Heritage February

[delekkerste]

The question is, though, would you carve room out of your Copper Age OA budget for Flessel or Schomburg or Cole? For most collectors, the answer is "no".

But that`s like asking a One Direction or Miley Cyrus fan if she would carve room out of her budget for a Beatles CD.

 

It's actually nothing like that. And, I didn't mean just Copper Age collectors, I meant all collectors who are very passionate about Silver, Bronze, Copper or Modern Age art. They may pay lip service to GA art (e.g., "I'd be all over LB Cole art...if I only had the money!"), but when it comes down to taking cash away from the OA they are truly passionate and nostalgic about just to own something "historic", it rarely happens, especially among the sub-45 year old set.

 

I have to disagree with Dan (Bronty) - it's not like lack of supply is the main thing keeping people from getting into GA art. It's not like GA art doesn't exist or doesn't turn up in widely publicized sales - yeah, there's not much Kirby GA Cap art out there, but there are two Kirby GA superhero covers that have been sitting unsold on Burkey's site even though they're priced like his mid-to-late '70s covers. People just don't care enough. Even if more of the GA Cap art did exist, most people would still undoubtedly prefer the Silver Age twice-up material anyway because that's the style of art and the storylines/characters they remember. Unlike comics, you don't need to collect GA art as a challenge (since SA and later is generally quite plentiful); it's plenty challenging/competitive enough buying top-tier SA, BA and CA art as it is!

[suspense39]

I'm actually going to sell a couple SA pieces in one of these auctions coming up in order to acquire some GA pieces. The longer I'm in this hobby the more it seems like that's where the value is and I find myself liking the historic areas of collecting more and more. Im starting to lean towards eisner, herriman, mccay type art, and away from superheroes.

[drdroom]

The question is, though, would you carve room out of your Copper Age OA budget for Flessel or Schomburg or Cole? For most collectors, the answer is "no".

But that`s like asking a One Direction or Miley Cyrus fan if she would carve room out of her budget for a Beatles CD.

 

Totally unfair and totally funny!

[marktom]

I'm actually going to sell a couple SA pieces in one of these auctions coming up in order to acquire some GA pieces. The longer I'm in this hobby the more it seems like that's where the value is and I find myself liking the historic areas of collecting more and more. Im starting to lean towards eisner, herriman, mccay type art, and away from superheroes.

 

I agree with the sentiment about the GA pieces being the best value going today (at least relative to what a lot of the Bronze age pieces seem to be going for). Price-wise, the pendulum has swung so far toward nostalgia, and away from artistic merit that I think it's crazy.

 

All of the artists you mentioned (McCay, Herriman, Eisner), along with others such as Frazetta, Toth, and Raymond, were true artists. Not just comic or strip artists. I'm sorry, but when I see (and I'm just using this as a recent example, and I don't mean to belittle anyones collecting focus), a 70's Perez Avengers cover going for the price of a hand colored/hand framed Herriman KK, or 2 KK sundays, or 2 Raymond Flash Gordon's, or 4 Foster Prince Valiants, I just can't comprehend it. And I grew up on the 70's books. Byrne X-Men, Miller DD, Howard the Duck, and Avengers are all in my nostalgic zone. But the artistic appeal when compared to the true greats of the medium just isn't there.

 

--- Mark

[suspense39]

I'm actually going to sell a couple SA pieces in one of these auctions coming up in order to acquire some GA pieces. The longer I'm in this hobby the more it seems like that's where the value is and I find myself liking the historic areas of collecting more and more. Im starting to lean towards eisner, herriman, mccay type art, and away from superheroes.

 

I agree with the sentiment about the GA pieces being the best value going today (at least relative to what a lot of the Bronze age pieces seem to be going for). Price-wise, the pendulum has swung so far toward nostalgia, and away from artistic merit that I think it's crazy.

 

All of the artists you mentioned (McCay, Herriman, Eisner), along with others such as Frazetta, Toth, and Raymond, were true artists. Not just comic or strip artists. I'm sorry, but when I see (and I'm just using this as a recent example, and I don't mean to belittle anyones collecting focus), a 70's Perez Avengers cover going for the price of a hand colored/hand framed Herriman KK, or 2 KK sundays, or 2 Raymond Flash Gordon's, or 4 Foster Prince Valiants, I just can't comprehend it. And I grew up on the 70's books. Byrne X-Men, Miller DD, Howard the Duck, and Avengers are all in my nostalgic zone. But the artistic appeal when compared to the true greats of the medium just isn't there.

 

 

 

--- Mark

 

Good comparisons......I don't get it either.

