THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[bronze johnny]

51 minutes ago, Glassman10 said:

I don't object to the forum but it's inarguable that the primary concern is monetary value. This forum is running by the blessing of house rules and the house profits on the accuracy of the grading among other things. It strikes me that the auction houses ought to have some complicity in the process if they're marketing collectibles. There's an uncomfortable level of fraud in these transactions yet it seems to be fairly accepted that the fraud will always be a part of that.  When one is talking about cash sales in the neighborhood of six figures or more yet the fraud can persist, I would not be inclined to support that system. There must be a better way in that the auctions and the graders can come to  a meeting of the minds over how to police their own business. In horses, they tattoo the inner lips of the beasts for ID.  I would think that some mutually agreed on form of ID ( some sort of watermark perhaps?) could be placed in a book that all concerned agreed did not lower the value for at least the upper end ones.

This will eventually be corrected when someone gets ripped off and files a complaint with law enforcement. The schemers and fraudsters always get caught. Only a matter of time- already happened in the world of sports cards. 

[Glassman10]

11 minutes ago, DTM700 said:

This is an interesting and well thought out statement.

If comics somehow were to have an ID marker that could not be tampered with, it would minimize the room for error on the census going forward (e.g. re-submissions, signatures added, etc.). It would also mean that all grading companies would need to have access to each others findings and notes for reference. But what would they do if a discrepancy was found? Collaborate among each other?

Curious, how do other graded collectibles work? Coins, cards, stamps? All graded by one sole company or do those other markets have the same issues to consider re: potential fraud.

In finance, the escrow company is the holding agency. Somewhere, a company could form that did not hold a financial interest in the actual grading fees. It collates the results and ultimately watermarks ( or however) the book in question. It registers that book with the watermark.  While I think it could take a long time to arrive at a large representation, something needs to start. The observation about the trimmed hulk is just another example. The hobby needs the capacity to weed out fraud and currently just dances around it.  I think the point about it winding up in the hands of law enforcement eventually is likely. This method would do nicely with books that had been stolen as well. Cracking the case is no longer the issue, the actual ID of the book is registered with the escrow group. Grading companies would benefit the graders as well as the owners. Being registered inside a slab would be a plus.I recognize the proposal has issues but the concept is in my mind worth pursuit. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

5 hours ago, DST said:

Pardon the interruption regarding the trimmed copy and cancelled auction.

Really excited to display my new club credentials  

I present my new keeper copy 

Man that is Sweet  can't say it enough  

[JohnH19]

6 hours ago, DST said:

Pardon the interruption regarding the trimmed copy and cancelled auction.

Really excited to display my new club credentials  

I present my new keeper copy 

Beautiful!!! Congrats!

[VintageComics]

6 hours ago, DTM700 said:

If comics somehow were to have an ID marker that could not be tampered with, it would minimize the room for error on the census going forward (e.g. re-submissions, signatures added, etc.). It would also mean that all grading companies would need to have access to each others findings and notes for reference. But what would they do if a discrepancy was found? Collaborate among each other?

Curious, how do other graded collectibles work? Coins, cards, stamps? All graded by one sole company or do those other markets have the same issues to consider re: potential fraud.

It's been discussed here for years. Nobody wants their collectibles marked with foreign markings.

Edited March 3, 2019 by VintageComics

[peewee22]

13 hours ago, VintageComics said:

It's been discussed here for years. Nobody wants their collectibles marked with foreign markings.

I agree with Roy. There's enough markings on books already. A company will now mark your book "the better 8.0...". Weird I think. By the time you read the label, you're exhausted so I'll just view the book later.

[UncleBEN]

1 minute ago, peewee22 said:

I agree with Roy. There's enough markings on books already. A company will now mark your book "the better 8.0...". Weird I think. By the time you read the label, you're exhausted so I'll just view the book later.

Well a CVA sticker seems to worth its weight in gold on the right book with current record breaking sales. I think the others are referring to security, and I do agree. Personally I think it would be beneficial  FOR a grading company  watermark the micro-chamber paper to ensure that the book in the holder is the SAME book in the slab. This would help reduce any slab swapping as it would prove to be much more difficult to swap a book out of an inner well.

[peewee22]

2 minutes ago, UncleBEN said:

Well a CVA sticker seems to worth its weight in gold on the right book with current record breaking sales. I think the others are referring to security, and I do agree. Personally I think it would be beneficial  FOR a grading company  watermark the micro-chamber paper to ensure that the book in the holder is the SAME book in the slab. This would help reduce any slab swapping as it would prove to be much more difficult to swap a book out of an inner well.

