• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB
39 39

14,479 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I looking at 10-15 years from now. :foryou:

Also, I think Yankee fans have a new hero in Aaron Judge that will take the main focus off of the Mick.

This was the first year I ever saw a Yankee player like Judge surpass Mantle in popularity.

The torch as been passed to Judge the new face of baseball.

ce8f7a8c022e87c19dd134dc47ac349d.jpg

Stats wise Mantle is not even in the top 10. Hank Aaron is way beyond Mantle as are a bunch of other players like Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker (over 3600 hits and hit well over .300), Pete Rose, Derek Jeter, Honus Wagner and so on. Mantle hit 536 HR and did not even get close to 3000 hits and his career average is below .300. At best the guy is somewhere in the top 50 players of all-time.....and I say at best. He is no Babe Ruth that is for sure!!

His cards are way overvalued compared to some other players. I mean give me a break Hank Aaron had 755 HR and almost 3800 hits and averaged over .300 the guy was a machine. Racism played a lot into Mantle been seen as a king but the truth are in his stats. Even Albert Pujols has better stats than Mantle. Pujols will get to 3000 hits and has more than 600 HR. Yes Mantle won championships but that is a team effort.

Edited by SC22
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, SC22 said:

Stats wise Mantle is not even in the top 10. Hank Aaron is way beyond Mantle as are a bunch of other players like Ty Cobb, Pete Rose and so on. Mantle hit 536 HR and did not even get close to 3000 hits and his career average is below .300. At best the guy is somewhere in the top 50 players of all-time.....and I say at best. He is no Babe Ruth that is for sure!!

The stats never tell the whole story about Mantle.

Mantle played on one leg since tearing up his knee in his rookie year. 

Making statements comparing Aaron to Mantle is unfair. In fact, it's silly to compare Mantle to any great ball player from that era. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, bronze johnny said:

The stats never tell the whole story about Mantle.

Mantle played on one leg since tearing up his knee in his rookie year. 

Making statements comparing Aaron to Mantle is unfair. In fact, it's silly to compare Mantle to any great ball player from that era. 

 

No it is not Mantle fans are scared to see Mantle not been some kind of baseball God. Roberto Clemente was better than Mantle. Mantle played injured I bet you a lot of other good players did as well and they don't get the justice they deserve. Mantle was a poster boy for MLB and a Yankee. In 30 years the younger generation will rely on career stats more and more and Mantle is no where near the top of any of them. Once the Mantle generation passes away unlike Babe Ruth he will fade away over time. On the other hand Babe Ruth is baseball and that will never change. Mantle was a good player nothing more. The only reason some see it as more is because they attach emotions to him that's it.

Edited by SC22
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Iceman399 said:

Everyone knows Michael Jordan was the best baseball player of all time. End of discussion 

In the long run Jordan will be remembered but Mantle will slowly fade away into the abyss of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, SC22 said:

Results are always weaker it seems this time of year and that will last till the spring or so.

Don't agree with this. Sure, it may be applicable to a 2-3K book but someone that can spend close to 70K on a comic book is indifferent to buying it in March, August or December.

Edited by Gotham Kid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, SC22 said:

No it is not Mantle fans are scared to see Mantle not been some kind of baseball God. Roberto Clemente was better than Mantle. Mantle played injured I bet you a lot of other good players did as well and they don't get the justice they deserve. Mantle was a poster boy for MLB and a Yankee. In 30 years the younger generation will rely on career stats more and more and Mantle is no where near the top of any of them. Once the Mantle generation passes away unlike Babe Ruth he will fade away over time. On the other hand Babe Ruth is baseball and that will never change. Mantle was a good player nothing more. The only reason some see it as more is because they attach emotions to him that's it.

Fyi - I'm not a Mantle fan.  

 

 

Edited by bronze johnny
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, peewee22 said:

Wow now we're a Mantle thread. Can't wait until we cross over into timepieces.

Timepieces are boring. Who of fine gentlemen in here is going after this one?

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Paintings/leonardo-da-vinci-salvator-mundi-6110563-details.aspx?lid=1&from=relatedlot&intobjectid=6110563

I would, but I am worried that Da Vincis are in a bubble.

