THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[Chaos_in_Canada]

15 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Or, it was a 9.2 book sitting in a 9.0 holder originally.

Nice try! 

[Ltpink2002]

[lou_fine]

On 6/14/2019 at 5:23 PM, VintageComics said:

It was my rationale to explain why pressing wasn't done as much in the past and is much more prolific today.

Wow, it must be my reading comprehension or I need to go back and re-read your posts more carefully as I got the distinct impression from your posts that standalone pressing was a commonplace practice back in the days before CGC was ever opened for buisness.  

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, Ltpink2002 said:

Now, that's what I would call a perfect matching set of bookends that would look super nice in my bookcase.  

[VintageComics]

9 hours ago, lou_fine said:

On 6/14/2019 at 8:23 PM, VintageComics said:

It was my rationale to explain why pressing wasn't done as much in the past and is much more prolific today.

Wow, it must be my reading comprehension or I need to go back and re-read your posts more carefully as I got the distinct impression from your posts that standalone pressing was a commonplace practice back in the days before CGC was ever opened for buisness.  

Go back and reread the posts, then.

You were talking in extremes while I was trying to point out the realities.

You were making it sound like books weren't pressed at all before CGC, which they were but 'commonplace' is a relative thing. Sure, not EVERYONE was doing it but people were doing (or attempting to do it) to varying degrees.

I was stating that

1) it wasn't a secret that was withheld by CGC as you maintained

2) that CGC didn't have an obligation to share their standards 20 years ago any more than they do today (and they still don't share them)

3) that Overstreet's standards change over time on many things, not just on pressing but on many things as the hobby evolves

2) that the reason more books are pressed today is because it is more financially feasible than it was 3 years ago, so it was a natural progression as books became more valuable to have more books pressed

 

 

[namisgr]

2 hours ago, VintageComics said:

2) that the reason more books are pressed today is because it is more financially feasible than it was 3 years ago, so it was a natural progression as books became more valuable to have more books pressed

While it may be more financially feasible, I'd say the main reason many, many more books are pressed today than before is the explosion of people doing pressing.

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by namisgr

[VintageComics]

3 minutes ago, namisgr said:

While it may be more financially feasible, I'd say the main reason many, many more books are pressed today than before is the explosion of people doing pressing.

 

And why is there an explosion of people doing pressing?

Certainly not because everyone became altruistic.

It's because the large increase in values since the 90's now makes it much more feasible to press books that you normally wouldn't have even given a second through to trying to have pressed.

People are pressing books now that used to be considered bird cage liner books.

[namisgr]

If the same people pressing comics in 2001 were the same doing the manipulating today, there would be no enormous increase in the number of pressed books and the rate at which they're being pressed.  Period.  But there's so much of it going on now that wasn't back in the day and from so many doing the work that it's become virtually impossible to build a collection of Silver Age comics in high grade or Bronze Age books in ultra high grade that haven't been manipulated.

And because dealers don't like to divulge details on who's pressing their comics, what kinds of novel methods they're using, and what kinds of results they're producing, the Boards discussions only scratch the surface on the pressing cottage industry, and more than a few of the folks working on the most valuable books in the hobby and the techniques they're using are not widely known.

Edited June 19, 2019 by namisgr

[Keep_It_Clunky]

Never posted my long ago restored copy.

[NoMan]

On 6/18/2019 at 6:18 PM, Ltpink2002 said:

that's some hardcore OG sh*t right there. 

[Gotham Kid]

@Spiderturtle has/had 4 or 5 AF15 7.0s, thought for a time he was trying to corner the market for that grade

Edited June 20, 2019 by Gotham Kid

[peewee22]

18 hours ago, Keep_It_Clunky said:

Never posted my long ago restored copy.

very cool book. it looks much better than the grade assigned. 

[peewee22]

Just now, Gotham Kid said:

spiderturtle has/had 4 or 5 AF15 7.0s, thought for a time he was trying to corner the market for that grade

Yeah that dude is a show off. 

[Gotham Kid]

Just now, peewee22 said:

1 minute ago, Gotham Kid said:

spiderturtle has/had 4 or 5 AF15 7.0s, thought for a time he was trying to corner the market for that grade

Yeah that dude is a show off. 

indeed, he shows off some serious funnybooks

Edited June 20, 2019 by Gotham Kid

[Keep_It_Clunky]

3 hours ago, peewee22 said:

very cool book. it looks much better than the grade assigned. 

