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Comics, Pulps, and Paperbacks: Why such a discrepancy in values?
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6,527 posts in this topic

54 minutes ago, Pat Calhoun said:

well I looked up Ray Johnson online -wow- and am going to offer a tentative answer to the ? I asked Mastro: one learns such things by surfing the net as art ID-ing is an ongoing process. Mastro, please keep us appraised if you see any others you can fill in that we have drawn a blank on. Here's another look...

img835.jpg

I can see it with those eyebrows but would love a linky to anything that gives facts to the proposition.

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8 hours ago, Pat Calhoun said:

Hi Mastro - wishing you well. If'n I may ask: how'd you glean this and is there more on the subject? thanks and cheers - Pat

The credit was mentioned on the Flickr page https://www.flickr.com/photos/56781833@N06/5604427347/in/pool-51468240@N00 by swallace99, and after what I saw, I didn’t have a compelling reason to disagree.

Raymond Johnson was a flashy sort of artist. He tended to paint women with slightly pudgy faces, long and slightly thick eyebrows, and flowing hair that was somewhat fluffy and curled a little towards the bottom, all with distinct shading:

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11 hours ago, Electricmastro said:

The credit was mentioned on the Flickr page https://www.flickr.com/photos/56781833@N06/5604427347/in/pool-51468240@N00 by swallace99, and after what I saw, I didn’t have a compelling reason to disagree.

So I took a pretty deep dive last night and this morning and there is very little, like as in Zero biographical info on Raymond Johnson. I have always enjoyed his work but so little of it is authenticated through proof. Almost all of the attributions i've seen are on flickr and pinterest, although by admittedly well trained eyes. There are about 25 pieces of original artwork on the various artnet type sites.

If he did all the Avon covers i've seen attributed to him, he is likely the most iconic Avon painter that nobody knows. 

I doubted the sci fi covers, because although the Green Girl and Earthman on Venus appear to be the same hand, the faces are more slender than his usual, nearly zaftig, women.

Then I saw this and reconsidered:

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?Piece=1596817&GSub=170530

If he did this iconic slender faced classic, he surely could've done the rest. Sometimes you need a reminder how well these guys could paint, that they could adapt different styles for different ouvres.

Edited by Surfing Alien
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3 hours ago, Surfing Alien said:

So I took a pretty deep dive last night and this morning and there is very little, like as in Zero biographical info on Raymond Johnson. I have always enjoyed his work but so little of it is authenticated through proof. Almost all of the attributions i've seen are on flickr and pinterest, although by admittedly well trained eyes. There are about 25 pieces of original artwork on the various artnet type sites.

If he did all the Avon covers i've seen attributed to him, he is likely the most iconic Avon painter that nobody knows. 

I doubted the sci fi covers, because although the Green Girl and Earthman on Venus appear to be the same hand, the faces are more slender than his usual, nearly zaftig, women.

Then I saw this and reconsidered:

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?Piece=1596817&GSub=170530

If he did this iconic slender faced classic, he surely could've done the rest. Sometimes you need a reminder how well these guys could paint, that they could adapt different styles for different ouvres.

Honestly, I think unless stuff is signed or mentioned on the Catalog of Copyright Entries, it’s hard to get any sort of “definitive” analysis, even when going by unsigned stuff on artnet type sites, so I think it’s ok to use a visual-based analysis, though I do think it helps to to understand the artist’s range in the first place now that you mention it.

Also, unless I’m mistaken, couldn’t he be the same Ray Johnson born in Michigan in 1927?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Johnson

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4 hours ago, Electricmastro said:

Also, unless I’m mistaken, couldn’t he be the same Ray Johnson born in Michigan in 1927?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Johnson

My thoughts on this.

I think it's highly unlikely that Ray Johnson the pb artist is the same as Ray Johnson the pop artist biographed in the linked wiki page. Having dug in and read most of the articles cited in the wiki page, they are either different artists or Ray Johnson the pop artist truly pulled the wool over his contemporaries eyes in his most spectacular prank.