:baiting:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, SECollector said:

Guessing 100 Mil ?

Edited by Gotham Kid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Gotham Kid said:

Guessing tens of millions ?

Thats a piece that museums and billionaires will brutally fight for. There is no estimation and it will be exciting to follow that, but it would surprise me if it wouldn't end in the hundreds of millions kind of range.

The history behind it makes a really interesting reading: http://www.christies.com/features/Salvator-Mundi-timeline-8644-3.aspx?sc_lang=en&cid=EM_EMLcontent04144A10B_1&cid=DM135587&bid=110875404

Now back to talking $ about AF15 and Mantles :devil:.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SECollector said:

Thats a piece that museums and billionaires will brutally fight for. There is no estimation and it will be exciting to follow that, but it would surprise me if it wouldn't end in the hundreds of millions kind of range.

The history behind it makes a really interesting reading: http://www.christies.com/features/Salvator-Mundi-timeline-8644-3.aspx?sc_lang=en&cid=EM_EMLcontent04144A10B_1&cid=DM135587&bid=110875404

Now back to talking $ about AF15 and Mantles :devil:.

yeah, can we stop talking about baseball cards please? i know that on the surface, they seem like similar collectible items. but they are nothing alike. i'm not going to go on a long schpiel about how they're different. suffice it to say that in 1978 i loved both comics and baseball cards. fast forward ten, twenty, thirty years, and i still loved one of those things, and couldn't give a *$#& about the other. there are so many obvious reasons why they're not comparable at all. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

That's why I see Mickey Mantle rookie cards being a bad bet long-term. If Elvis is starting to fade than Mantle cards will be in deep doo-doo in the future.

At least with Elvis you can hear his songs still played on You-Tube and Spotify. Who other than baby boomers are going to have nostalgia memories for Mickey Mantle?

Which brings us back to AF#15 and Spider-Man being a great future bet as Spider-Man keeps reinventing himself with new movies and videogames introducing him to new audiences, unlike Mickey Mantle.

Was looking at Amazon best selling categories this week and these made the top of the lists.

Spider-Man: Homecoming [Blu-ray]

127511brp.jpg

No Mickey Mantle stuff at the top of the charts.

My bet is AF#15  will continue to be desired as a top collectible, while others fade.

You make a very good point that fictional characters can be reborn and reinvented, unlike real historical figures.  That's a very important insight into why Spider-Man is probably a better bet than any actor, musician, or athlete.

That said ... as great a player as Honus Wagner was, outside of true baseball fans and historians almost nobody under the age of 40 or 50 has even heard of him.  And yet, his famous card is still the holy grail for card collectors.  Mantle's 1952 Topps card has a similar place of importance in terms of the history of the hobby, and Mantle far exceeds Honus Wagner in terms of name recognition.  So as long as there remains interest in baseball, I imagine there will be interest in that card.  Baseball fans are, after all, arguably more obsessed with the history of their sport than any other fans.  I think that card will hold up.

Elvis is the guy I would worry about.  As much of a pop icon as he was for his time, he didn't age well in life and his legend hasn't aged well in death.  He had become a caricature within his own lifetime, and by now that caricature is all that's left.  Elvis' accomplishments as a performer really don't hold up to any real scrutiny from today's vantage point -- he does not compare favorably to any number of musicians who actually wrote their own songs or could actually play an instrument, and he isn't helped by the fact that he had African-American contemporaries like Chuck Berry whose talent dwarfed his, yet who never received anywhere near the recognition they deserved.  Other than "Can't Help Falling in Love," I can't think of a single Elvis song that is still played enough that young people of today would even recognize the tune.  To take a single example, Frank Sinatra, who is a generation older and whose core fan base has all but disappeared from the earth, holds up far better as a legendary singer than Elvis, and you can actually sit through some of his movies too.  Forget about real creative geniuses like the Beatles, whose catalog is (a) their own work in all aspects of creation and production and (b) so varied and brilliant as to be evergreen and self-perpetuating.  Every generation will find something in the Beatles' work that they can relate to.  Elvis is just ... dated.

No offense intended to Elvis lovers, but I just don't see future generations viewing him as much more than an answer to a trivia question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I looking at 10-15 years from now. :foryou:

Also, I think Yankee fans have a new hero in Aaron Judge that will take the main focus off of the Mick.

