Rarest 2nd Print Marvel Copper Age Book?
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I never thought I would see the day that collectors would break down and put "2nd, 3rd prints" etc into a different catagory than " reprints"

 

To me they have always been the same thing.

 

Whether it's because the company did not anticipate orders properly and produced more books within a month, or saw a 5 month old book, or even a 20 year old book get hot and produced more. They have always been " reprints" to me. The 2nd 3rd printing designation only showing which " run on the press " they came from.

 

Dont get me wrong, Im not arguing the collectability of these books, I dig them. I just dont get differentiating them.

 

The fact remains the company ran the press on these books a 2nd or 3rd time because they knew they could make a $. Direct, newstand, multipacks, whatever.

 

The only re-produced books that I can really see the argument for seperation is the Marvel legends inserts, as many of them have completely different covers. Even saying that, they would still go into my " reprint boxes".

Edited by Silverdream

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I never thought I would see the day that collectors would break down and put "2nd, 3rd prints" etc into a different catagory than " reprints"

 

To me they have always been the same thing.

 

Whether it's because the company did not anticipate orders properly and produced more books within a month, or saw a 5 month old book, or even a 20 year old book get hot and produced more. They have always been " reprints" to me. The 2nd 3rd printing designation only showing which " run on the press " they came from.

 

Dont get me wrong, Im not arguing the collectability of these books, I dig them. I just dont get differentiating them.

 

The fact remains the company ran the press on these books a 2nd or 3rd time because they knew they could make a $. Direct, newstand, multipacks, whatever.

 

The only re-produced books that I can really see the argument for seperation is the Marvel legends inserts, as many of them have completely different covers. Even saying that, they would still go into my " reprint boxes".

 

Technically, you're correct.

 

All later printings are, technically, reprints.

 

But historically, that doesn't really bear out. Reprints have been done for 50+ years in comics (DC Annuals, Marvel Tales, etc.) In Marvel Tales #1, the Spiderman story in Amazing Fantasy #15 is reprinted. So is Hulk #1, JIM #83, TOS #39, among others. It is a classic reprint. But it is not a second printing of each of those books. It is a reprint of multiple stories from multiple books. And though the tradition of reprints occurred at Marvel and DC throughout the 70's and 80's, either in Treasury format, or Digest format, or Fireside format, or Baxter format, those are all properly classified as reprints, rather than "XXX printings" of individual books.

 

Books that were reprinted due to immediate initial demand did not occur until the late 70's (Star Wars), and they didn't really label them "XXX printings" until the 1980's (and even then, it wasn't based on initial demand.)

 

And if they were reprinted in a slightly different format, 10-20 years after their initial release (a la Spideman #101), or like the Marvel Milestone books, can they really be called "XXX printings"...? Or are they just generic reprints?

 

Overwhelming demand sending books back to the presses was a very scarce event in comics until the early 90's. In fact, the very first "XXX printings" based on demand were the early Marvel Graphic Novels of 1982-1983, which weren't regular comic books, then Indie Black & Whites from 1984-1986 (Turtles, Fish Police #1, Boris the Bear #1, Dark Horse Presents #1, and even some early Indie Color books like Grendel #1 (2nd series) There were earlier oddballs, like Elfquest magazine.

 

And sure, there were the prestige format books like Dark Knight #1-3, Killing Joke, and Longbow Hunters #1, but these were...well...prestige projects, not regular monthly books.

 

The first regular Marvel to go back to the presses to meet initial demand...ever...was Ghost Rider #1, May of 1990! The first DC? Lobo #1 from Nov of 1990.

 

(Undergrounds are the exception. They called themselves 2nd, 3rd, 4th printings going back to 1968 or earlier.)

 

The fact is, other than Star Wars (which was a phenom unto itself), Marvel and DC's conventional wisdom regarding reprinting sellouts was to package them in a trade (as they did with Dark Phoenix, nearly 4 years after release, as the relatively new trade paperback format, a continuation of the Fireside series of the 70's.)

