Comics, Pulps, and Paperbacks: Why such a discrepancy in values? 25 25

[damonwad]

45 minutes ago, OtherEric said:

Nothing wrong with that.  For me it's Ace D-Series books that I just can't resist.  Avons, I figure I've got a nice little collection that at least shows good examples of the run.

All kinds of great books in the Ace D's. 

[Surfing Alien]

56 minutes ago, damonwad said:

That makes sense on the extra interiors. I wonder if any of the first 12 titles have 16 titles listed on the interior.

Here are my recent Avon pick-ups. 

 

Elmer Gantry (Avon #1). Globe end papers with 12 titles listed in interior.

 

The Big Four (Avon #3). Globe endpapers with 12 titles listed in interior.

 

The Corpse in the Green Pyjamas (Avon #8). Globe endpapers with 12 titles listed in the interior.

 

Mystery at Spanish Hacienda (Avon #13). Globe endpapers and 16 titles listed in interior.

 

Wow. I just realized what an Avon nerd I am. 

 

Sweet pickups and research. Elmer Gantry was a big deal back in the day but sadly seems to not have as much interest now. Probably because it's about religion, even though about hypocrisy, and not a mystery, sci-fi or drug book like Popular, Pocket and Ace #1's. I like the movie with Burt Lancaster and thought that might carry it on but it doesn't seem so. 

That said, your copy is beautiful  and there's plenty of mysteries and other goodness in the early Avons to nerd out on. The series was and is my first love in vintage paperbacks and happy to see you share these beautiful books  They're not easy to find so nice with those stiff cardboardy covers.

[Surfing Alien]

2 hours ago, OtherEric said:

That's the cover I have on my copy; it's the interior list of titles that only goes to 12.

Thank you for the info on 2nd printing of 1-12; almost every reference I can find says that if it has globe endpapers, it's a first print.  Given that the interior list only goes to 12, it's possible that they had extra interiors they added a latter run of covers to.  (I know from collecting Oz books that a book with mixed states of covers and interiors is not uncommon.)

Makes sense, it sounds like a classic case of a 1st printing interior with a 2nd state cover. Since they released 4 more titles shortly thereafter, they included the new titles on the back cover but continued  using the available, already printed interiors with 12 titles. The series was quite successful so it all probably happened within a couple of months.

[OtherEric]

13 minutes ago, damonwad said:

All kinds of great books in the Ace D's. 

I really do need to get all of mine scanned one of these years, but lots are in storage right now. Here's a couple I have handy, I think these are the only books H. Beam Piper had in the Ace D series.  I've got a couple of others from the F series by him, as well.  Apparently due to an editor not liking the story, Crisis in 2140 (also known as Null-ABC) wasn't reprinted when Ace finally sorted out the rights to Piper's books in the 70's; it only came back into print when people figured out that most of Piper's work was never correctly copyright renewed.

[damonwad]

47 minutes ago, Surfing Alien said:

Sweet pickups and research. Elmer Gantry was a big deal back in the day but sadly seems to not have as much interest now. Probably because it's about religion, even though about hypocrisy, and not a mystery, sci-fi or drug book like Popular, Pocket and Ace #1's. I like the movie with Burt Lancaster and thought that might carry it on but it doesn't seem so. 

That said, your copy is beautiful  and there's plenty of mysteries and other goodness in the early Avons to nerd out on. The series was and is my first love in vintage paperbacks and happy to see you share these beautiful books  They're not easy to find so nice with those stiff cardboardy covers.

I liked the Lancaster Gantry too, but I saw it so long ago that I just remember the basics of the plot. My dad loves it though.

[Surfing Alien]

47 minutes ago, OtherEric said:

I really do need to get all of mine scanned one of these years, but lots are in storage right now. Here's a couple I have handy, I think these are the only books H. Beam Piper had in the Ace D series.  I've got a couple of others from the F series by him, as well.  Apparently due to an editor not liking the story, Crisis in 2140 (also known as Null-ABC) wasn't reprinted when Ace finally sorted out the rights to Piper's books in the 70's; it only came back into print when people figured out that most of Piper's work was never correctly copyright renewed.

