THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB
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Personally, I wouldn't take Pedigree sales as an indication of market. Pedigree's market is limited because some people refuse to deal with Doug's past.

 

Personally, after seeing many examples of their books I have no problem with CBCS's grading standards.

I get it , that was just one example. I personally would not buy a book in their slab.

 

If you own a slab with an old label, you already have. Now, they just don't say 'CGC' on them.

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I know how to grade (decent) It does matter to me as well as several other collectors . You guys are dealers I am a collector and a customer. Feedback from people that spend money on books is always good right?

 

If i purchased a CBCS slab for the book, I would want it to match my collection . I would re-slab it and take the chance that the 2 company's grading standards where the same and I would have to pay more cash for the re-slab. Seems like a hassle and would rather just buy the CGC slab.

 

Why does the other company's books get priced the same as CGC books with so little history? If OSPG is so outdated it just seems risky to buy the unproven commodity regardless of the new company's CEO's history.

Edited by paul747
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Personally, I wouldn't take Pedigree sales as an indication of market. Pedigree's market is limited because some people refuse to deal with Doug's past.

 

Personally, after seeing many examples of their books I have no problem with CBCS's grading standards.

I get it , that was just one example. I personally would not buy a book in their slab.

 

If you own a slab with an old label, you already have. Now, they just don't say 'CGC' on them.

 

Its not just about CGC on the label. Its the trust in the company. In time maybe but not now. There have been several slabs that look over graded from them and 9.9's are given out like candy.

 

Cgc has their "tight" and "loose" periods what was the time the "other guy was at CGC labled as ?

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I know how to grade (decent) It does matter to me as well as several other collectors . You guys are dealers I am a collector and a customer. Feedback from people that spend money on books is always good right?

 

If i purchased a CBCS slab for the book, I would want it to match my collection . I would re-slab it and take the chance that the 2 company's grading standards where the same and I would have to pay more cash for the re-slab. Seems like a hassle and would rather just buy the CGC slab.

 

Why does the other company's books get priced the same as CGC books with so little history? If OSPG is so outdated it just seems risky to buy the unproven commodity regardless of the new company's CEO's history.

 

+1. It is my understanding that the vast majority of CBCS submissions have been and still are by dealers, so they do have a vested interest in promulgating the notion that there "is no difference in pricing" between the two companies realized. While I have seen some comparable pricing realized in grade when their slabs first started hitting the market, at least half the time, and even more frequently as time goes on, CBCS slabs go for less. The company has yet to earn mass market acceptance, and I agree with Paul, there is no reason why that should automatically happen overnight, just because some big time dealers decide to use them early, most likely because CBCS offered a discount for the business, and yet still expect to realize comparable CGC slab prices at auction. That is just not a realistic expectation IMO. I too am only a collector, and I know that I would never buy a CBCS slab either for many reasons. Here are a few of them:

 

1) I don't like their labels. Too much fine print. Details about the grading are good, but I don't want to suffer eye strain trying to figure out what they say is going on with a book.

 

2) Restored books have the same looking labels as non-restored books. This literally only benefits the seller of the book and/or the person who submits the books for grading. This seems an obvious kow-tow to those who wish to de-stigmatize restored books, but all it does is make me scroll right past CBCS books on the occasion I see them listed. If I'm doing it you can assume there are 1000 others doing the same thing.

 

3) Not all CBCS labels disclose trimming, simply because it's "obvious". I don't care if it's "obvious" or not, if the book is trimmed the grading company needs to put it on the label, front and center.

 

4) CBCS will "verify" an un-witnessed signature. Unless they have hand writing experts trained at Quantico on staff, sorry, you shouldn't be doing that.

 

5) I am.not going to buy a CBCS slab because whenever I see one my first question is, "what was the person's reason/incentive for sending this book to CBCS instead of CGC?" and "Is there something about this book that CBCS won't disclose that CGC would?"

 

6) If I have 100 CGC slabs, why would I want another random mis-matched slab, and especially of a super mega key book from a company that just started?

 

This has nothing to do with the integrity of the company, and competition isn't a bad thing. I also understand that there would be no point of their existence if they simply duplicated everything CGC does exactly. But CBCS is very late to the game, and the market is very conditioned to what CGC has done. And since they are the ones who came up with the entire slabbing and grading concept, it only makes sense that there is, and will likely continue to be, a difference in realized prices. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

 

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I know how to grade (decent) It does matter to me as well as several other collectors . You guys are dealers I am a collector and a customer. Feedback from people that spend money on books is always good right?

 

If i purchased a CBCS slab for the book, I would want it to match my collection . I would re-slab it and take the chance that the 2 company's grading standards where the same and I would have to pay more cash for the re-slab. Seems like a hassle and would rather just buy the CGC slab.

 

Why does the other company's books get priced the same as CGC books with so little history? If OSPG is so outdated it just seems risky to buy the unproven commodity regardless of the new company's CEO's history.

