ASM 300 Appreciation/ Club Thread
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1 hour ago, valiantman said:

32 years later, things can still change - especially based on information becoming available to a large group of people.  Overstreet info.  Newsstand info.  Apples.

Overstreet = amalgamation of prices from various sources

direct vs indirect = distribution method

Ergo not apples to apples

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2 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:
1 hour ago, valiantman said:

32 years later, things can still change - especially based on information becoming available to a large group of people.  Overstreet info.  Newsstand info.  Apples.

Overstreet = amalgamation of prices from various sources

direct vs indirect = distribution method

Ergo not apples to apples

Wow - I'm pretty sure you didn't get fables as a child either, did ya? :foryou:

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1 hour ago, Crushingame said:

I mean,  when will people realize the difficulty in finding a Newsstand in higher grade (9.6 WP)  and higher obviously “should”  be a lot more than a high grade Direct (9.6WP) if it hasn’t happened already?

The numbers associated with the CGC graded ASM #300 books wasn't known until... this year.  There isn't 32 years of knowledge about how hard it is to get each version of the book.  There's less than 5 months of knowledge, spread only about as far as the people who read this forum.

http://www.slabdata.com/blog/2020/amazing-spider-man-300/

I made the notes for four years, compiled the numbers, and wrote the article in May.  I wouldn't expect the market to check with me before bidding on things that have not had any price differences in the past.  Over time (not 5 months), it will be more obvious to everyone what the differences are.

Maybe years, maybe decades, but 21 CGC 9.6 direct for every 1 CGC 9.6 newsstand isn't "the same" and people can "sour grapes" themselves all day that they don't care about the difference, but there will be a difference and anyone paying attention would be taking advantage of the current same-price situation in the correct direction of the future values which are inevitable.  Imagine being able to pick up Star Wars #1 35-cent cover for the same price as the 30-cent cover because "who cares?!?" was happening for several years after the books came out.

The market finally noticed Spawn #1 differences about 25 years after it was printed, but I was two years ahead and I bought a stack of CGC 9.8 Spawn #1 newsstand books when they were the same price at $90.  I can now cash newsstand CGC 9.8 Spawn #1 in for $500 each whenever I feel like it and the people with direct editions can get about $140.  This type of information is one or two people noticing, a few people discussing it, some debate, a little bit of publicity and more discussion, people checking and double-checking the differences, and eventually... Spawn #1 newsstands completely separated in the market from Spawn #1 direct editions.

We're on the "a few people discussing it, some debate" stage of the process for ASM #300, since my article isn't exactly "publicity"... it's just a blog.  This isn't rocket surgery - people are constantly hyping brand new books which have no significance in the industry three months after the ink dries and lemmings are throwing the money off the cliff like mad for the latest variant of a nothing book with the first appearance of whoops-they-never-became-a-big-deal.  Meanwhile, ASM #300 will probably be the #1 CGC graded book forever and there are only two flavors... but it's not a 50/50 split.  Not even close.

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1 hour ago, valiantman said:

The numbers associated with the CGC graded ASM #300 books wasn't known until... this year.  There isn't 32 years of knowledge about how hard it is to get each version of the book.  There's less than 5 months of knowledge, spread only about as far as the people who read this forum.

http://www.slabdata.com/blog/2020/amazing-spider-man-300/

I made the notes for four years, compiled the numbers, and wrote the article in May.  I wouldn't expect the market to check with me before bidding on things that have not had any price differences in the past.  Over time (not 5 months), it will be more obvious to everyone what the differences are.

Maybe years, maybe decades, but 21 CGC 9.6 direct for every 1 CGC 9.6 newsstand isn't "the same" and people can "sour grapes" themselves all day that they don't care about the difference, but there will be a difference and anyone paying attention would be taking advantage of the current same-price situation in the correct direction of the future values which are inevitable.  Imagine being able to pick up Star Wars #1 35-cent cover for the same price as the 30-cent cover because "who cares?!?" was happening for several years after the books came out.

The market finally noticed Spawn #1 differences about 25 years after it was printed, but I was two years ahead and I bought a stack of CGC 9.8 Spawn #1 newsstand books when they were the same price at $90.  I can now cash newsstand CGC 9.8 Spawn #1 in for $500 each whenever I feel like it and the people with direct editions can get about $140.  This type of information is one or two people noticing, a few people discussing it, some debate, a little bit of publicity and more discussion, people checking and double-checking the differences, and eventually... Spawn #1 newsstands completely separated in the market from Spawn #1 direct editions.