Don't know if I would release an expensive book for another sticker. CGC is enough for me. I can pretty much tell if an 8.0 is better than another 8.0, etc. Just another dollar sticker IMO but it does enhance value.

[chrisco37]

On 3/2/2019 at 2:27 PM, DST said:

Pardon the interruption regarding the trimmed copy and cancelled auction.

Really excited to display my new club credentials  

I present my new keeper copy 

Wonderful copy.  The red really pops.  Congrats.

[chrisco37]

17 hours ago, VintageComics said:

It's been discussed here for years. Nobody wants their collectibles marked with foreign markings.

I used to be firmly in the camp of “no”.  The money has gotten so incredible over the past 10 years or so, that it’s making me re-evaluate my position.  

Premiums are paid to have “creator-X” scribble their name, in sharpie!, on a vintage collectible.  An invisible (to the naked eye) ear-mark doesn’t seem so damaging anymore. 

[Glassman10]

On 3/2/2019 at 11:22 PM, VintageComics said:

It's been discussed here for years. Nobody wants their collectibles marked with foreign markings.

I think it would be really interesting to mark a book with some form of watermark, or fluorescent activated marking, then submit it to CGC and see if the  graders ever notice the marking at all. You could even send it in twice and the second time around, tell them where the marking is and see what they say.  It's not like someone wants to scrawl in Crayon.  In fact, it could become a service generated by the graders themselves although I think an independent party would be far better.  Change is inevitably a scary thing but embracing security in what seems to me to be a fraud  riddled endeavor  would give all of you security. 

[VintageComics]

20 minutes ago, Glassman10 said:

On 3/2/2019 at 11:22 PM, VintageComics said:

It's been discussed here for years. Nobody wants their collectibles marked with foreign markings.

I think it would be really interesting to mark a book with some form of watermark, or fluorescent activated marking, then submit it to CGC and see if the  graders ever notice the marking at all. You could even send it in twice and the second time around, tell them where the marking is and see what they say.  It's not like someone wants to scrawl in Crayon.  In fact, it could become a service generated by the graders themselves although I think an independent party would be far better.  Change is inevitably a scary thing but embracing security in what seems to me to be a fraud  riddled endeavor  would give all of you security. 

Would anyone here want' a tracking locator placed on themselves permanently?

This entire conversation is too Orwellian for me.

[Glassman10]

Just now, VintageComics said:

Would anyone here want' a tracking locator placed on themselves permanently?

This entire conversation is too Orwellian for me.

That seems extreme to me as a response. Comic books are not living creatures.  Let me try again.

If you owned an AF 15 graded 7.5 and it was stolen from you and broken out of its slab, Tell me how you could proof positive identify it as your book in court? I don't see how that can be done currently with any degree of confidence. I doubt that saying "mine has this stain" is going to quite provide what would be needed. There's lots of fish in the sea and admittedly not all books are even in slabs. One of the recurring discussions surrounds how many copies of AF15 are in the wild. It's not a rare book but it sure is expensive .  Those very books would defy conventional identification principles.  It becomes a case of "you lost it".

When I owned my AF15, I had it for 50 years and it was never slabbed. When I found out what it was worth, I was floored. I didn't even know about grading.  I always viewed it as a generic run of the mill Spiderman. Then it became a slabbed 5.0 Who knows how many of those exist? If it had been stolen, I certainly would have been SOL unless it had some invisible ID.  It's food for thought. I read about fraud and theft here constantly. 

[Hulksdaddy1]

8 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Would anyone here want' a tracking locator placed on themselves permanently?

This entire conversation is too Orwellian for me.

I think they're called "smart phones" 

[Professor K]

I just noticed that a restored CGC 8.0 trimmed AF 15 supposedly sold on ebay  for 100K in December.

I don't believe that one bit. Will that jack up the book value?  I mean the book value of the comic.

Edited March 6, 2019 by kc2112

[DST]

Home for good after being reholdered in its crystal clear new case 

[mosconi]

1 hour ago, DST said:

Home for good after being reholdered in its crystal clear new case 

Congrats Dave on such a beautiful and desirable copy!!  No chipping, White pages, and such bold vibrant colors, doesn't get much better than that!  Case looks great too

[Drummy]

Super pure color on that copy -- best 5.0 on the planet, I reckon...

[Dark Knight]

Tough book to find with white pages.  Gratz! 

[peewee22]

The grays and white streaks on that book are ultra super clean.