THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB
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59 minutes ago, namisgr said:

It wasn't, in my opinion.  The pages stick out from the covers more than they did before, and the top cover edges have been flattened into the starched collar look, both of which are remnants of pressing.

thanks.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/25/2019 at 2:56 PM, Chaos_in_Canada said:
On 5/24/2019 at 9:33 PM, Gotham Kid said:

nice newly graded 8.0 copy listed at GregReeceComics

https://reececomics.com/product/amazing-fantasy-15-cgc-8-0-ow-wh-pages/

AMAZING-FANTASY-15-CGC-8.0.jpg

Love the date stamp. Highly doubt the asking price will be met though.

Previously CGC7.0 OW-W # 0162887001 :taptaptap:

https://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction/comic/064706/amazing-fantasy-15-cgc-70-ow-w

 

AF15(7oww)DateStampF+R.jpg

AF15(7oww)datestampF+R-$105k(pedigree).jpg

good catch ! love this hobby.

Edited by Gotham Kid

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Posted (edited)

This can't be a shock to anyone at this point.  So many of the SA Marvels that are either keys or high grades have one or more of these signs of being pressed that it's become typically accepted that this is what they normally look like.

And, needless to say, people are buying them.

Edited by namisgr

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1 minute ago, namisgr said:

This can't be a shock to anyone at this point.  So many of the SA Marvels that are either keys or high grades have one or more of these signs of being pressed that it's become typically accepted that this is what they normally look like.

Maybe a new label is needed (don't know where it would be placed as there are so many on the slab already) that displays the "Resub number.& work done". Ex: Resub #1 pressed, Resub #2 Spine creases removed, Resub #3, ..etc. That way a buyer will know what version they have. :idea:

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Posted (edited)

That ship sailed over 15 years ago.  A digital database of submissions would have made it possible to identify many, many more of the manipulated books, and helped spot the shenanigans like microtrimming, staple tucks, spine realignments, and others that people use to improve numerical grades of blue label books.  But it would have taken staff time away from churning out slabs, and ran counter to the desire to have books submitted over and over again.

Edited by namisgr

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1 hour ago, namisgr said:

That ship sailed over 15 years ago.  A digital database of submissions would have made it possible to spot many, many more of the manipulated books, and helped spot the shenanigans like microtrimming and many others that people use to improve numerical grades of blue label books.  But it would have taken staff time away from churning out slabs, and ran counter to the desire to have books submitted over and over again.

Are you trying to make a more gloomy day here in Los Angeles than it already is?

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Wow that’s a crazy upgrade. Prob cost $200 for press and regrade = +$140k increase in sales price!

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6 minutes ago, NoMan said:

Are you trying to make a more gloomy day here in Los Angeles than it already is?

Don't hate the player.  Hate the game.  :wink:

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jasanity said:

Wow that’s a crazy upgrade. Prob cost $200 for press and regrade = +$140k increase in sales price!

I know a little and I think you're a bit off on your calculations. Perhaps, please, a more experienced actor can come on in here and break off some knowledge. Since no one is, I'll try.

It would cost, I believe, quite a bit more to grade since the grading fee is based on the estimated value of book. Pressing, same. 

Edited by NoMan

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3 minutes ago, NoMan said:

I know a little and I think you're a bit off on your calculations. Perhaps, please, a more experienced actor can come on in here and break off some knowledge. Since no one is, I'll try.

It would cost, I believe, quite a bit more to grade since the grading fee is based on the estimated value of book. Pressing, same. 

If so, how is the value determined at the end of the press? The presser doesn't know the new grade until it's been re-graded, no? What am I missing?

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1 hour ago, namisgr said:

Don't hate the player.  Hate the game.  :wink:

I know, I know: The train has left the station. I just think the trains, say in a Winston Link photograph of old, are more interesting than the trains of today. :preach:

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

If so, how is the value determined at the end of the press? The presser doesn't know the new grade until it's been re-graded, no? What am I missing?

I'm gonna step aside now. I dunno. 

:gossip: - I mean there is a Giant Elephant in the room here and, well, I'm a guest here and do enjoy the place and like to visit and I already got a strike last week. So.....:whatev:

Edited by NoMan

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7 minutes ago, NoMan said:

I'm gonna step aside now. I dunno. 

:gossip: - I mean there is a Giant Elephant in the room here and, well, I'm a guest here and do enjoy the place and like to visit and I already got a strike last week. So.....:whatev:

I'm going to have to press someone for an answer.

And then charge them a hundred grand when their face upgrades to an eight. 

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23 minutes ago, Jasanity said:

Wow that’s a crazy upgrade. Prob cost $200 for press and regrade = +$140k increase in sales price!

when third party grading is being used in these profit manipulations / 'chasing the bump circus', it poisons the attempt to build trust in this hobby. it poisons not least how the hobby is assesed by external parties as a potential investment vehicle. just sayin ...

