THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[VintageComics]

2 minutes ago, Glassman10 said:

I think the role of GPA should be as a reporter: to ferret out the facts.  In the market, It's pretty important to me to know the sales of VISA in real time. 

Correct.

People want real time sales data in this age of impatience. Everyone want to know everything, all at once.

That's never going to happen.

And why do they want to know everything at once? Because nobody wants to leave a dollar on the table. Everyone's a dealer today.

 

[zhamlau]

But they  reported later sales from CC I believe. Not having the MAJOR BIG DEAL 57k sale listed on their site when they have it seems put in later sales is infact, to me ,head scratching. Like, it was a huge public deal, why the 6 month delay in reporting it? We all saw it, they saw it, why not list it?

 

Have any sales in the last 6 months on CC shown up on GPA? If so, why so clearly avoid the biggest single market driving sale for the number one most desired book in the market?

Edited September 14, 2017 by zhamlau
reads better this way.

[Glassman10]

8 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

Correct.

People want real time sales data in this age of impatience. Everyone want to know everything, all at once.

That's never going to happen.

And why do they want to know everything at once? Because nobody wants to leave a dollar on the table. Everyone's a dealer today.

 

I think the notion of dollars on the table strips away the "Hobby" notion at this level. We're not talking ASM 129 .  It's not a hobby when there are five to seven  figures on the table. I just think that needs clarification. So, when I leave the happy hobby , I look to international professionals. I'm not selling mine because I'm bored with AF 15, I'm selling to enrich someone else's life who simply needs the standard international currency, Cash. . 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Glassman10
clarity

[alexgross.com]

55 minutes ago, SECollector said:

OK, I can rephrase: I am not getting the service I thought I would get when I signed up. I thought I would get a really updated tracking of public sales at least for the big books. Its the best in its category (and the only one probably?), but the quality of the service provided can be much higher (i.e. including books from the other company as well). And allow me to disagree slightly and just hint that it actually might be their job to follow around the big selling venues like CL and CC and track down and register the sales. Its kind of why they are paid for. In my book if one single public sale is not published and taken into account then there is space for market manipulation. 

I mean, if we had the option tomorrow of a new service that actively tracks and register all public sales for CGC and the other company, who would you give your money to each month?

Anyway we are out of topic, and I don't have anything really against GPA, but I absolutely believe that there is space for improvement. Cheers.

amen! it really is time that someone opened a competing service. as you say, most if not all of us would gladly subscribe. it's hardly an impossible task. it simply means adding a few more sources than they currently use, and being more timely in updating information. i bet some of the longtime members here even have the capital to pursue such a start-up if they were so inclined. either way, GPA are so far off right now that i cannot be the only one contemplating dumping my subscription. 

[VintageComics]

57 minutes ago, www.alexgross.com said:

amen! it really is time that someone opened a competing service. as you say, most if not all of us would gladly subscribe. it's hardly an impossible task. it simply means adding a few more sources than they currently use, and being more timely in updating information. i bet some of the longtime members here even have the capital to pursue such a start-up if they were so inclined. either way, GPA are so far off right now that i cannot be the only one contemplating dumping my subscription. 

There is a competitor. They're called GoCollect.

But a company can only fill their database with information that a dealer is willing to submit to them. And they can't take data if someone doesn't want them to have it.

GPA collects from Heritage, eBay and a number of other sources that dealers submit through going back almost 16 years IIRC. GoCollect only collects from eBay as far as I know and only going back a few years. I know they don't collect from Heritage.

I don't understand what you mean by GPA being 'so far off'. All they do is collect information from submitting dealers. If a dealer doesn't submit data and you want it submitted then your beef should be with the dealer. Not with GPA.

 

[blazingbob]

Yeah - 

 

[namisgr]

2 hours ago, zhamlau said:

But they  reported later sales from CC I believe. Not having the MAJOR BIG DEAL 57k sale listed on their site when they have it seems put in later sales is infact, to me ,head scratching. Like, it was a huge public deal, why the 6 month delay in reporting it? We all saw it, they saw it, why not list it?