We're on the "a few people discussing it, some debate" stage of the process for ASM #300, since my article isn't exactly "publicity"... it's just a blog.  This isn't rocket surgery - people are constantly hyping brand new books which have no significance in the industry three months after the ink dries and lemmings are throwing the money off the cliff like mad for the latest variant of a nothing book with the first appearance of whoops-they-never-became-a-big-deal.  Meanwhile, ASM #300 will probably be the #1 CGC graded book forever and there are only two flavors... but it's not a 50/50 split.  Not even close.

I can get $140 for a nostalgic book I bought last year

YES!

In all seriousness you are very astute 

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2 hours ago, valiantman said:

The numbers associated with the CGC graded ASM #300 books wasn't known until... this year.  There isn't 32 years of knowledge about how hard it is to get each version of the book.  There's less than 5 months of knowledge, spread only about as far as the people who read this forum.

http://www.slabdata.com/blog/2020/amazing-spider-man-300/

I made the notes for four years, compiled the numbers, and wrote the article in May.  I wouldn't expect the market to check with me before bidding on things that have not had any price differences in the past.  Over time (not 5 months), it will be more obvious to everyone what the differences are.

Maybe years, maybe decades, but 21 CGC 9.6 direct for every 1 CGC 9.6 newsstand isn't "the same" and people can "sour grapes" themselves all day that they don't care about the difference, but there will be a difference and anyone paying attention would be taking advantage of the current same-price situation in the correct direction of the future values which are inevitable.  Imagine being able to pick up Star Wars #1 35-cent cover for the same price as the 30-cent cover because "who cares?!?" was happening for several years after the books came out.

The market finally noticed Spawn #1 differences about 25 years after it was printed, but I was two years ahead and I bought a stack of CGC 9.8 Spawn #1 newsstand books when they were the same price at $90.  I can now cash newsstand CGC 9.8 Spawn #1 in for $500 each whenever I feel like it and the people with direct editions can get about $140.  This type of information is one or two people noticing, a few people discussing it, some debate, a little bit of publicity and more discussion, people checking and double-checking the differences, and eventually... Spawn #1 newsstands completely separated in the market from Spawn #1 direct editions.

We're on the "a few people discussing it, some debate" stage of the process for ASM #300, since my article isn't exactly "publicity"... it's just a blog.  This isn't rocket surgery - people are constantly hyping brand new books which have no significance in the industry three months after the ink dries and lemmings are throwing the money off the cliff like mad for the latest variant of a nothing book with the first appearance of whoops-they-never-became-a-big-deal.  Meanwhile, ASM #300 will probably be the #1 CGC graded book forever and there are only two flavors... but it's not a 50/50 split.  Not even close.

This was typed before I read your article. Pretty much repeats what you wrote about. 

 

I should have read your article and then the Newsstand link. First before typing this stuff lol.  The article and the link are really helpful!! 
Good stuff. 

 

I have a possible theory?
 

Honestly I don’t think there are as many higher-end Newsstand (any for that matter) copies because maybe when they were purchased off the racks it wasn’t the same thing for the buyer. What I mean is that i think a lot of the Newsstand copies were tossed out. Collectors saw a bar code on their comic while other were picking up the copy with the Spidey picture. Bar code or Spidey pic? That’s a simple answer and I’m sure it was just as simple back then. 
 

I know if it was me back in May 1998 when it was released I would have chased the Direct just because having a bar code on the other one would have been unsettling to say the least. Just my opinion. Even at that time and even up until now. I just think a collector would prefer the Direct, but would try and chase the Newsstand just to have both. 

 

Now as collectors, we are chasing the Newsstand because of the limited amount that remain today and that could be potential and room for big $$ later on

 

 

Thanks for the link. I will check it out!

Edited by Crushingame
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Hello to all..

Just to chime in, i remember buying this book at the LCS, and back then i personally preferred the Direct, not only because of the Spidey head in the area where the barcode would be, but because i was meticulous on how i bought my books. At the time I lived close to a local 'Optimo' news stand two blocks away, and i remember the comics on the racks would always be slouched over, and not in the best condition as a Direct copy would be in a comic shop. Now i never knew about the direct to news stand ratios, but honestly, back then who knew?

36 minutes ago, Crushingame said:

I know if it was me back in May 1998 when it was released I would have chased the Direct just because having a bar code on the other one would have been unsettling to say the least. Just my opinion. Even at that time and even up until now. I just think a collector would prefer the Direct, but would try and chase the Newsstand just to have both. 

 

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12 hours ago, valiantman said:

So, what I believe happened is specific to certain books.