This was the first year I ever saw a Yankee player like Judge surpass Mantle in popularity.

The torch as been passed to Judge the new face of baseball.

ce8f7a8c022e87c19dd134dc47ac349d.jpg

One year and the crowd goes nuts.  Bam Bam Muellins and Kevin Maas.  We shall see. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Elvis is the guy I would worry about.  As much of a pop icon as he was for his time, he didn't age well in life and his legend hasn't aged well in death.  He had become a caricature within his own lifetime, and by now that caricature is all that's left.  Elvis' accomplishments as a performer really don't hold up to any real scrutiny from today's vantage point -- he does not compare favorably to any number of musicians who actually wrote their own songs or could actually play an instrument, and he isn't helped by the fact that he had African-American contemporaries like Chuck Berry whose talent dwarfed his, yet who never received anywhere near the recognition they deserved.  Other than "Can't Help Falling in Love," I can't think of a single Elvis song that is still played enough that young people of today would even recognize the tune.  To take a single example, Frank Sinatra, who is a generation older and whose core fan base has all but disappeared from the earth, holds up far better as a legendary singer than Elvis, and you can actually sit through some of his movies too.  Forget about real creative geniuses like the Beatles, whose catalog is (a) their own work in all aspects of creation and production and (b) so varied and brilliant as to be evergreen and self-perpetuating.  Every generation will find something in the Beatles' work that they can relate to.  Elvis is just ... dated.

No offense intended to Elvis lovers, but I just don't see future generations viewing him as much more than an answer to a trivia question.

I'm not even going to bother commenting on any of this garbage. The next several pages would be evidence to the contrary but let's keep this thread restricted to AF15 talk.

I'll leave your statement with just a video. Show me how well Frank could play the guitar and/or piano. Neither.

The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

Edited by Gotham Kid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

You make a very good point that fictional characters can be reborn and reinvented, unlike real historical figures.  That's a very important insight into why Spider-Man is probably a better bet than any actor, musician, or athlete.

That said ... as great a player as Honus Wagner was, outside of true baseball fans and historians almost nobody under the age of 40 or 50 has even heard of him.  And yet, his famous card is still the holy grail for card collectors.  Mantle's 1952 Topps card has a similar place of importance in terms of the history of the hobby, and Mantle far exceeds Honus Wagner in terms of name recognition.  So as long as there remains interest in baseball, I imagine there will be interest in that card.  Baseball fans are, after all, arguably more obsessed with the history of their sport than any other fans.  I think that card will hold up.

Elvis is the guy I would worry about.  As much of a pop icon as he was for his time, he didn't age well in life and his legend hasn't aged well in death.  He had become a caricature within his own lifetime, and by now that caricature is all that's left.  Elvis' accomplishments as a performer really don't hold up to any real scrutiny from today's vantage point -- he does not compare favorably to any number of musicians who actually wrote their own songs or could actually play an instrument, and he isn't helped by the fact that he had African-American contemporaries like Chuck Berry whose talent dwarfed his, yet who never received anywhere near the recognition they deserved.  Other than "Can't Help Falling in Love," I can't think of a single Elvis song that is still played enough that young people of today would even recognize the tune.  To take a single example, Frank Sinatra, who is a generation older and whose core fan base has all but disappeared from the earth, holds up far better as a legendary singer than Elvis, and you can actually sit through some of his movies too.  Forget about real creative geniuses like the Beatles, whose catalog is (a) their own work in all aspects of creation and production and (b) so varied and brilliant as to be evergreen and self-perpetuating.  Every generation will find something in the Beatles' work that they can relate to.  Elvis is just ... dated.

No offense intended to Elvis lovers, but I just don't see future generations viewing him as much more than an answer to a trivia question.

Have you heard of the following books?  

"Hamilton" by Chernow

"Lincoln in the Bardo" by Saunders

Check out the historical fiction books coming out all the time that reinvent real historical figures. Every generation has its own take on historical figures.

Do you have any idea how sought out and how much original Elvis singles in the sleeves (45s) go for?   

