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THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB
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Started by HarveySwick,

14,480 posts in this topic

Glassman10

Glassman10

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Primetime said:

It’s not “wear”. Marvel chipping is a manufacturing defect caused by cheap paper and dull blades used to cut the paper. Most chipping was already present before the book was even on the newsstand. 

It certainly detract from the presentation of the book.  The question I always have is why do some books have it and some books not have it if it is all the fault of cheap paper and dull blades? If some books present themselves far better, and the grading of a book has a great deal to do with the cover presentation, both front and back, to the point where tanning of the back cover at the edges degrades a book value as much as it does, and staining is a death knell,  why is chipping tolerated at all when there are so many copies that simply don't have it.  Mine had a single chip but it did have wear in many other locations and it came back a 5.0.  I watched that chip come off after owning the book fifty years.  I simply can't see giving a 7.5 when there are so many other books out there from the same time period without the disease that have trouble pulling off a 5.5 or a 6.0. It seems to me to be more a commentary on what the book possibly could sell for but little to do with the quality of the presentation as collectible. 

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zhamlau

zhamlau

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Primetime said:

It’s not “wear”. Marvel chipping is a manufacturing defect caused by cheap paper and dull blades used to cut the paper. Most chipping was already present before the book was even on the newsstand. 

Does that mean that damage to a book may or may not count against the grade depending on the origin of the damage? if the damage occurs from a poor cut on day one or from a little kid pulling little tabs out of the edge, should it really matter? Shouldn't just the end state of the book be the only issue, regardless of the how and if there was some sort of neglect/intent to do damage?

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zhamlau

zhamlau

Posted
Posted

So in the last week we have seen a few AF 15 CGC sales of note on HA.

1.  2.5 OW with chipping = 13.1k

2. 3.5 CR/OW no Chips = 20.3k

3. 4.5 OW with Chipping = 26.3k

4. 5.0 OW/W UK no chipping = 28.7k

5. 5.5 OW no chipping = 45.4k

6. 6.0 OW/W no chipping = 59.2k

 

Seems like consistent pricing. Maybe a little cheap on the 5.5 but overall I think prices make sense compared to previous sales. The 5.5 might have been cheap due to a horrible dust shadow on the back, but overall the front was pretty clean and the PQ was average for the grade.

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Glassman10

Glassman10

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, zhamlau said:

So in the last week we have seen a few AF 15 CGC sales of note on HA.

1.  2.5 OW with chipping = 13.1k

2. 3.5 CR/OW no Chips = 20.3k

3. 4.5 OW with Chipping = 26.3k

4. 5.0 OW/W UK no chipping = 28.7k

5. 5.5 OW no chipping = 45.4k

6. 6.0 OW/W no chipping = 59.2k

 

Seems like consistent pricing. Maybe a little cheap on the 5.5 but overall I think prices make sense compared to previous sales. The 5.5 might have been cheap due to a horrible dust shadow on the back, but overall the front was pretty clean and the PQ was average for the grade.

I shudder to say, my 5.0 sold for 55K and had one chip which I watched pop off after fifty years (to my horror) . Some books seem to survive far better than others but apparently should get the same grade...

 

Would you really call that objective grading?

 

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peewee22

peewee22

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Glassman10 said:

I shudder to say, my 5.0 sold for 55K and had one chip which I watched pop off after fifty years (to my horror) . Some books seem to survive far better than others but apparently should get the same grade...

 

:whatthe:

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

Would you really call that objective grading?

There is more factored into each grade than just chipping.

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Glassman10

Glassman10

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, VintageComics said:

There is more factored into each grade than just chipping.

I am well aware of that. I just think it's strange as well as ugly and it varies dramatically as a defect from book to book. It's not like every copy has it as an issue. .  Does a big stain bring a book down more than a small one? Do big spine ticks degrade value as opposed to small ones? How rounded to corners have to get? CGC does the grading but far too frequently it fails to make sense in my opinion. Since they won't publish the criteria for grading, this conversation is like the song that never ends. 

And it isn't even a rare book. 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Glassman10 said:

I am well aware of that. I just think it's strange as well as ugly and it varies dramatically as a defect from book to book. It's not like every copy has it as an issue. .  Does a big stain bring a book down more than a small one? Do big spine ticks degrade value as opposed to small ones? How rounded to corners have to get? CGC does the grading but far too frequently it fails to make sense in my opinion. Since they won't publish the criteria for grading, this conversation is like the song that never ends. 

And it isn't even a rare book. 

For the most part, their grading makes sense to me. But then I've been studying it for 15 years. I suppose something like Astrophysics wouldn't make sense to me.

How rare the book is irrelevant to the grade.

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Glassman10

Glassman10

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, VintageComics said:

For the most part, their grading makes sense to me. But then I've been studying it for 15 years. I suppose something like Astrophysics wouldn't make sense to me.

How rare the book is irrelevant to the grade.

I understand rarity isn't a grading issue. I also understand that on an expensive book, the higher the value based on grade, the more it costs to grade it which seems pretty arbitrary. So when defects drag it down, other things go down too. Always good to not call a defect a defect even when it is a clear distraction. My opinion of course. 

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Glassman10

Glassman10

Posted
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

I’ve alwasy said chipping should be fully deducted like any visually unappealing flaw. 

Its why I’ve always tried to only buy non Mc copies when possible 

I don't think you can go wrong.  I always thought .12 cents was a major investment. I had to walk to the bus depot 1.5 miles.  I had five bucks. King of the world. 

Edited by Glassman10
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comicjel

comicjel

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

I’ve alwasy said chipping should be fully deducted like any visually unappealing flaw. 

Its why I’ve always tried to only buy non Mc copies when possible 

I guess I started this Marvel chipping discussion - sorry!!! (especially since this is an AF15 string)

For what it's worth, I always felt there is a little mystery about how the marvel chipping actually occurred - clearly there were dull blades involved, but the very strange way that the tears happened (more like cracks in the paper than tears), and it is also strange that sometimes the "cracked" paper stays in place even though the tear goes edge to edge - I figure that in addition to dull blades that it might also have something to do with the way the ink dried after or before the cut was made.  I also wonder if there was an abnormal amount of pressure being applied to the edge of some covers but not others somehow.

Maybe this has been addressed in the past (or under a different subject), but I would be curious if someone with old-time printer knowledge could explain why the cracks happened the way they do.

I certainly try to avoid Marvel chipped books when possible, but I knew I could only afford a 7.5 at the time and my flaws of choice were Marvel chips and dust shadow.  I also did not really care so much about the CGC grade (although that clearly affected the price) - I kind of liked the idea that the main flaw happened during manufacturing instead of handling.  Every copy of the 35 cent Amazing Spider-man #171 has a nick in the spine about four inches down - I would never want to buy a 1970's book with a nick in the spine, but now that I know that it happened in manufacturing and they all have it, the nick does not bother me as much - that is kind of how I feel about Marvel chips, albeit I know that not all copies were inflicted!

 

  

 

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