really distracting, at least to me.

 

You are right, and its the point Gene was making, but GA covers a long period of time. There would be artists whose work would do well. Imagine a world where there was enough barks to go around :cloud9: And then there's there's still all the horror stuff too. Wolverton horror covers and panels, many classic Everett atlas covers, certainly the schomburg stuff as you say, all the classic GA covers, all of kirby's GA output, etc.

 

SA would still be the king of the OA heap, but the existence of the material would convert some people and it would chug along just fine.

 

In a world where this stuff was available and free think I'd rather have the FF1 and AF15 covers than the tec 27 and action 1 covers, and that's precisely the point. And... when you get past tec 27 and action 1 its an even easier choice. The more fun 52 cover or the xmen 1 cover? No contest for me, the xmen 1 cover.

 

 

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The question is, though, would you carve room out of your Copper Age OA budget for Flessel or Schomburg or Cole? For most collectors, the answer is "no". :sorry:

But that`s like asking a One Direction or Miley Cyrus fan if she would carve room out of her budget for a Beatles CD.

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