Both direct editions and newsstands were printed at the same time - but - they were distributed differently.  Generally speaking, the newsstand books arrived in non-comic shops a couple weeks after the direct edition books arrived in comic shops.

Whenever a direct edition book was immediately popular, especially if it sold out in the first week or two, those direct edition collectors (and even retailers) found those extras on the newsstands and added them to their (mostly) direct edition collections.  Very few of the immediately popular direct editions would have had a lot of returns -and- they would have been well-protected in bags and boards in the hands of (more serious) collectors.

Thor #337, Amazing Spider-Man #252, and Amazing Spider-Man #361 are good examples of newsstand books that seem to be very common, even in high grade, because direct edition collectors got them, protected them, and kept them.

The same is not true of Amazing Spider-Man #300.  When direct edition shops ordered enough copies, the newsstand editions generally went to non-collectors (or at least, collectors who didn't bag and board everything).  The survival of high grade ASM #300 newsstand is significantly lower than high grade ASM #300 direct editions.  How much lower?  That's what we're watching.

 

My experience is that 300 is in exactly the same position as the others you called out. I could only find 1 asm300 and it was heavily spine bent at a 7-11, because any nice copy was sucked up after they sold out at comic shops. 298 was already $6 by the time 300 came out, it didn’t sneak by in any way.

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14 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

So, Valiantman, just out of curiosity, how many Asm 300 newsstands do you have?

 

12 hours ago, Chaos_in_Canada said:

Valiantman...you've been posting about UPC ASM300s since 2012?

How big is your pile?

Venom.png&key=e5304fb74f2e883da8d921f930

A whopping pile of 4.

CGC 9.2, CGC 9.6, CGC 9.6, CB@S 9.6

That's it.

It may be hard to believe, but I'm genuinely interested in the history and documentation of comic books, particularly those from my own lifetime, more than I'm interested in "getting rich quick".  

I'd probably be laughed out of the Modern Age forum for comments like that, but since we're in Copper Age, maybe it's safer to say so.  My "day job" is in information, and I'm fascinated by the "myths and rumors" that show up before solid data.  Conan #3 (1971) still says "low distribution in some areas" in the Overstreet Price Guide, but there's no reason that myth/rumor should still be alive.  We have data.  But, there it is, 49 years later.

CGC didn't bother to separate direct editions and newsstands for 20+ years (if they ever will), but we know that 1988 grocery stores and gas stations had newsstand books bent over and trashed on the shelves and we know 1988 comic shops were careful with direct editions, bagging and boarding was common, and collectors didn't throw away their direct edition books after rolling them up in their back pockets like kids on bikes/skateboards buying newsstands.

It's not about the two different barcode/spider-man boxes on the cover.  That happened on the first day they were printed.  It's about what happened after... the 32 years after that first day.  The books took different paths to CGC.  Some spent decades in bags and boards in a collection that was important to some kid, and others were trashed at a gas station before they were tossed out by the newsstand distributor, the kid who read it once or twice, or the parents cleaning up that pile of junk in the kid's room.

Imagine (nearly-identical) twins separated at birth - one is adopted from the hospital by Uncle Phil in Beverly Hills and the other goes to live on the urban streets of Philly.  If they both end up equally successful in a CGC slab, I think the newsstand Philly kid did more to get there and I'm more impressed by the journey.

Edited by valiantman
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11 hours ago, shiverbones said:
On 10/7/2020 at 8:58 AM, valiantman said:

So, what I believe happened is specific to certain books.

Both direct editions and newsstands were printed at the same time - but - they were distributed differently.  Generally speaking, the newsstand books arrived in non-comic shops a couple weeks after the direct edition books arrived in comic shops.

Whenever a direct edition book was immediately popular, especially if it sold out in the first week or two, those direct edition collectors (and even retailers) found those extras on the newsstands and added them to their (mostly) direct edition collections.  Very few of the immediately popular direct editions would have had a lot of returns -and- they would have been well-protected in bags and boards in the hands of (more serious) collectors.

Thor #337, Amazing Spider-Man #252, and Amazing Spider-Man #361 are good examples of newsstand books that seem to be very common, even in high grade, because direct edition collectors got them, protected them, and kept them.

The same is not true of Amazing Spider-Man #300.  When direct edition shops ordered enough copies, the newsstand editions generally went to non-collectors (or at least, collectors who didn't bag and board everything).  The survival of high grade ASM #300 newsstand is significantly lower than high grade ASM #300 direct editions.  How much lower?  That's what we're watching.