Elvis is a 20th Century cultural icon. Check out just how incredible a performer Elvis was - just look at and compare Carl Perkins' version of Blue Suede Shoes with the performance done by Elvis (see below - one example of just how incredible Elvis was!). You're underestimating just how far above Elvis was in comparison to his contemporaries and what he did for Rock n' Roll. 

More than trivial(thumbsu

 

Elvis is the greatest figure in the most revolutionary period of the music of the 20th Century. Rock 'n Roll = Elvis. Neither will be forgotten. 

Edited by bronze johnny
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I won't even start on Sinatra's rendition of "My Way" versus Elvis' "My Way". No contest. Elvis blows Frank not only out of the water but onto another continent.

Sinatra was a better actor than Elvis, no question there. Elvis starred in 31 movies, but wasn't taken seriously as an actor. He knew it, everyone knew it.

Although every now and then when I'm channel surfing I'll stumble across an Elvis movie, can't even recall the last time same happened for a Sinatra flick. This is in Lisbon or Paris (here they dub the movie :eek: ). Likely in the US his movies are played more often. Btw, a couple of my Sinatra favs are "the man with the golden arm" and "Ocean's Eleven".

Let's get back to talk AF15 John. I'm trying REAL, real hard from refraining to answer to the Elvis post. images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQI-HShk5wxDxnAq1Wwn3O Cause if I start, I'll maybe finish on Thursday. lol

Edited by Gotham Kid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, scooter99 said:

One year and the crowd goes nuts.  Bam Bam Muellins and Kevin Maas.  We shall see. 

Maas and Bam Bam never were the homerun king like Aaron Judge. At first you could compare them not anymore.

Judge at 6 foot 7 is kind of becoming a superhero to younger fans. First baseball player in years to have this kind of appeal. One of a generation baseball player that doesn't come around often, and being in NY really, really does help to add to the mythos. Wait until the Yankees win a World Series than his rookie cards will be even more desired.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

I won't even start on Sinatra's rendition of"My Way" versus Elvis' "My Way"

Let's get back to talk AF15 John. I'm trying REAL, real hard from refraining to answer to the Elvis post. images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQI-HShk5wxDxnAq1Wwn3O Cause if I start, I'll maybe finish on Thursday. lol

It is good though to compare Spider-Man to Elvis, Mickey Mantle and other famous icons. As it shows why AF#15 is a great bet for now and in the future compared to others. In other words if you are going to spend good coin on a collectible than AF#15 seems as good a bet as any collectible that came out these last 60 years. Can anyone name me any other collectible(NOT JUST COMIC BOOK) that came out after 1950 that is desirable as AF#15?

 

My bet is Spider-Man and Batman a decade from now will both still be hot because new generations of fans are discovering them by the millions every year thru movies, animation, action figures and video games. In other words Batman and Spider-Man stuff constantly stays modern and dynamic, while a lot of the other real life icons fade do to them getting old, and dying along with their fanbases.

Spider-Man is like Sherlock Holmes and ages well, unlike Mickey Mantle and countless other icons of the 20th Century.

 

 

 

 

Edited by ComicConnoisseur
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

As it shows why AF#15 is a great bet for now and in the future compared to others. In other words if you are going to spend good coin on a collectible than AF#15 seems as good a bet as any collectible that came out these last 60 years. Can anyone name me any other collectible(NOT JUST COMIC BOOK) that came out after 1950 that is desirable as AF#15?

 

My bet is Spider-Man and Batman a decade from now will both still be hot because new generations of fans are discoving them by the millions every year thru movies, animation, action figures and video games. In other words Batman and Spider-Man stuff constantly stays modern and dynamic, while a lot of the other real life icons fade do to them getting old, and dying along with their fanbases.

Spider-Man is like Sherlock Holmes and ages well, unlike Mickey Mantle and countless other icons of the 20th Century.

 

Agree.

While I can't speak for Asia, I can for Europe. We have offices all over Europe.

I consider myself a learned man and know who Mickey Mantle was. Have never followed baseball, have no interest in it nor in his accomplishments but I know who he was to the world of baseball. If I ask any of my colleagues (spanning several countries) about Spiderman or Elvis, the answer will be positive. Mickey Mantle ? They won't have a clue.

Edited by Gotham Kid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
39 39