 

They simply did not reprint single issues. The big initial sellouts of the 80's....Thor #337, Spidey #252, Man of Steel #1, Batman #428...books that were instant hits...,did not go back to press as single issues. In fact, of those four, the only one that went back relatively fast was Batman #428, and that was the trade "A Death In The Family" that was printed and released by December of 1988, less than two months after #429 hit the stands (when DC realized what a monster hit they had.)

 

That's a large part of the reason that these books RETAINED their value...books like Spiderman #121 and 122 (which were, essentially, the first "megahit sellouts" in comics), Howard the Duck #1 (which had shenanigans going on with it), later Byrne X-Men, New Teen Titans, Simonson Thor, etc etc etc....these books were not reprinted for a long time, and when they were, it was in a completely different format.

 

Yes, there was the Thundercats #1 (which was second printed for multi-packs) and yes, there was the GI Joe books (again, for multi-packs), but these were based on subsequent demand for the books, several years down the road. Marvel didn't begin reprinting GI Joe until 1984-1985, two to three years after the originals. And yes, they later printed the hell out of Batman #397-432 and Byrne Superman, going up to six (and maybe 7) printings for some issues, all the way from 1988-1990. But those weren't because the originals were sellouts (there are no later printings, for example, of Batman #400, 404-407, 417-420, or 426-429.)

 

No, second printing, third printing, fourth printing, et al for single "hot" issues...entirely a 90's invention as far as DC and Marvel are concerned. And the variations (Roman numerals, logo color variations)...same thing.

 

(Anyone feel free to correct me if I've gotten any details wrong.)

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I never thought I would see the day that collectors would break down and put "2nd, 3rd prints" etc into a different catagory than " reprints"

 

To me they have always been the same thing.

 

Whether it's because the company did not anticipate orders properly and produced more books within a month, or saw a 5 month old book, or even a 20 year old book get hot and produced more. They have always been " reprints" to me. The 2nd 3rd printing designation only showing which " run on the press " they came from.

 

Dont get me wrong, Im not arguing the collectability of these books, I dig them. I just dont get differentiating them.

 

The fact remains the company ran the press on these books a 2nd or 3rd time because they knew they could make a $. Direct, newstand, multipacks, whatever.

 

The only re-produced books that I can really see the argument for seperation is the Marvel legends inserts, as many of them have completely different covers. Even saying that, they would still go into my " reprint boxes".

 

Technically, you're correct.

 

All later printings are, technically, reprints.

 

But historically, that doesn't really bear out. Reprints have been done for 50+ years in comics (DC Annuals, Marvel Tales, etc.) In Marvel Tales #1, the Spiderman story in Amazing Fantasy #15 is reprinted. So is Hulk #1, JIM #83, TOS #39, among others. It is a classic reprint. But it is not a second printing of each of those books. It is a reprint of multiple stories from multiple books. And though the tradition of reprints occurred at Marvel and DC throughout the 70's and 80's, either in Treasury format, or Digest format, or Fireside format, or Baxter format, those are all properly classified as reprints, rather than "XXX printings" of individual books.

 

Books that were reprinted due to immediate initial demand did not occur until the late 70's (Star Wars), and they didn't really label them "XXX printings" until the 1980's (and even then, it wasn't based on initial demand.)

 

And if they were reprinted in a slightly different format, 10-20 years after their initial release (a la Spideman #101), or like the Marvel Milestone books, can they really be called "XXX printings"...? Or are they just generic reprints?

 

Overwhelming demand sending books back to the presses was a very scarce event in comics until the early 90's. In fact, the very first "XXX printings" based on demand were the early Marvel Graphic Novels of 1982-1983, which weren't regular comic books, then Indie Black & Whites from 1984-1986 (Turtles, Fish Police #1, Boris the Bear #1, Dark Horse Presents #1, and even some early Indie Color books like Grendel #1 (2nd series) There were earlier oddballs, like Elfquest magazine.

 

And sure, there were the prestige format books like Dark Knight #1-3, Killing Joke, and Longbow Hunters #1, but these were...well...prestige projects, not regular monthly books.

