THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[Spiderphill]

9 hours ago, showcase22gr1959 said:

It will be interesting to see what the final hammer price this copy can fetch.

Curious to see if it breaks 20k. It's a clean 4.0. 

[G.A.tor]

Bmoretoys just sold a 4.5 close to his 24800 asking

[Spiderturtle]

47 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

Bmoretoys just sold a 4.5 close to his 24800 asking

Maybe 4.5s will stabilize at $24-25k

[Spiderturtle]

1 minute ago, Spiderturtle said:

Maybe 4.5s will stabilize at $24-25k

About 1.5 years ago i considered hording as many 4.5s as possible as flipping candidates.  That plan failed when i couldn't help myself; i instead went 7.0 route.  But back then 4.5s were about $16k or so and i knew that was a good buy price considering that 5.0s were in the mid to high 20k

[Moondog]

On 3/30/2017 at 9:11 AM, Jaydogrules said:

So to paraphrase, a 5.0 copy with nice front cover eye appeal and "c/ow pages" on the label obliterated GPA on the open market.  

-J.

Yes, but I don't believe it would have sold for more if it had white pages.  The collectors who wanted this book wanted it for the front cover.

[lou_fine]

36 minutes ago, Moondog said:

On 3/30/2017 at 7:11 AM, Jaydogrules said:

So to paraphrase, a 5.0 copy with nice front cover eye appeal and "c/ow pages" on the label obliterated GPA on the open market.  

-J.

Yes, but I don't believe it would have sold for more if it had white pages.  The collectors who wanted this book wanted it for the front cover.

That is Jaydog's point exactly since he believes if your copy had white pages instead of CR/OW, it would have sold for LESS money than the $57K you managed to get, not for more money.  

Better PQ serves only to decrease the value of a book from Jaydog's point of view. 

[Jaydogrules]

8 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

That is Jaydog's point exactly since he believes if your copy had white pages instead of CR/OW, it would have sold for LESS money than the $57K you managed to get, not for more money.  

Better PQ serves only to decrease the value of a book from Jaydog's point of view. 

No, actually he has it right.  The alleged "PQ" on the label had absolutely nothing to do with what that book sold for.  It was all based on the "eye appeal".

And that's where I see things going in this slab-happy environment.  In fact, that's where I posit it already is now, more so than not.   

-J.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[lou_fine]

27 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

No, actually he has it right.  The alleged "PQ" on the label had absolutely nothing to do with what that book sold for.  It was all based on the "eye appeal".

And that's where I see things going in this slab-happy environment.  In fact, that's where I posit it already is now, more so than not.   

-J.

With this particular copy of AF 15, I believe you are 100% correct. 

I was just a bit surprised that the bidders didn't bother to pay more attention to the "lack of eye appeal" with respect to the stains on the back cover of this copy. 

[Spiderturtle]

20 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

With this particular copy of AF 15, I believe you are 100% correct. 

I was just a bit surprised that the bidders didn't bother to pay more attention to the "lack of eye appeal" with respect to the stains on the back cover of this copy. 

Frame the book and cover up the back cover

[ProcessedMeatMan]

On 3/31/2017 at 10:29 PM, Spiderturtle said:

A nice looking 4.0

http://m.ebay.com/itm/352018317061

It looks oddly faded... or is that just the photo quality?

[G.A.tor]

11 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

No, actually he has it right.  The alleged "PQ" on the label had absolutely nothing to do with what that book sold for.  It was all based on the "eye appeal".

And that's where I see things going in this slab-happy environment.  In fact, that's where I posit it already is now, more so than not.   

-J.

Eye appeal has been the number one factor for me and many since the beginning of collecting. Doubt anyone is arguing against that. That typically is a major component that drives price ( though if that 5.0 copy had brittle as the page quality designation I do believe it would've sold for less,  so even then you cannot say definitively that the price was entirely based on Eye appeal, but i believe  that absolutely was the driving force in that copy's realized price ...as most would agree).

The ONLY point I make (that seems to be lost or ignored)  is that "if"  you had two books with similar/comparable  Eye appeal and structure  (so we've eliminated all those differentials from the equation), side by side for sale/auction, AND available at the SAME time, in the SAME venue/sales environment, THEN the differential would be the page quality , AND I "posit"  that the majority of folks would be (actually already are and do) willing to pay a premium (however slight) for the better preserved copy (typically designated by  pq on a cgc label) BUT...

...The books do not even have to be Graded by cgc...they can be raw and subject to the buyers physical inspection ( to even the average collector it's fairly easy to differentiate varying page quality by sight and feel ,  especially when you have two samples side-by-side ... and it's relatively easy to show the novice collector the differences with an actual inspection )

 That is why I say GPA data is not really relevant to my discussion relating to gold/silver sales, because so few of these examples actually exist outside of the more modern era comics ( Bronze Age or newer...then the data generally does support pq differential because many 9.6/9,8 do have the same/similar eye appeal)

How anyone can believe otherwise defies my experience, but if you still don't acknowledge, well...what can I say 

Edited April 2, 2017 by G.A.tor
Correcting Siri

[roulette44]

Relevance of eye appeal is not new, books have always sold with a high amount of volatility to a single price, based on several factors.   Eye appeal is definitely one.    Presence of chipping (aside from the eye appeal piece of that), format of sale (auction vs. fixed price) and, of course, page quality.    