 

Have any sales in the last 6 months on CC shown up on GPA? If so, why so clearly avoid the biggest single market driving sale for the number one most desired book in the market?

Maybe ComicConnect waited for the comic to be paid for in full.

[paul747]

3 hours ago, VintageComics said:

There is a competitor. They're called GoCollect.

But a company can only fill their database with information that a dealer is willing to submit to them. And they can't take data if someone doesn't want them to have it.

GPA collects from Heritage, eBay and a number of other sources that dealers submit through going back almost 16 years IIRC. GoCollect only collects from eBay as far as I know and only going back a few years. I know they don't collect from Heritage.

I don't understand what you mean by GPA being 'so far off'. All they do is collect information from submitting dealers. If a dealer doesn't submit data and you want it submitted then your beef should be with the dealer. Not with GPA.

 

GPA really is not worth it at this point for many bigger books.  I would like to get a hold of Bobs list.  They really cant be relevant when they are not recording one of the biggest sites for auctions.

Edited September 15, 2017 by paul747

[jabats]

6 hours ago, zhamlau said:

But they  reported later sales from CC I believe. Not having the MAJOR BIG DEAL 57k sale listed on their site when they have it seems put in later sales is infact, to me ,head scratching. Like, it was a huge public deal, why the 6 month delay in reporting it? We all saw it, they saw it, why not list it?

 

Have any sales in the last 6 months on CC shown up on GPA? If so, why so clearly avoid the biggest single market driving sale for the number one most desired book in the market?

I've recently bought books from Metro & CC that showed up in GPA within a week or two.

[VintageComics]

8 hours ago, paul747 said:

GPA really is not worth it at this point for many bigger books. 

They record all the same books that they've always recorded. The only difference NOW is that the market is moving faster and results are taking longer to reach GPA and people are getting frustrated because the information is traveling faster than they can keep track of it themselves.

Meaning they leave some money on the table. So there is a backlash against GPA because it's not helping people make as much money as they used to.

Also, the market is moving faster so some dealers are not submitting information because that information can be proprietary now.

8 hours ago, paul747 said:

They really cant be relevant when they are not recording one of the biggest sites for auctions.

Again, it's the dealers not submitting or selectively reporting data that make it so.

It would be like being angry at your accountant for not having a complete accounting of your finances...except you didn't submit all the data to him.

As a back story, there have been conversations over the years about dealers who selectively submitted data. It used to be considered a no-no but in every conversation, it used to be the submitter's fault. I've noticed a change recently and now people are blaming GPA for it.

The times, they are a changin'

[SECollector]

59 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

The times, they are a changin'

They surely do . I heard my wife (she is a radiologist) the other day discussing how in the near future, software will be able to do more or less all of the radiological assessments without human involvement, probably in a much accurate and objective way. So I bet that the technology that would enable the automatic -not manual, not selectively submitted by auction houses or dealers, totally automatic- tracking and registration of on-line public sales through auctions is available. If auction houses have a problem with that, well, its their problem. The data is there, publicly available to everyone so nothing prohibits someone gathering it together and making it easier served.  Its not like they have the copyrights for a selling number. So its just a matter of time before someone invests in such a tracking system.

I am with you of course, that research will always be a part of the game and that some numbers will anyway never surface. Books are sold privately, in cons, in garage sales or wherever. There is no way tracking down all of them.

[VintageComics]

8 minutes ago, SECollector said:

 So I bet that the technology that would enable the automatic -not manual, not selectively submitted by auction houses or dealers, totally automatic- tracking and registration of on-line public sales through auctions is available. If auction houses have a problem with that, well, its their problem. The data is there, publicly available to everyone so nothing prohibits someone gathering it together and making it easier served.  Its not like they have the copyrights for a selling number. So its just a matter of time before someone invests in such a tracking system.