 

My experience is that 300 is in exactly the same position as the others you called out. I could only find 1 asm300 and it was heavily spine bent at a 7-11, because any nice copy was sucked up after they sold out at comic shops. 298 was already $6 by the time 300 came out, it didn’t sneak by in any way.

I think you're right when it comes to copies of ASM #300 at grades of 9.0 and below.  There do appear to be equal numbers for both newsstand and direct editions, but when it comes to the "high grades", there are 38 direct 9.8s for every 1 newsstand 9.8.  There are 21 direct 9.6s for every 1 newsstand 9.6, there are 5.5 direct 9.4s for every 1 direct 9.4.  Those numbers could change, because I think retailers/dealers are probably the heaviest submitters to CGC and they had direct editions by the dozens/hundreds in 1988.  No one had newsstands by the hundreds.  How would all the high grade newsstands get to CGC?  One at a time, most likely.  But they'd have to exist first.  20+ years of CGC grading, and 20,000+ copies graded, and it's almost 40-to-1 on CGC 9.8 ASM #300 for direct to newsstand.  That's probably not going to change significantly anytime soon.

We couldn't know the CGC numbers 32 years ago.  We couldn't even know the CGC numbers 22 years ago... they didn't exist.  We're beginning to get a clearer picture now... but we still don't know for sure.  Why would the prices be "settled" when the information is still being gathered?  The price of gold fluctuates daily, but gold arrived on Earth about 4 billion years ago.  (We could debate the likely first appearance of gold in the universe, but that's probably too much science for funny book chatting.)

The direction of the information on ASM #300 is clear.  If you prefer direct edition, you might want to buy newsstand now... then trade for direct editions later.  You could probably get 2 or 3 for the price of 1 later, since it's literally 38-to-1 in the slabs now.

Edited by valiantman
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11 hours ago, shiverbones said:

My experience is that 300 is in exactly the same position as the others you called out. I could only find 1 asm300 and it was heavily spine bent at a 7-11, because any nice copy was sucked up after they sold out at comic shops. 298 was already $6 by the time 300 came out, it didn’t sneak by in any way.

I don't recall it selling out but I do remember a guy who frequented my friends store who was talking about buying every copy he could find. This, when it came out just made me laugh. I hope he made out ok. He had a long box full of them.

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On 10/6/2020 at 2:09 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

😂😂😂

I’m not one of those guys to pursue newsstand vs direct, but your comment made me take a second look at the collection.

Seems like one of the 9.6’s is a newsstand, while everything else is direct.

Just ONE!?

IdolizedPolishedLarva-small.gif

 

:bigsmile:

 

 

j/k... that is an incredible set you got there!

 

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On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 9:52 AM, valiantman said:

 

A whopping pile of 4.

CGC 9.2, CGC 9.6, CGC 9.6, CB@S 9.6

That's it.

It may be hard to believe, but I'm genuinely interested in the history and documentation of comic books, particularly those from my own lifetime, more than I'm interested in "getting rich quick".  

I'd probably be laughed out of the Modern Age forum for comments like that, but since we're in Copper Age, maybe it's safer to say so.  My "day job" is in information, and I'm fascinated by the "myths and rumors" that show up before solid data.  Conan #3 (1971) still says "low distribution in some areas" in the Overstreet Price Guide, but there's no reason that myth/rumor should still be alive.  We have data.  But, there it is, 49 years later.

CGC didn't bother to separate direct editions and newsstands for 20+ years (if they ever will), but we know that 1988 grocery stores and gas stations had newsstand books bent over and trashed on the shelves and we know 1988 comic shops were careful with direct editions, bagging and boarding was common, and collectors didn't throw away their direct edition books after rolling them up in their back pockets like kids on bikes/skateboards buying newsstands.

It's not about the two different barcode/spider-man boxes on the cover.  That happened on the first day they were printed.  It's about what happened after... the 32 years after that first day.  The books took different paths to CGC.  Some spent decades in bags and boards in a collection that was important to some kid, and others were trashed at a gas station before they were tossed out by the newsstand distributor, the kid who read it once or twice, or the parents cleaning up that pile of junk in the kid's room.

Imagine (nearly-identical) twins separated at birth - one is adopted from the hospital by Uncle Phil in Beverly Hills and the other goes to live on the urban streets of Philly.  If they both end up equally successful in a CGC slab, I think the newsstand Philly kid did more to get there and I'm more impressed by the journey.

I thought you would have had far more copies.  Still, that's a particularly high grade set of newsstands, based on the data you've shared.

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