CGC v. PGX?

[Hado]

What in gods name is "RC soda"?

[slym2none]

Illegal? Probably. Actionable civilly? Definitely. Fact of the matter is, if the company's "fraud" was this rampant, they would have at least been sued out of existence a long time ago. I'm not so sure the company's owner "knows" his employees slab and sell their own books. I don't keep tabs on my employees' dealings 24/7, and I doubt most employers do. And to presume that employees of CGC have not done the same thing is a bit naïve in my opinion regardless. Ultimately, the market will decide the value of the book anyway, and again, if a company were so out of control and scandalous it most likely would have come under some kind of federal investigation by now or sued into bankruptcy.

 

PGX is, at best, a 3 people operation and you don't think that Daniel Patterson knows exactly what Ryan Elliott is doing? :doh:

 

This is the second time you've made the claim about CGC employees slabbing & selling their own books - care to back that statement up with some proof?

 

I don't know what the owner of PGX knows, and neither does anyone else on here. And I didn't say I "knew" of CGC employees selling books they have slabbed and graded, what I "said" was, that you would be naïve to not assume that some of them have not done the same at some point. Not that it matters, since the market will ultimately determine what a book is "worth", anyway.

 

What's with this vitriolic obsession you have with PGX anyway ? If you don't want to use them, don't use them. If you don't want to buy their books slabbed, don't buy them. Just don't give yourself an aneurysm over the fact that all of the propaganda being hurled around on here has yet to put them out of business. Obviously there are enough other people who find value in their service to keep them going. But I guess you would prefer a monopoly so you can pay $500 to get a book slabbed.

 

-J.

 

Even more nonsense ::

 

What I would prefer is a reputable competitor in the grading market - which PGX isn't, no matter how much you want them to be.

 

If you want to send books to PGX, knock yourself out, but pretending that the scandals, scams and the general unethical behavior coming from that particular garage-based operation is somehow just propaganda is ridiculous and dishonest. It's like that which keeps them in business when, by all reasonable accounts, Elliott & Patterson should have been drummed out of the comic book collecting world long ago.

 

So ... please ... knock it off with the PGX shilling :thumbsup:

 

...and if they're as bad as you seem to think they are, then the market will cause that to happen, and then you will have the monopoly that you are apparently champing at the bit for.

 

-J.

 

They are that bad.

 

Again - for the slow of reading in this thread - it's because of people like you who try to pretend that they're a legitimate competitor to CGC that it hasn't happened yet

 

"People like me"? You mean "people" who are open minded and prefer an open market with fair competition? "People" who like to let the market decide? Aren't those kinds of "people" called "capitalists"?

 

-J.

 

Some people are capitalists. Some are apologists. I think we all know which one you stand closer to.

 

:shrug:

 

Please see four posts up.

 

-J.

 

No thanks, I have seen enough of your posts. Besides, I doubt it would change my mind.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

What in gods name is "RC soda"?

 

Mud water.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Hepcat]

Look I'm not saying anyone should send their books to PGX to get graded, I am more offering counter point. Obviously this is not the site to do that .

 

Feel free to offer whatever opinions you please on this site with respect to CGC or otherwise. After all, other posters will feel just as free to disagree with you. That's what makes a market.

 

[Jaydogrules]

What in gods name is "RC soda"?

 

Mud water.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

"RC soda" = Royal Crown soda. They make a cola. Now you're just being petty. Typical.

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

Look I'm not saying anyone should send their books to PGX to get graded, I am more offering counter point. Obviously this is not the site to do that .

 

Feel free to offer whatever opinions you please on this site with respect to CGC or otherwise. After all, other posters will feel just as free to disagree with you. That's what makes a market.

 

 

...and a board interesting. Thank you for offering a little more perspective Hepcat.

 

-J.

[Hado]

What in gods name is "RC soda"?

 

Mud water.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

"RC soda" = Royal Crown soda. They make a cola. Now you're just being petty. Typical.

 

-J.

Never heard of it.

[slym2none]

What in gods name is "RC soda"?

 

Mud water.

 

 

"RC soda" = Royal Crown soda. They make a cola. Now you're just being petty. Typical.

 

-J.

 

Typical?