That is actually up to debate and it depends on international internet laws.

GPA at one point wanted to follow the and publish the sales of an auction house and the auction hose sent a notice stating that the final sales prices were proprietary so GPA stopped tracking them.

I'm not sure on how it all works. Even though the internet has been around for decades now, the legalities are still being debated.

So just scraping sales data may or may not be legal, and if an auction house considers it proprietary you can likely look forward to a legal battle over it.

eBay just recently has shortened how far back you can search sales results. Those results used to be searchable for months after a sale. Now it's two weeks.

Information is the new Gold.

Edited September 15, 2017 by VintageComics

[Glassman10]

I keep hearing that GPA simply records what sites choose to submit ? Then they collate that information and sell it.  It's useful on most books but on the books with value fluidity it simply does not reflect value at all. Neither does Overstreet . I just have to stop there and see what kind of effort it actually takes to go to Metropolis, Highgrade,SoCal, Dave and Adam's, whichever and count up the AF15's and note what prices those sites are asking. There just aren't really that many copies in play at any given time. It's not like we're talking 400 books. It seems to me that if GPA really wanted to supply the information, they could just get on the phone and call any of those dealers. Now, the dealer might just tell them to stuff it and they don't disclose their sales period. But maybe they don't do that.

It seems to me that a rising tide raises all boats. If dealer "X" sells a 6.0 for 95K as an example, all dealers would be most interested in seeing that publicized since it reflects the value of their own holdings. Owners of  the book would, I imagine like seeing that as well. In my case, if I was seeing 5.0's suddenly pulling 80K, I would want my selling price to take that into consideration. The only people who would not want to see that are buyers trying to make lowball purchases and then to sell at the previously cited price of 80K.

The core value in any business is customer service. It should not be any different at GPA. I see a lot of people here that aren't really happy about the service at least as it affects the AF15.  I also see some who just say "It can't happen". I don't see that degree of difficulty if I look at the task. 

[VintageComics]

3 minutes ago, Glassman10 said:

 It's useful on most books but on the books with value fluidity it simply does not reflect value at all.

'Value fluidity', which is really just volatility, is a recent development in the market. Maybe the last 2-3 years. Before that you didn't have this volatility.

4 minutes ago, Glassman10 said:

I just have to stop there and see what kind of effort it actually takes to go to Metropolis, Highgrade,SoCal, Dave and Adam's, whichever and count up the AF15's and note what prices those sites are asking. There just aren't really that many copies in play at any given time. It's not like we're talking 400 books. It seems to me that if GPA really wanted to supply the information, they could just get on the phone and call any of those dealers. Now, the dealer might just tell them to stuff it and they don't disclose their sales period. But maybe they don't do that.

I know I'm speaking for GPA but I'm just speaking from my perspective as to how I understand GPA works.

GPA is not a site to collect sales data for hot books. It's a site that collects data for as many CGC graded books as they can.

It's not a site to collect data for Amazing Fantasy #15's.

They've collected sales for 2.4 million books and they do it using software.  Can you imagine what it would take to collect 2.4 million sales manually? You wouldn't be paying $100 a month for your subscription.

Can you imagine combing through a database and trying to coerce dealers to release sales data over phone calls? I can, but then the cost would be reflected in the price and you'd have people complain about the cost.

It's a mass produced, mass appeal product.

9 minutes ago, Glassman10 said:

I see a lot of people here that aren't really happy about the service at least as it affects the AF15.  I also see some who just say "It can't happen". I don't see that degree of difficulty if I look at the task. 

Of all the years I've been on here, I can literally count on my hands the number of people that have complained about GPA's service and about 30% of them are in this thread.

The recent complaints are a recent product of a newly volatile market combined with people who want dealer level information at their fingertips without putting in any effort. Sorry, for $100 a month that's not going to happen.