 

The first regular Marvel to go back to the presses to meet initial demand...ever...was Ghost Rider #1, May of 1990! The first DC? Lobo #1 from Nov of 1990.

 

(Undergrounds are the exception. They called themselves 2nd, 3rd, 4th printings going back to 1968 or earlier.)

 

The fact is, other than Star Wars (which was a phenom unto itself), Marvel and DC's conventional wisdom regarding reprinting sellouts was to package them in a trade (as they did with Dark Phoenix, nearly 4 years after release, as the relatively new trade paperback format, a continuation of the Fireside series of the 70's.)

 

They simply did not reprint single issues. The big initial sellouts of the 80's....Thor #337, Spidey #252, Man of Steel #1, Batman #428...books that were instant hits...,did not go back to press as single issues. In fact, of those four, the only one that went back relatively fast was Batman #428, and that was the trade "A Death In The Family" that was printed and released by December of 1988, less than two months after #429 hit the stands (when DC realized what a monster hit they had.)

 

That's a large part of the reason that these books RETAINED their value...books like Spiderman #121 and 122 (which were, essentially, the first "megahit sellouts" in comics), Howard the Duck #1 (which had shenanigans going on with it), later Byrne X-Men, New Teen Titans, Simonson Thor, etc etc etc....these books were not reprinted for a long time, and when they were, it was in a completely different format.

 

Yes, there was the Thundercats #1 (which was second printed for multi-packs) and yes, there was the GI Joe books (again, for multi-packs), but these were based on subsequent demand for the books, several years down the road. Marvel didn't begin reprinting GI Joe until 1984-1985, two to three years after the originals. And yes, they later printed the hell out of Batman #397-432 and Byrne Superman, going up to six (and maybe 7) printings for some issues, all the way from 1988-1990. But those weren't because the originals were sellouts (there are no later printings, for example, of Batman #400, 404-407, 417-420, or 426-429.)

 

No, second printing, third printing, fourth printing, et al for single "hot" issues...entirely a 90's invention as far as DC and Marvel are concerned. And the variations (Roman numerals, logo color variations)...same thing.

 

(Anyone feel free to correct me if I've gotten any details wrong.)

 

RMA, thank you for posting all of that information. This is stuff most people do not know and im sure it is greatly appreciated. I would also like to appreciate you, since I do not have to post something similar now. I will however, resond to some of your information.

 

I helped order comics for my LCS in the 90's The reprints from 1990-1992 were interesting. I remember November and December 1990 were heavy months for this stuff. Extiction Agenda was a big one, so was the Art Adams FF run.

 

Anyhow, to our discussion. Besides for a history lesson, prestige format and Graphic Novels really have no reason being in this discussion. Other than the fact Marvel and DC both were marking those as 2nd or later printings all the way back to the early 80's and that they showed they were willing to do it ( reprint) if they didnt get the print runs correct. We are talking about monthly comics here, so special mini series and prestige should be looked at differently.

 

Trades and classic reprints like marvel tales and reprint annuals Marvel Triple Action, Marvels greatest comics etc, are different because they had differrent titles, half of the time they had multiple stories in each issue as well and/or different covers. TPBs are also different as they focus on complete stories from multiple issues. Again, we are talking about single book, monthly reprints. To me, there is a difference between reprinting a story, and reprinting a book. Even if the ads are different, if the attempt is to use the same title and issue number on the cover and Indicia then its a reprint of that single issue, as reprint of the exact book, not just the story.

 

Indipendant publishers were reprinting single issue comics based on demand for decades, and marking them as such. They had to, they couldnt afford to overprint, doing so meant they lost money, and possibly any profit.

 

While it is true Marvel and DC did not get into this much besides multipack reprints, I think we both know it is because they were overproducing comics at an exceptional rate. The direct market was a huge boom to the print runs. No returns meant they were less scared to print extra copies, and the availibility on newstands started shrinking. As with everything, times change. Between 1980 and 1988 the price of a comic went from .40 cents to $1.00, retail stores could not order as many books as they once did. Print runs got a little smaller, I would be guessing, but I would say they dropped double digits percentage wise by late 1989 comparted to say 1984. Combine that with the fact the speculation era was just getting started, it was a perfect situation for regular issue reprints to start.