 

A Planet For Texans is one of my favorite Ace Sci-Fi covers. It's hilariously stereotypical if you think about it 😅

[OtherEric]

1 hour ago, Surfing Alien said:

A Planet For Texans is one of my favorite Ace Sci-Fi covers. It's hilariously stereotypical if you think about it 😅

ISFDB says it's by Arthur Renshaw, who I had never heard of before I just looked him up.  It looks like this might be his only paperback cover, or at least his only SF paperback cover.

[Surfing Alien]

28 minutes ago, OtherEric said:

ISFDB says it's by Arthur Renshaw, who I had never heard of before I just looked him up.  It looks like this might be his only paperback cover, or at least his only SF paperback cover.

He's highly qualified. Wonderful perspective and use of color (and irony😅)

[Surfing Alien]

14 hours ago, damonwad said:

Wow. I just realized what an Avon nerd I am. 

 

So here's some more Avon nerdiness for you.

I pulled out the 2 copies of Elmer Gantry I currently have. Neither is a 1st print with Globe endpapers.
I believe they might be (what i'll call) 3rd and 4th "printings", unless we locate copies with intervening characteristics.

The first one has the 16 titles listed on the rear cover, but 26 listed inside on the last book page.
It has no globe endpapers - the inside back cover is blank where the Globe Endpapers would have been affixed on
(what i'll call) a "16 title, Globe endpaper" cover state.  

 

This one is likely a second printing of the text section, with the additional 14 titles, with a second state cover with the 16 titles on the rear but no globe endpapers affixed.

I'm calling it a 3rd "printing" for ease, even though it is likely only the 2nd printing of the interior pages
I guess in technical bookman's terms it would be 2nd printing with its 1st state cover.



The second one has no titles listed on the back cover and the inside cover shows a house ad with pictures of 14
of the titles. The last text page has the same 26 titles as the example posted above.

I posit that this is the same second printing of the text section, but they had used up the remaining 16 title
rear covers so they printed up new covers with the generic Avon back cover and the house ad on the inside. Variations of the generic Avon back cover became the norm for Avons going forward.

I'm calling it a 4th "printing" for ease although in technical bookman's terms, it would be 2nd printing with its
2nd state cover.

It is possible that the scenario is flipped, and they already had the generic back cover ready to go for the second printing of the interior text and only used the 16 title covers because they ran out of covers. But knowing the frugalities of publishers, i'd think the scenario I outlined is more likely.

In sum, i think the printing order for Avon #1 might be:

1st Print - Globe Endpapers - 12 titles inside and on the back cover
2nd Print - Globe endpapers - 12 titles inside and 16 on the back cover
3rd print - Blank inside cover - 26 titles inside and 16 on the back cover
4th Print - House ad inside cover - 26 titles inside and generic Avon back cover.

One last point is that the 1st 3 Prints I described here have "Avon Pocket-Sized Books" on the front cover.
The 4th just says "An Avon Book". This might be a result of the Appeals Court injunction against them using "Pocket" on the cover (that was was subsequently overturned) and might provide a clue for dating this printing.

I'm happy to update and change this list if "intervening" printings are produced.

I know it's pure nerdiness and only of interest to a few people in the world but it's a mystery and we like mysteries here so we may as well try to solve it!

 

 

[OtherEric]

6 hours ago, Surfing Alien said:

 

I know it's pure nerdiness and only of interest to a few people in the world but it's a mystery and we like mysteries here so we may as well try to solve it!

 

 

Keep it up, I’m definitely one of those nerds as well and posts like this are like pure catnip to me!

[damonwad]

7 hours ago, Surfing Alien said:

 

So here's some more Avon nerdiness for you.

I pulled out the 2 copies of Elmer Gantry I currently have. Neither is a 1st print with Globe endpapers.
I believe they might be (what i'll call) 3rd and 4th "printings", unless we locate copies with intervening characteristics.