Even with books that trade alot more (like AF15) i think we too often look at the GPA last sale as a proxy for market value changes, which really isn't accurate.      that's because the sale price is oscillating around the hypothetical market value price, based on these confounders.     That said, I hope the buyers of the two Connect AF15s are collectors who just want to enjoy great books,  because if they were purchased for upgrade,  they'll likely end up large losers.    

 

 

 

[lou_fine]

5 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

12 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

No, actually he has it right.  The alleged "PQ" on the label had absolutely nothing to do with what that book sold for.  It was all based on the "eye appeal".

And that's where I see things going in this slab-happy environment.  In fact, that's where I posit it already is now, more so than not.   

-J.

Eye appeal has been the number one factor for me and many since the beginning of collecting. Doubt anyone is arguing against that. That typically is a major component that drives price ( though if that 5.0 copy had brittle as the page quality designation I do believe it would've sold for less,  so even then you cannot say definitively that the price was entirely based on Eye appeal, but i believe  that absolutely was the driving force in that copy's realized price ...as most would agree).

That's because you are always ahead of the curve and most of the general populace in the marketplace follows along behind by a few steps. 

Personally, I believe eye appeal has always been a factor when buying a book, it's just that it is a lot more noticeable now with the large amounts of monies being paid for these books nowadays. 

Where is CVA when we need them? 

 

[zhamlau]

What I don't get on many of these lower PQ record sales is this...what is the end goal of the buys? I mean, when you pay 57k for a book that at most can be upgraded to a 5.5 but still is below average PQ....what are you hoping for? It's real and it happened and it's gonna have to have an effect on price so it cant just be boxed and tossed away as a fact. I just don't get it, I'm hoping to see other prices of similar material come up to gauge this new trend more thoroughly.

[namisgr]

Sometimes at auction, a couple of bidders will lose their minds.  Other times at auction, money is being laundered.  Bottom line - not all comic buyers have the same level of wealth, sophistication, and collecting goals.

Edited April 2, 2017 by namisgr

[namisgr]

18 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

No, actually he has it right.  The alleged "PQ" numerical grade on the label had absolutely nothing to do with what that book sold for.  It was all based on the "eye appeal" and "potential".

-J.

A different view.

 

When a few years ago I sold a Strange Tales #110 in cgc 9.0 ow/w, it fetched more than 3 times the previous GPA record.  Why?  For its potential much more so than its eye appeal or page quality.  My Hulk #1, on the other hand, went for over GPA record because it was free of chipping and had white pages.  Sometimes, the main factor in a sale price is potential, sometimes eye appeal, sometimes page quality, and sometimes combinations of these.

 

As for the importance of eye appeal to the serious collector over time, I think it used to be much more highly valued than it is now.  Many national dealers did not even bother putting grades on their books, but just a sticker price.  In the days before internet commerce, one could look books over and at shows compare them side by side.  Whether you put more value in a book being free of creases or stress lines, having white cover stock with bright inks and gloss, snowy interior pages, covers inside and out free of tan lines and halos, excellent quality of production, or other features, you could decide for yourself.  Once comics started becoming entombed and sold over the internet, numerical grades took on far more importance, and the spread of rampant pressing made 'potential grade' a major factor.

Edited April 2, 2017 by namisgr

[Spyderfan]

And we won't ever go into pressing as "restoration", will we?!  

[Moondog]

2 hours ago, namisgr said:

A different view.

 

When a few years ago I sold a Strange Tales #110 in cgc 9.0 ow/w, it fetched more than 3 times the previous GPA record.  Why?  For its potential much more so than its eye appeal or page quality.  My Hulk #1, on the other hand, went for over GPA record because it was free of chipping and had white pages.  Sometimes, the main factor in a sale price is potential, sometimes eye appeal, sometimes page quality, and sometimes combinations of these.

 

As for the importance of eye appeal to the serious collector over time, I think it used to be much more highly valued than it is now.  Many national dealers did not even bother putting grades on their books, but just a sticker price.  In the days before internet commerce, one could look books over and at shows compare them side by side.  Whether you put more value in a book being free of creases or stress lines, having white cover stock with bright inks and gloss, snowy interior pages, covers inside and out free of tan lines and halos, excellent quality of production, or other features, you could decide for yourself.  Once comics started becoming entombed and sold over the internet, numerical grades took on far more importance, and the spread of rampant pressing made 'potential grade' a major factor.

I don't see how the $57K copy can be upgraded.  It was pressed by CCS.  Unless the back cover can be bleached in some new manner that can remove the tide lines, and some new paper added to the small abrasion, all in a manner that's undetectable, this book is maxed out.  Now, could it be cracked and resubbed and get a 6.0 because on that day the graders looked at the beautiful FC and said to themselves, "9.0 FC+ 3.0 BC = 6.0.  Yes, that's possible.

[namisgr]

Like I said above, at auction sometimes a couple of bidders lose their minds.  

[G.A.tor]

10 minutes ago, Moondog said:

I don't see how the $57K copy can be upgraded.  It was pressed by CCS.  Unless the back cover can be bleached in some new manner that can remove the tide lines, and some new paper added to the small abrasion, all in a manner that's undetectable, this book is maxed out.  Now, could it be cracked and resubbed and get a 6.0 because on that day the graders looked at the beautiful FC and said to themselves, "9.0 FC+ 3.0 BC = 6.0.  Yes, that's possible.

 Given the fact they do group finalization's now and this copy is pretty remarkable and distinguishable,  I doubt the grade will change even upon a resubmission