 

Marvel Knew exactly what they were doing. The cost to produce comics started to get more expensive, and they decided the 1990's were going to be like the 1970's. Starting new titles with new characters. The difference was, instead of taking a risk overprinting, they decided to go with reprints, and expanded it to hot books as well. Think about it. Just in 1990 Ghost Rider # 1, New Warriors # 1, Spiderman # 1 all went to 2nd printings. By 1992 they started reprinting the first appearances of characters with new # 1 books. Silver sable # 1 came out June 1992 and the reprint for ASM 265 ( the first app of silver sable ) came out... June 1992 as well. Morbius the Living Vampire came out in September 1992 and the reprint for ASM 101 ( first Morbius ) was released Spetember 1992, the same month. By 1992 the speculation era was going pretty strong and all the publishers were trying to take advantage. No just by reprinting the first appearance of silver sable, but by also hooking up silver sable # 1 with a foil enchanced cover and charging double for it.

 

When I speak of 2nd printing or later reprints, I am talking about regular issue monthly comics. To be clear:

 

I do not diferentiate between: Star Wars # 1 reprints, Thundercats # 1 reprints, Transformers # 1 reprints, GI Joe Reprints, Ghost rider ( 5/1990 ) # 1 reprints, Spiderman ( 8/1990) Reprints, New Warriors ( 7/1990) # 1 reprints, TMNT # 1 reprints, Or even Zap Comics # 1 reprints.

 

Edit: I realize the reasons for the extra prints were different, I just dont see a big enough difference to classify them differently.

 

Edit: To answer your question about the Marvel Milestones, or even DC millenium editions, what does the Indicia say? Does the book LOOK like a 2nd printing or something else? To me they look like a special series dedicated to reprinting classic stories, Not a reprint of the BOOK. Sure it's all there, but the Indica says Marvel Milestone edition, and the cover is titled marvel Milestone edition, with a thumbnail picture of original cover. ASM 101 is different in that it Indicia says Amazing spiderman # 101. The book is meant to be a copy of the original minus adds and cover price.

 

 

After thinking about this pretty hard, I dont really think there is a right or wrong here, its more up to a persons preference. My preference is, if its a single monthly " reissue" and being passed along as that, even JC Penney reprints, its a 2nd print/reprint all the same.

 

Regardless of what we like to call them, I dig collecting them!

 

Edited by Silverdream

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Cliff notes would be nice or a smaller summary just saying.

 

Some things are not as easy to breakdown as you would think. As soon as you start leaving things out, people start making false assumptions attempting to fill in the gaps.

 

 

But yea, blocks of text look scary.

 

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Cliff notes would be nice or a smaller summary just saying.

 

Some things are not as easy to breakdown as you would think. As soon as you start leaving things out, people start making false assumptions attempting to fill in the gaps.

 

How very, very true.

 

But yea, blocks of text look scary.

 

Only to those unwilling to put in the time to learn.

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Best thread is months, MONTHS!

 

Thanks guys! Loved reading and learning. :headbang:

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A few people mentioned the Thundercats #1 2nd print, but as that is my niche I feel qualified to comment on that series.  The Marvel Star Thundercats series actually featured 5 separate reprints in issues 1, 2, and 4.  Each reprint has completely different ads and ad placement than their 1st print counterparts.

I suspect that the reprints were made to fill out grocery store 3-packs.  The 3-packs exist with issues 1-3 and issues 4-6.  No reprint exists of issue 3 because I suspect they over printed it to meet expected demand for the grocery store 3 packs of issues 1-3.  

And to relate this post to the original topic, I propose Thundercats #2 3rd print as the rarest Copper Age reprint.  (Okay, original post specifies "2nd Print," but still...)  I've only ever seen one copy of the 3rd print of issue 2.