 

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23 minutes ago, Mr bla bla said:

when third party grading is being used in these profit manipulations / 'chasing the bump circus', it poisons the attempt to build trust in this hobby. it poisons not least how the hobby is assesed by external parties as a potential investment vehicle. just sayin ...

 

I am pretty new to the hobby, but my understanding is that this has been extensively done for years. Many years.

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1 hour ago, NoMan said:

It would cost, I believe, quite a bit more to grade since the grading fee is based on the estimated value of book. Pressing, same. 

Depending on who you use, pressing costs differ but most of the time for big books the cost is a percentage of the value of the book.

And there is also the capital needed and the risk involved to attempt something like this.

In the end, the book is a CGC 8.0 that was sitting in a 7.0 holder. The book went in a public auction and anybody who wanted to had the opportunity to upgrade it.

Not everyone has 6 figures lying around to risk. And many people are risk adverse and won't try it.

39 minutes ago, Mr bla bla said:

when third party grading is being used in these profit manipulations / 'chasing the bump circus', it poisons the attempt to build trust in this hobby.

Third party certification grades the book in front of them as it sits.

They are not responsible for what people do to their own books when they are not in their possession.

Every industry is the same. If you want to dip your toe in the water, look before you do. And the deeper the water, the deeper you need to look before you jump in.

I grew up in the automotive industry and if you're going to drop 6 figures on a collectible car you should know what you're doing other than just writing a check for it.

 

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20 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

Depending on who you use, pressing costs differ but most of the time for big books the cost is a percentage of the value of the book.

And there is also the capital needed and the risk involved to attempt something like this.

In the end, the book is a CGC 8.0 that was sitting in a 7.0 holder. The book went in a public auction and anybody who wanted to had the opportunity to upgrade it.

Not everyone has 6 figures lying around to risk. And many people are risk adverse and won't try it.

Third party certification grades the book in front of them as it sits.

They are not responsible for what people do to their own books when they are not in their possession.

Every industry is the same. If you want to dip your toe in the water, look before you do. And the deeper the water, the deeper you need to look before you jump in.

I grew up in the automotive industry and if you're going to drop 6 figures on a collectible car you should know what you're doing other than just writing a check for it.

 

Using the aforementioned AF15 as a test case, with the presser being presented the book in it's 7.0 state, would the pressers fee be a % of the 7.0's $100k or the 8.0's $240k Roy? And who decides?

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Using the aforementioned AF15 as a test case, with the presser being presented the book in it's 7.0 state, would the pressers fee be a % of the 7.0's $100k or the 8.0's $240k Roy? And who decides?

The submitter decides the value but if the book is severely undervalued CGC will bump the value of the book to where they feel it should be after it is graded.

CCS and CGC each charge 3% with a maximum charge of $5000 (each). Assuming you're valuing the book at $100K, you're likely looking at $3K to have the book pressed, and $5000 once it's graded (because a the book would bump to a $200K book and it would cost $6K to grade but the fee is capped at $5000).

CCS also charge 1% or $1000 if you want the book evaluated before proceeding.

So you're talking an additional $8K in fees over the cost of the book (without the 1% evaluation) plus additional costs (shipping, insurance, risk, etc).

The important part to remember is that there are no guarantees. People see the money being made but they don't factor in that someone always assumes the risk.

 

Edited by VintageComics

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7 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

The submitter decides the value but if the book is severely undervalued CGC will bump the value of the book to where they feel it should be after it is graded.

CCS and CGC each charge 3% with a maximum charge of $5000 (each). Assuming you're valuing the book at $100K, you're likely looking at $3K to have the book pressed, and $5000 once it's graded (because a the book would bump to a $200K book and it would cost $6K to grade but the fee is capped at $5000).

CCS also charge 1% or $1000 if you want the book evaluated before proceeding.

So you're talking an additional $8K in fees over the cost of the book (without the 1% evaluation) plus additional costs (shipping, insurance, risk, etc).

The important part to remember is that there are no guarantees. People see the money being made but they don't factor in that someone always assumes the risk.

 

Quite a responsibity. Gone are the days of a few weeks under a stack of atlases.

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1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

The submitter decides the value but if the book is severely undervalued CGC will bump the value of the book to where they feel it should be after it is graded.

CCS and CGC each charge 3% with a maximum charge of $5000 (each). Assuming you're valuing the book at $100K, you're likely looking at $3K to have the book pressed, and $5000 once it's graded (because a the book would bump to a $200K book and it would cost $6K to grade but the fee is capped at $5000).

CCS also charge 1% or $1000 if you want the book evaluated before proceeding.

So you're talking an additional $8K in fees over the cost of the book (without the 1% evaluation) plus additional costs (shipping, insurance, risk, etc).

The important part to remember is that there are no guarantees. People see the money being made but they don't factor in that someone always assumes the risk.

 

Dumb question Roy:

How do they treat a 200k book different than a $2 book in grading?

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