Agreed and thanks. It looks better in hand. Not sure how cgc always assigns grades on restored books, but my sense is the more extensive the resto, the less chance of a higher grade, regardless of the quality of the work. 

I've subbed a 4-5 pro restored books over the years (this being one) and the grades have all fallen solely in the 5.5-7.5 world.  Not complaining, just an observation.

[VintageComics]

On 6/19/2019 at 11:46 AM, namisgr said:

If the same people pressing comics in 2001 were the same doing the manipulating today, there would be no enormous increase in the number of pressed books and the rate at which they're being pressed.  Period.

I'm unsure of the point you are trying to make.

Those that dislike pressing try to say that there wasn't pressing before CGC but it's been proven that there was pressing before CGC. We known for sure that at least two major dealers had books pressed pre CGC - Marnin and Greg Bulls, which doesn't tell us how many books were being pressed - simply that they WERE being pressed well before CGC 'made it acceptable'

We also know that there weren't as many books being pressed because it wasn't financially viable to press everything because they were worth much less.

If you want to blame any one thing on the increase of pressing, blame it on comic values shooting through the roof. As comics (all comics) became more valuable, it became more financially viable to press more books.

Necessity is the mother of invention and there is no way that people were not going to find a way to flatten pressable defects considering collectors have been trying to do it since their childhood with encyclopedias and other methods.

 

[namisgr]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

Those that dislike pressing try to say that there wasn't pressing before CGC but it's been proven that there was pressing before CGC.

Who says that?  Nobody.

My point?  I responded to a post of yours, in which you claimed the increase in valuations was responsible for the state of pressing today.  I don't agree with that being the sole or even the primary reason.  Even more significant is how many hundreds of in-the-home pressing operations have come online since the early days of CGC.  My second point was to emphasize how this creation of a cottage industry of pressing essentially eliminates the option of collecting runs of high grade Silver or ultra high grade Bronze comics that haven't been manipulated.

Finally, at least some of those that make a large part of their living from press/resubmit try to justify the practice taking over the high grade SA and BA segment of the hobby by making it seem that in the days before CGC pressing was far more common than it actually was.  The truth is there's hundreds upon hundreds of pressed books in circulation and in collections today for each individual comic of 20 years ago that was pressed as something other than the finishing step after solvent cleaning.

Edited June 20, 2019 by namisgr

[VintageComics]

2 minutes ago, namisgr said:

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

Those that dislike pressing try to say that there wasn't pressing before CGC but it's been proven that there was pressing before CGC.

Who says that?  Nobody.

This was a strong narrative before Bedrock posted and shared how some dealers were pressing books in the 90s and Lou_Fine was implying it.

3 minutes ago, namisgr said:

My point?  I responded to a post of yours, in which you claimed the increase in valuations was responsible for the state of pressing today.  I don't agree with that being the sole or even the primary reason.  Even more significant is how many hundreds of in-the-home pressing operations have come online since the early days of CGC. 

Literally nobody would be pressing books if it wasn't worthwhile.

The 'cottage industry' is a product of normal business supply / demand economics. There is more demand so they filled the supply. Simple as that.

[lou_fine]

On 6/14/2019 at 1:44 PM, Chaos_in_Canada said:

On 6/14/2019 at 9:36 AM, lou_fine said:

Anybody else here think the purchaser made an astute and very timely purchase here at $598K while the AF 15 market is a tad soft and this purchase will look like a steal once the heat of the market cycles back to the Spidey books?  

No...the guy got ripped off! 

CGC 9.0 oww (# 1449688001) re-graded to CGC 9.2 oww (# 1223893001) 

Well, in this case then, it's quite obvious that the seller had made a very astute and timely purchase.  

Just by any chance, would it happen to be this copy here which had sold in the big CC auction back in March of 2017 since the image is no longer available:

https://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=701480

I remember this copy selling for what was then a record price for a CGC 9.0 graded copy for $395K.  So, not a bad little profit of just over $200K before auction fees that he was able to "squeeze" out here.  

Of course, everybody soon forgot all about this sale as all of the talk was about the CGC 5.0 graded copy that sold for $57K in the exact same auction.  This was then followed by all of the talk about the sale of Glassman's 5.0 graded copy for somewhere in the low to mid $50K's.  

 

[Gotham Kid]

5 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

since the image is no longer available

that is very uncharacteristic of CC archives ... 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Gotham Kid