Thundercats #1 2nd print (not stated in indica) - square price box, 75¢ cover price

58dfd82d120b2_1DM2ndprint-Madballsback-CarebearsLastChancetoSubscribeatLOW1985PricesMarch311986.thumb.jpg.1409c6a34cbdfc609c0c6851e60b37aa.jpg

 

Thundercats #1 3rd print (as stated in indica) - Marvel "M" price box, 75¢ cover price, no month

58dfd830d9445_1DM3rdprint-Madballsback-FourStarOfferJuly311986.thumb.jpg.b66924f000b38bdc6db4c792e02fdec9.jpg

Thundercats #2 2nd print (as stated in indica) - square price box, 75¢ cover price

58dfd8355a91c_22ndPrintMadballsback.thumb.jpg.58024513c14258be20f9557f6829f740.jpg

Thundercats #2 3rd print (not stated in indica) - Marvel "M" price box, 75¢ cover price

58dfd8250a785_23rdPringCarebearsback-LetOurStarsBrightenYourHolidayslastpagead.thumb.jpg.c14852394506098f28edc1cb05d96799.jpg

Thundercats #4 2nd print (as stated in indica) - Marvel "M" price box, 75¢ cover price, no month

58dfd828e2e77_42ndPrint.thumb.jpg.9df2aaaeff122f96b20c328a9dfc30ab.jpg

Edited by Saint_Doyle
Incorrectly stated that issue 4 second print does not state printing in indica, but it does. Oops.

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I had a 3rd print of Thundercats #1. I believe it went up in flames when my truck caught fire and I lost 17 long boxes of books.

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That's a very informative post, rare these days. Something else to stupidly look for.

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...and because I always see people trying to sell 2nd and 3rd prints of Thundercats 1 with the false claim that it is the Canadian edition I'll go ahead and throw this identification figure up for everyone.  I find it interesting how the price box of the reprints is inconsistent; sometimes being the square newsstand box and sometimes being the direct market Marvel "M."

I would have guessed (before looking at the indica) that the Marvel "M" would be the earlier reprint, as Marvel would entirely abandon this price box a few months later (around issue 6 of Thundercats).  

58e1710b32207_Thundercats1editionsandprints.thumb.jpg.1f191a813c17cc16c1ccd4405b05d09a.jpg

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Had he not shared this information I would have called the 2nd and 3rd prints Canadians and wouldn't have bothered to even look at the indicia.

 

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As a rule a Canadian Newsstand Edition MUST have a bar code.  

It's a common mistake.  I've seen 2nd Prints mistakenly slabbed with a "Canadian Edition" note on it.  (Not my book, I just found the image online while researching the topic.)

58e2c48a94754_2-2-CGCLabelError.jpg.b187fec34762f40cffd4327b0bce8a4a.jpg

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6 hours ago, Saint_Doyle said:

As a rule a Canadian Newsstand Edition MUST have a bar code.  

It's a common mistake.  I've seen 2nd Prints mistakenly slabbed with a "Canadian Edition" note on it.  (Not my book, I just found the image online while researching the topic.)

58e2c48a94754_2-2-CGCLabelError.jpg.b187fec34762f40cffd4327b0bce8a4a.jpg

This is the same for ALL Canadians, just as an FYI. So it looks like the second print doesn't have the little number under the month date.

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10 hours ago, FlyingDonut said:

No, according to his previous posts, that's a 2nd print #1, and there is no reprint of #3.  The #2 appears to be a 2nd print as well since (from what can be seen) it does not have the Direct Sales price box.

Edited by comiconxion

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OK - confusing, but I got it.

Is there a premium for the printings for any of them? There are second and third printings available easily for #1 - is that just a function of people opening packs or should I be on the look out for these?

And now I'm looking for Thundercats 2. I have no life.

Edited by FlyingDonut

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Comiconxion is correct, that 3-pack shows a SECOND Print of #1 and a FIRST print of #3.  I have never seen a reprint of #3, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.  

And I have never seen a premium paid for any of the Thundercats reprints, but up until 2 days ago I am pretty sure I was the only person on the planet who cared.  Now there are two of us!  (How do I input the cloud nine emoji from the old boards???)

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