[stinkininkin]

I'm actually going to sell a couple SA pieces in one of these auctions coming up in order to acquire some GA pieces. The longer I'm in this hobby the more it seems like that's where the value is and I find myself liking the historic areas of collecting more and more. Im starting to lean towards eisner, herriman, mccay type art, and away from superheroes.

 

I agree with the sentiment about the GA pieces being the best value going today (at least relative to what a lot of the Bronze age pieces seem to be going for). Price-wise, the pendulum has swung so far toward nostalgia, and away from artistic merit that I think it's crazy.

 

All of the artists you mentioned (McCay, Herriman, Eisner), along with others such as Frazetta, Toth, and Raymond, were true artists. Not just comic or strip artists. I'm sorry, but when I see (and I'm just using this as a recent example, and I don't mean to belittle anyones collecting focus), a 70's Perez Avengers cover going for the price of a hand colored/hand framed Herriman KK, or 2 KK sundays, or 2 Raymond Flash Gordon's, or 4 Foster Prince Valiants, I just can't comprehend it. And I grew up on the 70's books. Byrne X-Men, Miller DD, Howard the Duck, and Avengers are all in my nostalgic zone. But the artistic appeal when compared to the true greats of the medium just isn't there.

 

--- Mark

 

The names mentioned (McCay, Herriman, Eisner, Foster, Frazetta, Toth, Raymond etc) might feel undervalued compared to some Bronze and Copper age stuff, but all those names you mentioned, their best stuff is still highly coveted and command a price reflecting that fact, so I'm not sure if there are a lot of bargains to be had in that particular sand box.

 

Scott

 

[suspense39]

You definitely have to put up some money for those artists, it just appears to me to be the better value. I don't think anyone said they were cheap.

[marktom]

 

When we're talking tens of thousands of dollars for comic art it's hard to view anything as a "bargain". I think the days of bargains on any artist's comic art are probably over unfortunately.

 

But value is a different thing. The best artists and pieces are always expensive. It's just that more and more I'm seeing art, that frankly just isn't that good, going for what I consider outrageous prices. And it's all nostalgia based, and certainly not artistically based. That's what I see as being out of whack.....but maybe I'm alone on this, and to each his own.

 

 

[alxjhnsn]

While we are dreaming, I'll take any Jack Cole Plastic Man art lying around.

 

It broke my little heart to read that the owner of Quality Comics cut it up to keep others from reprinting the books.

 

That struck me as so stupid - if they books are valuable to re-print, why wouldn't he want to be the one that did it? Sigh...

 

 

[Terry Doyle]

When we're talking tens of thousands of dollars for comic art it's hard to view anything as a "bargain". I think the days of bargains on any artist's comic art are probably over unfortunately.

 

But value is a different thing. The best artists and pieces are always expensive. It's just that more and more I'm seeing art, that frankly just isn't that good, going for what I consider outrageous prices. And it's all nostalgia based, and certainly not artistically based. That's what I see as being out of whack.....but maybe I'm alone on this, and to each his own.

 

 

You're not alone but, as you say, to each his own.

[tth2]

a 70's Perez Avengers cover going for the price of a hand colored/hand framed Herriman KK, or 2 KK sundays, or 2 Raymond Flash Gordon's, or 4 Foster Prince Valiants, I just can't comprehend it

2 Raymond Flash Gordons could go for $120K combined, easily. Are you saying that a Perez Avengers cover has gone for $120K?

 

If so, I agree, that IS completely incomprehensible.

[marktom]

a 70's Perez Avengers cover going for the price of a hand colored/hand framed Herriman KK, or 2 KK sundays, or 2 Raymond Flash Gordon's, or 4 Foster Prince Valiants, I just can't comprehend it

2 Raymond Flash Gordons could go for $120K combined, easily. Are you saying that a Perez Avengers cover has gone for $120K?

 

If so, I agree, that IS completely incomprehensible.

 

2 Raymond FG strips could go for a million I guess. Just as many other Perez Avengers covers would go for well over $45K. But you may want to look at some actual numbers. You can argue the value judgement of comparing what you'd rather have, but the numbers aren't off.

 

Check Heritage auctions last year. A nice Raymond FG sold in February for $25K. One sold there a few months ago for $35K. My point remains, I'd take 2 Flash Gordon strips comparable to the one that sold for $25K (and throw in another $5K) than what is essentially an unpublished Perez cover. Lesser Herriman KK examples can be found for around $10K too. So you can get 4 of those for the 1 Perez cover. Even more than I stated earlier. And yes, there are $50K+ Herriman's out there too, so that doesn't make the Perez worth $200K --- and again I hate picking on the Perez cover. It's a nice cover and I hope the owner gets a lot of enjoyment out of it. I know many, many others would love to own it. I'm just trying to give a specific example. There are certainly many more examples out there, but that was a very public transaction with a lot of discussion that went with it.