 

BTW - I think RC Cola tastes like mud water. OK, not really - more like mud Pepsi. IMHO, it is a horrible attempt at making a cola drink.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

What in gods name is "RC soda"?

 

Mud water.

 

 

"RC soda" = Royal Crown soda. They make a cola. Now you're just being petty. Typical.

 

-J.

Never heard of it.

 

If you see it, don't waste your money. Supermarket-branded cola would be better.

 

Sorry, I am just being petty. That's typical of me, though how a noob would even begin to think that, IDK.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Hado]

Typical

[Hado]

We had a supermarket soda here when I was young, called "Big 8"

 

We were on the poor side, so that's what we got packed in our lunches. I don't know why exactly, I think it was because if how thin the aluminum of the can was, but it was impossible to open a can without it exploding.

 

Lousy cheap soda.

[Jaydogrules]

What in gods name is "RC soda"?

 

Mud water.

 

 

"RC soda" = Royal Crown soda. They make a cola. Now you're just being petty. Typical.

 

-J.

Never heard of it.

 

If you see it, don't waste your money. Supermarket-branded cola would be better.

 

Sorry, I am just being petty. That's typical of me, though how a noob would even begin to think that, IDK.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

What's "typical" is someone going off point and turning petty when they have nothing left constructive to say. Now you're even bashing poor old RC .

 

And I'm sorry but do they give out special prizes around here when someone gets to a certain post number? Keep it up and this board will only have about eight people on it, each with over 1,000,000 post counts. I'm starting to think that's what some on here actually want. Come on already.

 

-J.

[mschmidt]

"People like me"? You mean "people" who are open minded and prefer an open market with fair competition? "People" who like to let the market decide? Aren't those kinds of "people" called "capitalists"?

 

-J.

 

"People like me" refers to people who are uninformed about the PGX shenanigans.

 

Also, there is no need to sign your post.

 

The extent of the vast majority of your data is comprised almost exclusively of hearsay, conjecture, supposition, and speculation. I have not seen any hard data that would stand up even in a civil court, let alone in a criminal prosecution. Maybe that's actually the reason they are still in business, and not because of "people like me". Food for thought.

 

 

I won't do your research for you. If you want to make the mistake of getting your books slabbed via PGX, go nuts.

 

If you do want to research PGX, simply do a Google search to find the hard data that would stand up in a civil court and perhaps in a criminal prosecution.

 

Also, there is no need to sign your post.

 

Right. And the "data" on the internet that has been cited here is the very data that I am referring to. Apparently the market in general believes they are a credible enough competitor to CGC, and thank goodness, since monopolies in any industry never turn out so well. And again, I have never subbed any books to PGX, the fact that you have apparently missed my statement to that fact in several prior posts suggests that your animosity to PGX is based more in emotion than an actual objective analysis.

 

-J.

 

And here's my sig again just for you:

 

Multiple examples of Ryan Elliott cracking out CGC books and then reslabbing them as PGX books with higher grades (and no mention of resto):

Another Great Reason to NEVER buy a PGX Book or deal with them

 

Thread about the CGC 8.5 Avengers #4 which then turned in obviously-trimmed PGX 9.6 book (with no mention of the trim job):

former 8.5 cgc Avengers 4 now 9.6 pgx

 

Here's the Cerebus #1 PGX 9.4 with undisclosed resto and where djbrady4u pretends he's not Ryan Elliott:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6795913#Post6795913

 

An article about fake Star Wars 35 cent variants in PGX holders:

http://bronzeagemarvelvariants.blogspot.com/2013/01/fake-star-wars-35-cent-price-variants.html

 

And a very long thread with yet even more examples of PGX's unethical business practices:

ANOTHER WARNING - djbrady4u is PGX's grader

 

But, let me guess, you're too "open minded" to care about the "data", right?

 

Thank you for compiling this. I've seen a few of those threads. They consist primarily of anecdotal horror stories regarding PGX and one guy that worked there at some point (still works there?).

 

There are also anecdotal horror stories about CGC. I have a few myself and I know plenty of others who do as well. But I am not going to bash them on their own board. And I don't necessarily wonder why PGX would be bashed on it's competitor's board. For every wonky PGX slab you show me I can show you a CGC one. For every missed resto in a PGX slab I can show you a spine rolled from the front to back cover in a CGC slab, that resulted in a book getting a higher grade. Point being, you can nitpick a book here and there from both companies. You can find horror stories for both companies depending on what blog or site you choose to visit.