 

+1. It is my understanding that the vast majority of CBCS submissions have been and still are by dealers, so they do have a vested interest in promulgating the notion that there "is no difference in pricing" between the two companies realized. While I have seen some comparable pricing realized in grade when their slabs first started hitting the market, at least half the time, and even more frequently as time goes on, CBCS slabs go for less. The company has yet to earn mass market acceptance, and I agree with Paul, there is no reason why that should automatically happen overnight, just because some big time dealers decide to use them early, most likely because CBCS offered a discount for the business, and yety still expect to realize comparable CGC slab prices at auction. That is just not a realistic expectation IMO. I too am only a collector, and I know that I would never buy a CBCS slab either for many reasons. Here are a few of them:

 

1) I don't like their labels. Too much fine print. Details about the grading are good, but I don't want to suffer eye strain trying to figure out what they say is going on with a book.

 

2) Restored books have the same looking labels as non-restored books. This literally only benefits the seller of the book and/or the person who submits the books for grading. This seems an obvious kow-tow to those who wish to de-stigmatize restored books, but all it does is make me scroll right past CBCS books on the occasion I see them listed. If I'm doing it you can assume there are 1000 others doing the same thing.

 

3) Not all CBCS labels disclose trimming, simply because it's "obvious". I don't care if it's "obvious" or not, if the book is trimmed the grading company needs to put it on the label, front and center.

 

4) CBCS will "verify" an un-witnessed signature. Unless they have hand writing experts trained at Quantico on staff, sorry, you shouldn't be doing that.

 

5) I am.not going to buy a CBCS slab because whenever I see one my first question is, "what was the person's reason/incentive for sending this book to CBCS instead of CGC?" and "Is there something about this book that CBCS won't disclose that CGC would?"

 

6) If I have 100 CGC slabs, why would I want another random mis-matched slab, and especially of a super mega key book from a company that just started?

 

This has nothing to do with the integrity of the company, and competition isn't a bad thing. I also understand that there would be no point of their existence if they simply duplicated everything CGC does exactly. But CBCS is very late to the game, and the market is very conditioned to what CGC has done. And since they are the ones who came up with the entire slabbing and grading concept, it only makes sense that there is, and will likely continue to be, difference in realized prices. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

+100 and thank god someone that can write explained it better !
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Post "be poofin". Not sure why, but whatever....

 

lol I saw it. You posted a scan of a CBCS book. Guess that's no bueno around these parts.

 

-J.

 

I did a side by side of the 66k 7.5 and the 48k 7.5 so people could see the differences in eye appeal. There was also a reference to buy the book, not the grade. Someone who paid that 48k bought the book and not the grade.

 

I'm not sure of these vague rules. That was far from an "promoting their competitors". I'm assuming like you mentioned, going forward, a slab is a no-no.

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First we saw coverless copies of AF15 slabbed. And I didn't mind.

Then we saw coverless incomplete copies of AF15 slabbed. And I didn't mind.

Then we saw individual pages from AF15 slabbed. And I STILL didn't mind.

 

But then I saw this listing. Page 10 of AF15 slabbed, but inside a reproduction cover SO YOU DONT EVEN SEE THE PAGE!!! This it taking it too far.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMAZING-FANTASY-15-PGX-1ST-APPEARANCE-ORIGIN-OF-SPIDER-MAN-GRADED-PAGE-/201230430873?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item2eda44b299

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First we saw coverless copies of AF15 slabbed. And I didn't mind.

Then we saw coverless incomplete copies of AF15 slabbed. And I didn't mind.

Then we saw individual pages from AF15 slabbed. And I STILL didn't mind.

 

But then I saw this listing. Page 10 of AF15 slabbed, but inside a reproduction cover SO YOU DONT EVEN SEE THE PAGE!!! This it taking it too far.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMAZING-FANTASY-15-PGX-1ST-APPEARANCE-ORIGIN-OF-SPIDER-MAN-GRADED-PAGE-/201230430873?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item2eda44b299

 

This drives me crazy too. Since CGC (and in this case, PGX) doesn't "grade" the interior (other than page quality), you pretty much have to assume that the coverless (or single page in this case) is in really low grade shape. I think slabbed, coverless books/pages look cool -- you can see interior pages you otherwise don't normally see. When people put a fake cover over top of the only original part, it drives me insane. I'd consider bidding on something like this if it was just the page -- with the fake cover, I have zero interest.

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Hey everyone --

 

Great discussion here; I've learned a lot!

 

I've also just joined the club on this one...sold a bunch of FF's to pave way for this 6.0 from the November Comiclink auction. I know the chipping will turn off some of you, but I thought the book as a whole was beautiful and worth a GPA-level bid. Glad to have won it!

 

Congrats to all the others on this thread, too --

 

Dan

 

AmazingFantasy15_zps4217e06f.jpg

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Hey everyone --

 

Great discussion here; I've learned a lot!

 

I've also just joined the club on this one...sold a bunch of FF's to pave way for this 6.0 from the November Comiclink auction. I know the chipping will turn off some of you, but I thought the book as a whole was beautiful and worth a GPA-level bid. Glad to have won it!

