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THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB
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14,479 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, Marwood & I said:
16 hours ago, paul747 said:

The pence copy is bright and sharp. 

Isn't it! And no chipping either @paul747. And yet, despite coming off of the same presses at the same time, and being considerably rarer, it commands barely half the price of the cents copy. Someone got themselves a bargain there....

I'd be curious to know if there are more chipped Pence copies or less chipped Pence copies out there as they may have been off the presses before the US copies.

Did we ever settle that?

 

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5 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I'd be curious to know if there are more chipped Pence copies or less chipped Pence copies out there as they may have been off the presses before the US copies.

Did we ever settle that?

 

I made the same point in my pence thread earlier today Roy. I'm not aware of any conclusive proof, but if the pence copies were run off first they would in theory be less likely to have chipping. Only in theory though.

 

Edited by Marwood & I
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22 hours ago, BIZZARRO said:

Hi everyone, 

quick question, anyone know of any af-15 thefts recently? I saw an ad with one for sale and it looked a little low. Wanna check and see if any scammers  are out there b4 i check it out

thanks

joe bizzarro

I went and got a serial number off the picture, I ran it through the verify certification tool online and it does not pop up. Can someone please double check the cert number, thinking it’s just a fake.

Can it be a knockoff? Cert number 0165853001

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2 hours ago, BIZZARRO said:

I went and got a serial number off the picture, I ran it through the verify certification tool online and it does not pop up. Can someone please double check the cert number, thinking it’s just a fake.

Can it be a knockoff? Cert number 0165853001

WHAT IS THE GRADE?

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3 hours ago, BIZZARRO said:

I went and got a serial number off the picture, I ran it through the verify certification tool online and it does not pop up. Can someone please double check the cert number, thinking it’s just a fake.

Can it be a knockoff? Cert number 0165853001

This sometimes happens on Sunday night when CGC is probably updating their Census database. All books come back as not found.

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6 hours ago, Marwood & I said:

I made the same point in my pence thread earlier today Roy. I'm not aware of any conclusive proof, but if the pence copies were run off first they would in theory be less likely to have chipping. Only in theory though.

 

Don't think it really works like that.  To follow your argument, that early in a particular press run the blades of the trimmer are sharpest leads to the idea that they must change the blades after every print run.  That just doesn't ring true.  Maybe changed once a week depending on the pressloads that week.  So the books with the chipping were "luck of the draw" casualties... like driving a shared car the day the tires blow out.

and why would the smaller print run go first?  the multiple covers would have been printed separately from the newsprint interiors, ganged 4-up together on larger sheets.  Then rough trimmed and added to the machines that assembled the covers to the insides. I'd think they would load the machines with comics parts (covers and interiors)  by territory making the bundles of finished comics all come out together, easier for shipping.

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2 hours ago, Aman619 said:

Don't think it really works like that.  To follow your argument, that early in a particular press run the blades of the trimmer are sharpest leads to the idea that they must change the blades after every print run.  That just doesn't ring true.  Maybe changed once a week depending on the pressloads that week.  So the books with the chipping were "luck of the draw" casualties... like driving a shared car the day the tires blow out.

We won't know definitively until someone who has worked with a printing press answers.

That's why I'm asking for @DiceX to chime in as he has.

If they were printing 100,000's of each issue it is possible that blades got changed or sharpened during a print run. But the books with chipping are almost no doubt done by dull blades, which caused the paper to tear rather than to cut cleanly.

2 hours ago, Aman619 said:

and why would the smaller print run go first?  the multiple covers would have been printed separately from the newsprint interiors, ganged 4-up together on larger sheets.  Then rough trimmed and added to the machines that assembled the covers to the insides. I'd think they would load the machines with comics parts (covers and interiors)  by territory making the bundles of finished comics all come out together, easier for shipping.

It's been my (albeit limited) experience that the further from NYC the books had to travel to, the better the print quality on the books.

I picked up a very nice early Marvel SA collection a few years ago from Hawaii. All the books were purchased from the newsstand in Hawaii. They were early JIM and FF books, issues that were RIFE with printing defects from poorly centered covers, to Marvel chipping, to off center staples.

What was very interesting to me is that nearly every issue had perfectly centered staples on the apex of the spine, perfectly centered covers and little to no Marvel chipping. Even issues that are known for having these specific defects (and believe me, there are certain issues that are nearly impossible to find without them) were clean and had terrific production quality.

My theory is that the books that left the presses 1st would be shipped to the furthest regions (in these cases Hawaii and the UK) and the earliest books would have the best production quality because all of the tolerances were tight. As you crank out 100's of 1000's of books, those production values change as the machines move ever so slightly out of tolerance, blades get duller, etc.

It's just a theory but so far I have nothing to contradict it.

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The Curators were near perfect specimens too, so I'm thinking the quality of a collection of books has more to do with the collector than the location they were shipped to. I bought book soff the stands randomly back then, and some were perfectly centered and others weren't.

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5 hours ago, Philreal said:

ACCORDING TO GPA IS WAS SOLD IN JULY OF THIS YEAR: 

Jul-30-2017 $18,300 Cert# 0165853001

HOPEFULLY THEY ARE ASKING MORE THAN THAT FOR IT?

AND BACK IN 2010:

May-09-2010 $4,800 Cert# 0165853001

That’s the point, the persons asking price was much less. Makes me think it’s stolen pictures and might be a set up. He asked for my number and he texted me with his number so I’m a bit torn??? How should i proceed?