If you want that sort of information, it's labor intensive (which is not GPA's service model) and very expensive (which GPA is not).

And I wouldn't expect dealers to really contribute openly  to the general public either.

Cue Bob Storms' rant about whether he's here to make money for other people or not.

 

[chrisco37]

57 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

GPA is not a site to collect sales data for hot books. It's a site that collects data for as many CGC graded books as they can.

Right.   And to your point (re: cost), imagine how much the service would cost if they called all said dealers for their prices?   How many books does Bob sell in a month?  Metro?  Roy?  etc... How many people would GPA have to hire to gather all that data?   And who on the other side of the phone would be willing to sit thru that  phone call on a monthly basis? 

GPA:  Hi, Bob!  It's gpa!  Ready for our monthly 2 hour phone call so we can input all your sales for the month?

Bob:  I've been waiting for this call!  It's my favorite chore each month! 

[VintageComics]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

I just want to clarify, in case anyone thought otherwise my laugh was meant to be light hearted and add some levity to the thread. It wasn't meant as a poke to anyone.

[VintageComics]

5 minutes ago, chrisco37 said:

And to your point (re: cost), imagine how much the service would cost

I don't know if it would be economically feasible.

You'd either need to decrease the amount of books you cover (thereby decreasing subscription greatly) or increase manpower to an nth degree to get all the work done on a timely basis (thereby increasing cost greatly).

It's likely why nobody has done it this way.

[blazingbob]

Assuming that dealers have databases that can generate extracts of sales which I am guessing many don't they would not be calling me.

Also some of you assume that some of the biggest dealers are tracking their sales.  You would be surprised at how many don't.   

It would take me less then 5 mins to put together a daily/weekly or monthly extract of CGC sales.

But as Roy stated in a earlier post I am NOT in business to make you money (You is not you Chris).

I am not sure if people see that dealers need to buy copies of books that they are selling.  If you are raising the sale price of the book you are also raising your cost.  And with more and more "weekend warriors" needing to squeeze every dollar out of a book that job gets harder every day.  Add on top the expense of finding those books and I ask myself why am I helping my competitors price their inventory on my hard work.   Because I'm a nice guy?  This is business and I run it like a business.

And some of you think that "But bob,  if you report your sales you can get more on the next copy".  Not when the GPA buyer mentality is that I don't want to set a GPA record,  I want a GPA discount.  I call that the Slow bowl pricing flush.   Watch the GPA price slowly swirl lower.  Eventually they want you to buy at Retail and sell at Wholesale.  How do I know this?  Years of conversations with buyers using 12 month average,  90 day average,  last sale.  Anything to get the "Look what I just got this for Convention stroll".  

All this comes from the years of the Dealer/collector battle.  You see it all the time.  Did I get over on him?  Did he get over on me?  What,  I got screwed?  Yeah man,  I'm going to sell this on ebay for $500 and I paid $25,  high fives for everyone.   

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by blazingbob

[zhamlau]

12 hours ago, jabats said:

I've recently bought books from Metro & CC that showed up in GPA within a week or two.

so some  random middle of the road CC sales from a few weeks ago are already showing up...but game changing historic sale of the biggest book in the hobby (ALSO by CC) from 6 months still cant find its way to GPA? And the book is already in Bob's hands so the sale it seems went through. I just dont get it, what the hold up/thought is. It makes me feel uneasy im not gonna lie.

[namisgr]

11 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

so some  random middle of the road CC sales from a few weeks ago are already showing up...but game changing historic sale of the biggest book in the hobby (ALSO by CC) from 6 months still cant find its way to GPA? And the book is already in Bob's hands so the sale it seems went through. I just dont get it, what the hold up/thought is. It makes me feel uneasy im not gonna lie.

I repeat: consider the possibility that the AF15 in question was purchased using a time payment.

One of the last things anyone wants is for GPA data to become corrupted with 'sales' data for sales that never closed.

Edited September 15, 2017 by namisgr