 

My only point here now as it was in the beginning is that it is better to have two imperfect companies competing against one another, than it is to have one imperfect company ruling a monopoly.

 

Feel free to disagree with me all you like, but just understand that, at the end of the day, that that is the only point of mine that you are disagreeing with.

 

Yeah, I saw this one coming a mile away - it's fairly obvious from your posts that no matter which kind of hard evidence you're presented with, you still want to cling to the notion that CGC and PGX are somehow similar. Good luck with that :thumbsup:

 

How are they not similar? They both subjectively grade comic books and put them into a slab and then sell themselves as being objective arbiters of said comic book's grade on the open marketplace.

 

I have already agreed that CGC offers a superior overall product and as such is the market leader. But just because I prefer Coca Cola doesn't mean I don't at least want the option of being able to buy an RC cola every once in awhile, or want to deny others from being able to buy an RC if they want. So sue me. Geesh.

 

A much more apt comparison would be Coca Cola with "whatever sludge your neighbor dragged out of his clogged sewer pipe".

 

By equating PGX with CGC, you're legitimizing a "company" (and I use that term very loosely) that has been proven time & time again to provide a service that's worse than just buying a book raw & taking your chances. If you want an alternative to CGC, buy raw books from one of the dealers that actually know how to grade comic books and do resto detection - I guarantee you it's a better option than dealing with ye ol' den of scammers (aka PGX).

[Jaydogrules]

N

"People like me"? You mean "people" who are open minded and prefer an open market with fair competition? "People" who like to let the market decide? Aren't those kinds of "people" called "capitalists"?

 

-J.

 

"People like me" refers to people who are uninformed about the PGX shenanigans.

 

Also, there is no need to sign your post.

 

The extent of the vast majority of your data is comprised almost exclusively of hearsay, conjecture, supposition, and speculation. I have not seen any hard data that would stand up even in a civil court, let alone in a criminal prosecution. Maybe that's actually the reason they are still in business, and not because of "people like me". Food for thought.

 

 

I won't do your research for you. If you want to make the mistake of getting your books slabbed via PGX, go nuts.

 

If you do want to research PGX, simply do a Google search to find the hard data that would stand up in a civil court and perhaps in a criminal prosecution.

 

Also, there is no need to sign your post.

 

Right. And the "data" on the internet that has been cited here is the very data that I am referring to. Apparently the market in general believes they are a credible enough competitor to CGC, and thank goodness, since monopolies in any industry never turn out so well. And again, I have never subbed any books to PGX, the fact that you have apparently missed my statement to that fact in several prior posts suggests that your animosity to PGX is based more in emotion than an actual objective analysis.

 

-J.

 

And here's my sig again just for you:

 

Multiple examples of Ryan Elliott cracking out CGC books and then reslabbing them as PGX books with higher grades (and no mention of resto):

Another Great Reason to NEVER buy a PGX Book or deal with them

 

Thread about the CGC 8.5 Avengers #4 which then turned in obviously-trimmed PGX 9.6 book (with no mention of the trim job):

former 8.5 cgc Avengers 4 now 9.6 pgx

 

Here's the Cerebus #1 PGX 9.4 with undisclosed resto and where djbrady4u pretends he's not Ryan Elliott:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6795913#Post6795913

 

An article about fake Star Wars 35 cent variants in PGX holders:

http://bronzeagemarvelvariants.blogspot.com/2013/01/fake-star-wars-35-cent-price-variants.html

 

And a very long thread with yet even more examples of PGX's unethical business practices:

ANOTHER WARNING - djbrady4u is PGX's grader

 

But, let me guess, you're too "open minded" to care about the "data", right?

 

Thank you for compiling this. I've seen a few of those threads. They consist primarily of anecdotal horror stories regarding PGX and one guy that worked there at some point (still works there?).

 

There are also anecdotal horror stories about CGC. I have a few myself and I know plenty of others who do as well. But I am not going to bash them on their own board. And I don't necessarily wonder why PGX would be bashed on it's competitor's board. For every wonky PGX slab you show me I can show you a CGC one. For every missed resto in a PGX slab I can show you a spine rolled from the front to back cover in a CGC slab, that resulted in a book getting a higher grade. Point being, you can nitpick a book here and there from both companies. You can find horror stories for both companies depending on what blog or site you choose to visit.