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9 hours ago, Aman619 said:

Don't think it really works like that.  To follow your argument, that early in a particular press run the blades of the trimmer are sharpest leads to the idea that they must change the blades after every print run.  That just doesn't ring true.  Maybe changed once a week depending on the pressloads that week.  So the books with the chipping were "luck of the draw" casualties... like driving a shared car the day the tires blow out.

and why would the smaller print run go first?  the multiple covers would have been printed separately from the newsprint interiors, ganged 4-up together on larger sheets.  Then rough trimmed and added to the machines that assembled the covers to the insides. I'd think they would load the machines with comics parts (covers and interiors)  by territory making the bundles of finished comics all come out together, easier for shipping.

Agree, that's why I indicated 'in theory' as we can't know as we weren't there. Blades were probably changed whenever the chipping started to get out of hand, and the guy on quality control (if there was one) spotted it. Or, they may have run a slick operation and changed the blades at the start of a new day - not every day, just at the start of a new one if the blades were known to last a certain time before blunting. I dabble in pence books as you know and I find them less likely to have chipping.

6 hours ago, VintageComics said:

We won't know definitively until someone who has worked with a printing press answers.

That's why I'm asking for @DiceX to chime in as he has.

If they were printing 100,000's of each issue it is possible that blades got changed or sharpened during a print run. But the books with chipping are almost no doubt done by dull blades, which caused the paper to tear rather than to cut cleanly.

It's been my (albeit limited) experience that the further from NYC the books had to travel to, the better the print quality on the books.

I picked up a very nice early Marvel SA collection a few years ago from Hawaii. All the books were purchased from the newsstand in Hawaii. They were early JIM and FF books, issues that were RIFE with printing defects from poorly centered covers, to Marvel chipping, to off center staples.

What was very interesting to me is that nearly every issue had perfectly centered staples on the apex of the spine, perfectly centered covers and little to no Marvel chipping. Even issues that are known for having these specific defects (and believe me, there are certain issues that are nearly impossible to find without them) were clean and had terrific production quality.

My theory is that the books that left the presses 1st would be shipped to the furthest regions (in these cases Hawaii and the UK) and the earliest books would have the best production quality because all of the tolerances were tight. As you crank out 100's of 1000's of books, those production values change as the machines move ever so slightly out of tolerance, blades get duller, etc.

It's just a theory but so far I have nothing to contradict it.

I don't think DiceX has logged in since February Roy, alas, so he may not respond. I have a shockingly bad memory, often can't remember what I posted last week, but I think I may have invited him to respond before. 

I like your theory regarding producing the overseas destination books first, as they have to be shipped, and I agree that pence books seem to have less chipped copies.

I enjoy the speculation, but that's all it is until someone who knows the history joins the fray. Let's hope dice is that person, but it find it so odd that we know so little about these things. 

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7 hours ago, BIZZARRO said:

That’s the point, the persons asking price was much less. Makes me think it’s stolen pictures and might be a set up. He asked for my number and he texted me with his number so I’m a bit torn??? How should i proceed?

If it’s too good to be true, it probably is

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On 11/19/2017 at 4:22 AM, Marwood & I said:

Isn't it! And no chipping either @paul747. And yet, despite coming off of the same presses at the same time, and being considerably rarer, it commands barely half the price of the cents copy. Someone got themselves a bargain there....

Pence copies look weird to many (most?) American collectors.  The nostalgia is less because those books were never available on the newsstands here, and most of the back issues in circulation here are cents copies, so, even if you weren't around to buy this off the newsstands in 1962, whenever you saw this book on the wall at an LCS or at a show growing up, it was always a cents copy.  It may seem like a minor thing, but, I think it's actually a huge thing that warrants a large price difference.

Not at the same level, but, in the very early days of CGC, I really wanted a Thor #337 CGC 9.8 (when that was still to find - yes, noobs who weren't around in the early 2000s, 9.8s even on Moderns were hard to find back then).  My friend BronzeBruce13 got one and graciously offered it to me for a very reasonable price...and then I saw the scan.  75 cent Canadian variant.  All the nostalgia of seeing that book with the 60 cent price tag growing up just went out the window.  Didn't see 75 cent Canadian variants growing up, hence, zero nostalgia, hence, didn't want the book at all.  2c 

Edited by delekkerste
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4 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Pence copies look weird to many (most?) American collectors.  The nostalgia is less because those books were never available on the newsstands here, and most of the back issues in circulation here are cents copies, so, even if you weren't around to buy this off the newsstands in 1962, whenever you saw this book on the wall at an LCS or at a show growing up, it was always a cents copy.  It may seem like a minor thing, but, I think it's actually a huge thing that warrants a large price difference.

Not at the same level, but, in the very early days of CGC, I really wanted a Thor #337 CGC 9.8 (when that was still to find - yes, noobs who weren't around in the early 2000s, 9.8s even on Moderns were hard to find back then).  My friend BronzeBruce13 got one and graciously offered it to me for a very reasonable price...and then I saw the scan.  75 cent Canadian variant.  All the nostalgia of seeing that book with the 60 cent price tag growing up just went out the window.  Didn't see 75 cent Canadian variants growing up, hence, zero nostalgia, hence, didn't want the book at all.  2c 

I can see that @delekkerste, yes. I completely understand why most US collectors feel the way they do about pence books and I get that they will never command the same sort of interest or prices as their US cousins. We like them over here of course, but also like the US originals too for their 'purity' for want of a better word.

I do like to bang the pence drum though and have always liked variants of all shapes and sizes (hence the four threads in my signature line). Maybe one day, when all the US collectors have all the US copies they can handle they'll turn to the pence copies and say "OK, let's try a run of those". If nothing else, they don't half look good. And you guys made them don't forget! :headbang:

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