Not a single article or memoir, some by close friends, mentions him doing paperback covers, nonetheless hundreds of them, throughout the late 40's through early 60's. Moreover, during this time frame, the articles all have him doing all abstract collages and art and hanging with De Koonings and other abstract artists. He was into Dadaism and all forms of anti commercial art, Fluxus and Correspondence art. The only mention of any graphic design was that he did some book covers for New Directions and others in the late 50's. New Directions book covers are all abstract.

Further, I don't see any mention of him ever doing any realistic art of any kind. Ray Johnson the abstract artist was fascinating and well worth reading up on. But if he was secretly pumping out hundreds of realistic pb covers for meager lucre while posing as an avant-garde, it would be a colossal farce. Perhaps the kind that Ray Johnson the performance artist would love to have performed, but I get the sense that the Ray Johnson who painted "The Metal Monster" was another man.

Although there's nothing on the internet about him, I wonder if there's any info in any of the old paperback collecting coffee table books that came out in the 80's and 90's?

Edited by Surfing Alien
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2 minutes ago, Surfing Alien said:

My thoughts on this.

I think it's highly unlikely that Ray Johnson the pb artist is the same as Ray Johnson the pop artist biographed in the linked wiki page. Having dug in and read most of the articles cited in the wiki page, they are either different artists or Ray Johnson the pop artist truly pulled the wool over his contemporaries eyes in his most spectacular prank.

Not a single article or memoir, some by close friends, mentions him doing paperback covers, nonetheless hundreds of them, throughout the late 40's through early 60's. Moreover, during this time frame, the articles all have him doing all abstract collages and art and hanging with De Koonings and other abstract artists. He was into Dadaism and all forms of anti commercial art, Fluxus and Correspondence art. The only mention of any graphic design was that he did some book covers for New Directions and others in the late 50's. New Directions book covers are all abstract.

Further, I don't see any mention of him ever doing any realistic art of any kind. Ray Johnson the abstract artist was fascinating and well worth reading up on. But if he was secretly pumping out hundreds of realistic pb covers for meager lucre while posing as an avant-garde, it would be a colossal farce. Perhaps the kind that Ray Johnson the performance artist would love to have performed, but I get the sense that the Ray Johnson who painted "The Metal Monster" was another man.

Although there's nothing on the internet about him, I wonder if there's any info in any of the old paperback collecting coffee table books that came out in the 80's and 90's?

Fair point indeed. Definitely warrants more research in any case.

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13 hours ago, Pat Calhoun said:

Doug Ellis, the art dealer who has the 'Metal Monster' original painting (from Surf's link above), sent me this when I e-asked about RJ...

Pat,
I think that it is the same artist.
Best, Doug
 

Interesting. I suspect that he may be using the Occam's Razor approach, which is easy, and understandable, but not necessarily reliable.

I dug a bit further and found Ray Johnson the Pop Artists estate online, it is a very extensive site. He is a pretty heavy hitter in the Pop Art world.

http://www.rayjohnsonestate.com/home/

I wrote a respectful email request to the curators of his estate, including some of the pics of the signature works that Electricmastro provided, and a link to Doug Ellis' painting, requesting feedback on whether their Ray ever produced this kind of work, or if he was trained in realism in his early career that he might have produced it. Hopefully i'll get a definitive answer to post here.

Here's a link to the best linked article I could find showing Pop Art Ray's work in the 40's and 50's

https://blackbird.vcu.edu/v9n2/gallery/matthews_s/message_widepage.shtml

I just find it hard to believe it's the same artist who sold this to the pulps in 1947 (When Pop Artist Ray was 19/20 years old)

https://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1309777

Unfortunately Raymond Johnson is an incredibly common name. If he's not Pop Art Ray Johnson and he wasn't found back in the 80's and 90's Vintage PB boom when some of the people involved in the production were still alive, we might never know.

 

 

 

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