The first one has the 16 titles listed on the rear cover, but 26 listed inside on the last book page.
It has no globe endpapers - the inside back cover is blank where the Globe Endpapers would have been affixed on
(what i'll call) a "16 title, Globe endpaper" cover state.  

 

This one is likely a second printing of the text section, with the additional 14 titles, with a second state cover with the 16 titles on the rear but no globe endpapers affixed.

I'm calling it a 3rd "printing" for ease, even though it is likely only the 2nd printing of the interior pages
I guess in technical bookman's terms it would be 2nd printing with its 1st state cover.



The second one has no titles listed on the back cover and the inside cover shows a house ad with pictures of 14
of the titles. The last text page has the same 26 titles as the example posted above.

I posit that this is the same second printing of the text section, but they had used up the remaining 16 title
rear covers so they printed up new covers with the generic Avon back cover and the house ad on the inside. Variations of the generic Avon back cover became the norm for Avons going forward.

I'm calling it a 4th "printing" for ease although in technical bookman's terms, it would be 2nd printing with its
2nd state cover.

It is possible that the scenario is flipped, and they already had the generic back cover ready to go for the second printing of the interior text and only used the 16 title covers because they ran out of covers. But knowing the frugalities of publishers, i'd think the scenario I outlined is more likely.

In sum, i think the printing order for Avon #1 might be:

1st Print - Globe Endpapers - 12 titles inside and on the back cover
2nd Print - Globe endpapers - 12 titles inside and 16 on the back cover
3rd print - Blank inside cover - 26 titles inside and 16 on the back cover
4th Print - House ad inside cover - 26 titles inside and generic Avon back cover.

One last point is that the 1st 3 Prints I described here have "Avon Pocket-Sized Books" on the front cover.
The 4th just says "An Avon Book". This might be a result of the Appeals Court injunction against them using "Pocket" on the cover (that was was subsequently overturned) and might provide a clue for dating this printing.

I'm happy to update and change this list if "intervening" printings are produced.

I know it's pure nerdiness and only of interest to a few people in the world but it's a mystery and we like mysteries here so we may as well try to solve it!

 

 

Great stuff.

I've seen the court case mentioned before and believe you're correct on the reason for no more "pocket" on the cover.  I think  #16 is the last Avon "pocket-size" book.

 

One thing I noticed going through some copies on the internet is that there are some back covers with 20 titles listed (I saw examples of Avon #7 and #10 with a 20 title back). I would assume these backs were before they went to the generic text back you show

in your second book above.

 

I know it's impossible to tell with so few samples, but my guess is that if a variation of the back cover or interior "List of Titles" page occurs on one copy of #1-12, then there's a good chance it occurs on the others in the group. Same with #13-16 and #17-20.

Poor sales on some titles may have kept them from being reprinted though.

 

Let the nerdiness continue.

[Surfing Alien]

21 hours ago, damonwad said:

One thing I noticed going through some copies on the internet is that there are some back covers with 20 titles listed (I saw examples of Avon #7 and #10 with a 20 title back). I would assume these backs were before they went to the generic text back you show

in your second book above.

 

I know it's impossible to tell with so few samples, but my guess is that if a variation of the back cover or interior "List of Titles" page occurs on one copy of #1-12, then there's a good chance it occurs on the others in the group. Same with #13-16 and #17-20.

Poor sales on some titles may have kept them from being reprinted though.

 

Let the nerdiness continue.

I've done some looking also and agree on all 3 of your points.

I haven't seen an example of #1 with 20 titles on the back but it could be out there as an in-betweener. It might not though, which goes to your point about poor sales keeping some from being reprinted - there is also the certainty that some of the reprinting was staggered. For instance there may have been enough #1's on hand through the first 26 titles being released that they only ever went to the "16 titles" back cover and jumped to the generic back cover because they didn't need to reprint it during the time period of the "20 titles" back cover, while #7 and #10 came up for reprinting while the "20 titles" back was in use so got that treatment. I believe each nn# has it's own course that will need to be plotted, but they all combine to show the possibilities of what was used in the time period.