 

Congrats to all the others on this thread, too --

 

Dan

 

AmazingFantasy15_zps4217e06f.jpg

 

Beautiful book and with white pages to boot!

Welcome to the club!

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Hey everyone --

 

Great discussion here; I've learned a lot!

 

I've also just joined the club on this one...sold a bunch of FF's to pave way for this 6.0 from the November Comiclink auction. I know the chipping will turn off some of you, but I thought the book as a whole was beautiful and worth a GPA-level bid. Glad to have won it!

 

Congrats to all the others on this thread, too --

 

Dan

 

AmazingFantasy15_zps4217e06f.jpg

 

Beautious!

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Hey everyone --

 

Great discussion here; I've learned a lot!

 

I've also just joined the club on this one...sold a bunch of FF's to pave way for this 6.0 from the November Comiclink auction. I know the chipping will turn off some of you, but I thought the book as a whole was beautiful and worth a GPA-level bid. Glad to have won it!

 

Congrats to all the others on this thread, too --

 

Dan

 

AmazingFantasy15_zps4217e06f.jpg

 

I can only dream of owning a copy this nice. Well done sir!

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I know how to grade (decent) It does matter to me as well as several other collectors . You guys are dealers I am a collector and a customer. Feedback from people that spend money on books is always good right?

 

If i purchased a CBCS slab for the book, I would want it to match my collection . I would re-slab it and take the chance that the 2 company's grading standards where the same and I would have to pay more cash for the re-slab. Seems like a hassle and would rather just buy the CGC slab.

 

Why does the other company's books get priced the same as CGC books with so little history? If OSPG is so outdated it just seems risky to buy the unproven commodity regardless of the new company's CEO's history.

 

+1. It is my understanding that the vast majority of CBCS submissions have been and still are by dealers, so they do have a vested interest in promulgating the notion that there "is no difference in pricing" between the two companies realized. While I have seen some comparable pricing realized in grade when their slabs first started hitting the market, at least half the time, and even more frequently as time goes on, CBCS slabs go for less. The company has yet to earn mass market acceptance, and I agree with Paul, there is no reason why that should automatically happen overnight, just because some big time dealers decide to use them early, most likely because CBCS offered a discount for the business, and yet still expect to realize comparable CGC slab prices at auction. That is just not a realistic expectation IMO. I too am only a collector, and I know that I would never buy a CBCS slab either for many reasons. Here are a few of them:

 

1) I don't like their labels. Too much fine print. Details about the grading are good, but I don't want to suffer eye strain trying to figure out what they say is going on with a book.

 

2) Restored books have the same looking labels as non-restored books. This literally only benefits the seller of the book and/or the person who submits the books for grading. This seems an obvious kow-tow to those who wish to de-stigmatize restored books, but all it does is make me scroll right past CBCS books on the occasion I see them listed. If I'm doing it you can assume there are 1000 others doing the same thing.

 

3) Not all CBCS labels disclose trimming, simply because it's "obvious". I don't care if it's "obvious" or not, if the book is trimmed the grading company needs to put it on the label, front and center.

 

4) CBCS will "verify" an un-witnessed signature. Unless they have hand writing experts trained at Quantico on staff, sorry, you shouldn't be doing that.

 

5) I am.not going to buy a CBCS slab because whenever I see one my first question is, "what was the person's reason/incentive for sending this book to CBCS instead of CGC?" and "Is there something about this book that CBCS won't disclose that CGC would?"

 

6) If I have 100 CGC slabs, why would I want another random mis-matched slab, and especially of a super mega key book from a company that just started?

 

This has nothing to do with the integrity of the company, and competition isn't a bad thing. I also understand that there would be no point of their existence if they simply duplicated everything CGC does exactly. But CBCS is very late to the game, and the market is very conditioned to what CGC has done. And since they are the ones who came up with the entire slabbing and grading concept, it only makes sense that there is, and will likely continue to be, a difference in realized prices. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

 

hm thanks for writing this up

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Hey everyone --

 

Great discussion here; I've learned a lot!

 

I've also just joined the club on this one...sold a bunch of FF's to pave way for this 6.0 from the November Comiclink auction. I know the chipping will turn off some of you, but I thought the book as a whole was beautiful and worth a GPA-level bid. Glad to have won it!

 

Congrats to all the others on this thread, too --

 

Dan

 

AmazingFantasy15_zps4217e06f.jpg

 

Dan- That's an impressive book there, brother. (thumbs u

 

Silverweb- No problem. :)

 

-J.

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But CBCS is very late to the game, and the market is very conditioned to what CGC has done. And since they are the ones who came up with the entire slabbing and grading concept, it only makes sense that there is, and will likely continue to be, a difference in realized prices.

Yeah, whoever was 1st to establish certified grading criteria and bring graded comic books to market acceptance should certainly have the upper hand, even if their intellectual property rights are "owned" by the mother company. (thumbs u

 

:screwy:

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