 

My only point here now as it was in the beginning is that it is better to have two imperfect companies competing against one another, than it is to have one imperfect company ruling a monopoly.

 

Feel free to disagree with me all you like, but just understand that, at the end of the day, that that is the only point of mine that you are disagreeing with.

 

Yeah, I saw this one coming a mile away - it's fairly obvious from your posts that no matter which kind of hard evidence you're presented with, you still want to cling to the notion that CGC and PGX are somehow similar. Good luck with that :thumbsup:

 

How are they not similar? They both subjectively grade comic books and put them into a slab and then sell themselves as being objective arbiters of said comic book's grade on the open marketplace.

 

I have already agreed that CGC offers a superior overall product and as such is the market leader. But just because I prefer Coca Cola doesn't mean I don't at least want the option of being able to buy an RC cola every once in awhile, or want to deny others from being able to buy an RC if they want. So sue me. Geesh.

 

A much more apt comparison would be Coca Cola with "whatever sludge your neighbor dragged out of his clogged sewer pipe".

 

By equating PGX with CGC, you're legitimizing a "company" (and I use that term very loosely) that has been proven time & time again to provide a service that's worse than just buying a book raw & taking your chances. If you want an alternative to CGC, buy raw books from one of the dealers that actually know how to grade comic books and do resto detection - I guarantee you it's a better option than dealing with ye ol' den of scammers (aka PGX).

 

that is exactly why I made the comparison as coca cola to RC and not to pepsi.

 

 

-J.

[Garlanda]

The only reason to send a book to any company to get slabbed is to establish a grade set by a neutral third party so we don't all argue over whether a spine stress is a more serious flaw than a blunt corner, etc.

 

The only reason we accept the little numbers put on top of the slab is because we all, collectively, approve of the reputation of the party who puts that little number there. I can grade books and heat-seal them in plastic bags, but it doesn't matter because you have no reason to accept my reputation.

 

The reputation of PGX/CGG has been so tarnished by the cited examples that a large portion of the market will not accept their grading as objective. People will still use PGX because it's less expensive, they don't know about the scams, or they don't care about the risk. Sales data I've seen suggests that PGX books sell for less than similar CGC books.

 

As for me, I own two PGX slabs and intend to have them regraded by CGC.

 

my

[DR.X]

What in gods name is "RC soda"?

 

 

[Park]

Look I'm not saying anyone should send their books to PGX to get graded, I am more offering counter point. Obviously this is not the site to do that .

 

Feel free to offer whatever opinions you please on this site with respect to CGC or otherwise. After all, other posters will feel just as free to disagree with you. That's what makes a market.

 

 

...and a board interesting. Thank you for offering a little more perspective Hepcat.

 

-J.

 

 

Hepcat thinks he is a cat.

[Hado]

What in gods name is "RC soda"?

 

 

Well, if it's got a mad, mad taste it's gotta be good.

[slym2none]

What in gods name is "RC soda"?

 

Mud water.

 

 

"RC soda" = Royal Crown soda. They make a cola. Now you're just being petty. Typical.

 

-J.

Never heard of it.

 

If you see it, don't waste your money. Supermarket-branded cola would be better.

 

Sorry, I am just being petty. That's typical of me, though how a noob would even begin to think that, IDK.

 

 

What's "typical" is someone going off point and turning petty when they have nothing left constructive to say. Now you're even bashing poor old RC .

 

And I'm sorry but do they give out special prizes around here when someone gets to a certain post number? Keep it up and this board will only have about eight people on it, each with over 1,000,000 post counts. I'm starting to think that's what some on here actually want. Come on already.

 

-J.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

Look I'm not saying anyone should send their books to PGX to get graded, I am more offering counter point. Obviously this is not the site to do that .

 

Feel free to offer whatever opinions you please on this site with respect to CGC or otherwise. After all, other posters will feel just as free to disagree with you. That's what makes a market.

 

 

...and a board interesting. Thank you for offering a little more perspective Hepcat.

 

-J.

 

 

Hepcat thinks he is a cat.

 

 

 

 

-slym