I did find this later printing on the 'bay. It lists 28 on the inside front cover and obviously many more on the inside back cover (he didn't picture it). It has the generic white back cover with 2 paragraphs that started being used in the later double digit Avons (around #57 is the first time I see it with 2 paragraphs rather than 3) It has the original yellow corner text block with the red "Pocket Sized" removed. So this is at minimum a 5th printing.

 

[Surfing Alien]

Ok, enough nerdiness for now, let's get back to the ladies...

Here's the risque Dell I mentioned i'd found a while back. Pretty rare to find "Tail-lights" like that on a Dell mapback. 

While I was at it I upgraded my copy of Seven Sneezes, which is still my favorite Dell cheesecake...

[Surfing Alien]

Got started on the Phantom Books quest with these 2 arrivals. They are pretty special in hand. They feel more refined than many other digest lines, similar to the Falcon Books. The George Gross cover on "Violent Night" is pretty killer... so to speak... "No Way Out" is no slouch either, it looks like it could be Gross as well but I can't find any attribution... I think i'm hooked 

[Randall Dowling]

5 hours ago, Surfing Alien said:

Got started on the Phantom Books quest with these 2 arrivals. They are pretty special in hand. They feel more refined than many other digest lines, similar to the Falcon Books. The George Gross cover on "Violent Night" is pretty killer... so to speak... "No Way Out" is no slouch either, it looks like it could be Gross as well but I can't find any attribution... I think i'm hooked 

Those are 2 of the last ones that I need!  Nice grabs, SA!! 

[Randall Dowling]

Here's a bunch of my latest arrivals.  Apologies in advance for the long post.    Start off with a couple of classics-

Followed by some more Bantams

And a title that seems oddly appropriate given current events...

A couple of vintage classics

Some cheap smut that was in remarkably good shape

Who doesn't love Sherlock Holmes?

A couple of tough white covers (you really can never have too many Frazetta covers)

And last but not least a couple of titles with art by some guy that did a lot of covers, Bob M. or something...

[OtherEric]

41 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said:

 

What a bunch of great pick-ups!

I was oddly amused by the fact the only two books in the lot that I personally have were in the same picture; although my copy of the Addams is the 60's hardcover reprint.  I need to track down the original or at least the Bantam; the later reprints are missing the Boris Karloff forward.

The Brown always surprises me with the 25c price tag; the book design and art always looks to me more like something from the 60's than the 50's. 

[Surfing Alien]

8 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

Those are 2 of the last ones that I need!  Nice grabs, SA!! 

Thought i'd seen you post "No Way Out" ? but was pretty sure i've never seen "Violent Night"

Wasn't intentionally blocking you (in fact they were somewhat mistitled, it was pure luck I stumbled on them)  Not worried though, you've done pretty well hunting these down They are pretty pricey in the storefronts, i'm gonna have to be very patient to find any bargains and i'm sure I will just have to pony up for some of them.

[Surfing Alien]

8 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

Here's a bunch of my latest arrivals.  Apologies in advance for the long post.    Start off with a couple of classics-

No apologies needed Variety is the spice of life. I need to work on the Fredric Browns, I used to have almost all of the Bantams. "The Last Kill" is killer Maguire. I've been looking for a nice copy but these late # Signets are tough to find in nice shape.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Surfing Alien

[Randall Dowling]

7 hours ago, Surfing Alien said:

Thought i'd seen you post "No Way Out" ? but was pretty sure i've never seen "Violent Night"

Wasn't intentionally blocking you (in fact they were somewhat mistitled, it was pure luck I stumbled on them)  Not worried though, you've done pretty well hunting these down They are pretty pricey in the storefronts, i'm gonna have to be very patient to find any bargains and i'm sure I will just have to pony up for some of them.

Absolutely, no worries, Amigo!  They are very tough but part of the fun is the hunt!  I am shocked at how difficult these are in nice shape.  And yes, I've definitely had to step up on paying tougher prices or go without on most of them.