 

-- Mark

[stinkininkin]

When we're talking tens of thousands of dollars for comic art it's hard to view anything as a "bargain". I think the days of bargains on any artist's comic art are probably over unfortunately.

 

But value is a different thing. The best artists and pieces are always expensive. It's just that more and more I'm seeing art, that frankly just isn't that good, going for what I consider outrageous prices. And it's all nostalgia based, and certainly not artistically based. That's what I see as being out of whack.....but maybe I'm alone on this, and to each his own.

 

 

Couldn't agree more with this part. I think it's a very wise unwritten rule that it's not a good idea to publicly slam art and artists that people spend hundreds or thousands or maybe even hundreds of thousands on. It's not just that people spend big money on art but they spend big money on crappy art. As Terry said, to each their own. But in private, I bet we all talk with our fellow art buddies and wail about how someone "spent stupid money for that piece of c r a p?" And from that standpoint, you are quite right that something is "out of whack".

 

Scott

 

[Bronty]

well, mostly we are COMIC art collectors not comic ART collectors

[jimjum12]

well, mostly we are COMIC art collectors not comic ART collectors

 

..... a subtle yet very astute observation.... and it DOES make quite a difference. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[tth2]

well, mostly we are COMIC art collectors not comic ART collectors

Very well said.

[tth2]

a 70's Perez Avengers cover going for the price of a hand colored/hand framed Herriman KK, or 2 KK sundays, or 2 Raymond Flash Gordon's, or 4 Foster Prince Valiants, I just can't comprehend it

2 Raymond Flash Gordons could go for $120K combined, easily. Are you saying that a Perez Avengers cover has gone for $120K?

 

If so, I agree, that IS completely incomprehensible.

 

2 Raymond FG strips could go for a million I guess. Just as many other Perez Avengers covers would go for well over $45K. But you may want to look at some actual numbers. You can argue the value judgement of comparing what you'd rather have, but the numbers aren't off.

 

Check Heritage auctions last year. A nice Raymond FG sold in February for $25K. One sold there a few months ago for $35K.

I do follow the Raymond Flash Gordon market, which is why I think your point of reference is way off.

 

The $35K sale you refer to in August was heavily restored, with some parts filled in, replaced, and redrawn. The February $25K sale was half Jungle Jim and also a relatively late piece (1940), when Raymond`s art was no longer as lush as during his peak period. More representative Flash Gordon pieces have gone for $68K, $51K, $44K, $77K and $72K on Heritage.

 

My point remains, I'd take 2 Flash Gordon strips comparable to the one that sold for $25K (and throw in another $5K) than what is essentially an unpublished Perez cover.

Actually, I totally agree with you. I was mostly curious whether a Perez Avengers cover had sold for $120K, which to me would be incomprehensible, but then again I`ve never been a big Perez fan. I don`t dislike him, he just doesn`t inspire any fanatical loyalty in me.

 

Lesser Herriman KK examples can be found for around $10K too. So you can get 4 of those for the 1 Perez cover. Even more than I stated earlier. And yes, there are $50K+ Herriman's out there too, so that doesn't make the Perez worth $200K --- and again I hate picking on the Perez cover. It's a nice cover and I hope the owner gets a lot of enjoyment out of it. I know many, many others would love to own it. I'm just trying to give a specific example. There are certainly many more examples out there, but that was a very public transaction with a lot of discussion that went with it.

I too would prefer comic strip art by the likes of Raymond and Foster, although I note that their stuff is not cheap either. But definitely cheaper than many popular comic book art, particularly considering that the workmanship is much much better.

 

But hey, I`m delighted that the types of fanboys who spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on McFarlane, Miller, Byrne, etc. (all of whom I like, actually), aren`t interested in classic comic strip art.

[Terry Doyle]

well, mostly we are COMIC art collectors not comic ART collectors

 

How about COMICAL Art Collectors . . . do they figure in the equation?

[Nexus]

The question is, though, would you carve room out of your Copper Age OA budget for Flessel or Schomburg or Cole? For most collectors, the answer is "no".

But that`s like asking a One Direction or Miley Cyrus fan if she would carve room out of her budget for a Beatles CD.

 

Totally unfair and totally funny!

 

Very pointed.

 

I don't know about Tim, but no Miley Cyrus or Abercrombie & Fitch allowed in my house!

[Bronty]

So, predictions on the action 15 cover? I want to say 375 although listening to some of the other estimates Im starting to wonder if Im low. I don't *think* I am... but I am the lowest estimate I e heard tossed around.