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Batman and Joker Sketch by Bob Kane?

Started by Captain Canuck,

28 posts in this topic

Captain Canuck

Captain Canuck

Posted
Posted

I noticed that Mike Burkey had 2 sketches by Bob Kane for sale. Both were drawn in Batman and Me Books. I was wondering if anyone knows the story of these and the authenticity? I heard a lot of his drawings in these books were done by ghost artists and wondering if these are as well. One says signed and the other says sketched by. They look too good too be true, some of the best sketches I have seen by him. Too bad I missed them, but curious none-the-less.

 

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Dave Aikins

Dave Aikins

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They are official Bob Kane sketches. I have one, and I love it. I also only paid around $100 for mine, so I love it even more.

Did Bob Kane draw them? Well, the way Bob Kane's brain worked....he thought he drew them. He thought if he paid someone else to do something, he did it himself.

 

So...these are official Bob Kane drawings...and official Bob Kane drawings were usually not by Bob Kane. So, wouldn't you be MORE surprised if Bob Kane drew these?

And, the cool thing here is that you're not getting a fake Bob Kane sketch from some nameless dope on ebay...you're getting what is more than likely a fake Bob Kane sketch from BOB KANE HIMSELF.

 

Better yet, it's in a book where he claims he did everything and created everything HIMSELF.

 

That's gold, Jerry.

 

Gold.

 

If you are really worried if a Bob Kane drawing was truly drawn by Bob Kane, DON'T EVER BUY A BOB KANE DRAWING. It's that easy.

 

That's my two cents at least.

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Dave Aikins

Dave Aikins

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Don't get me wrong- there is still a bat-chance in bat-hell that Bob Kane sat down and actually drew 1000 of these by himself. So, the nice thing about these, to me, is that there is still that chance that Bob did these. I really couldn't find any online discussion that had die-hard proof he didn't do these. So, if anyone else has any evidence other than hearsay, I'd love to hear it.

 

It's more a matter of looking at the history of Bob Kane's life. It shouldn't be surprising to anyone if these were not done by Bob.

 

I've seen some different ones of these over the years. Some are better than others, which is probably a good sign, as I'd imagine if Bob did these he was chucking them out pretty fast. They do look pretty consistent for Bob Kane's drawing ability- not too good, but still charming. But there is always a good chance that Bob did 10 different ones and then paid someone to do the rest copying the ones Bob did. It's all speculation based on Bob's history...

 

Looking at some auction results, It seems like buyers are willing to think these are real, as I've seen some sell for (to me) good amounts of money.

 

If I wanted a Bob Kane sketch, this is what I'd buy...and I did. I like mine!

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Bird

Bird

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I am pretty sure Mike Burkey guarantees satisfaction as far as authenticity of the art he sells. I recall thinking I would be more comfortable buying something like a Bob Kane piece from Mike, as you could ALWAYS have recourse if definitive proof should surface of ghosting/forgery. That is not the case for every dealer At least that is how I read it. Mike will eventually pop in here you would think. I should also add I have no idea what the item descriptions of these items above were, so I don't really know exactly what Mike sold.

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Dave Aikins

Dave Aikins

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Nope, this isn't a matter of a dealer knowing if something is legit. This is just a goofy discussion about whether or not 1000 sketches done by an artist known for paying others to do his work were actually done by him.

 

And really, unless someone comes out and can prove Bob Kane didn't draw them, it's best to take them at their word- as original Bob Kane sketches...cuz people seem to be paying stupid money for these and don't like it if someone casually speculates that they were actually drawn by a "ghost".

 

But it's much more entertaining to assume that Bob Kane kept on being Bob Kane and paid someone else to draw them.

 

Like the clown paintings.

 

Or everything else after the 1940's.

 

but its more fun to always mention the clown paintings.

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Shemp

Shemp

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Like the clown paintings.

 

Or everything else after the 1940's.

 

but its more fun to always mention the clown paintings.

 

I know the story about the clown paintings , but I've never seen one.

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Captain Canuck

Captain Canuck

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Like the clown paintings.

 

Or everything else after the 1940's.

 

but its more fun to always mention the clown paintings.

 

I know the story about the clown paintings , but I've never seen one.

 

Do tell, I am curious to hear the story behind the Joker drawings.

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CollectingFool

CollectingFool

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This is just a goofy discussion about whether or not 1000 sketches done by an artist known for paying others to do his work were actually done by him.

 

And really, unless someone comes out and can prove Bob Kane didn't draw them, it's best to take them at their word- as original Bob Kane sketches.

 

Well that's not exactly true. I know plenty of collectors that have educated themselves and can easily tell if a piece is by a specific artist or not. It's possible a lot of collectors in the hobby now don't bother learning how to tell the difference but that wasn't always the way.

 

Anyway, this leads me to my question... suppose you could get a Batman and Robin sketch where you KNOW it's really by Bob Kane? What would the price be then? Here's why I ask:

 

I know an 85 year old that has always been a bit of a pack-rat/collector. He has a Bob Kane Batman and Robin drawing signed and dedicated. He knows it's by Bob Kane because Bob did it for him in front of him at the VA hospital in NYC in 1966. He was thinking about selling the piece and asked me what I thought he could get. He wasn't happy with the price I told him. In truth, prices on Kane sketches is artificially low because too many fakes are out there depressing the market. So, if you could get a guaranteed original Bob Kane ballpoint sketch from 1966 what would that be worth?

 

 

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Dave Aikins

Dave Aikins

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Who would guarantee it? Your friend?

 

This brings us to the eventual big problem with everything that could possibly be faked (or things that are often faked already). We all know that at some point you have to make a leap of faith. You have to trust a publisher (like Eclipse with the Batman & Me book) or an art dealer or a auction house, etc, etc...

 

For me, it makes it very hard to want to pay top dollar for autographs or, in this case, a quick ballpoint sketch, where you have to trust that someone is either honest or the best at verifying authenticity.

 

I would think that a collector would believe Eclipse books (with their sketched book edition) before believing your buddy, even though he was there in person and telling the truth... He might want to inquire about sending it to some signature verification business to at least get some back-up proof for it.

 

"Well that's not exactly true. I know plenty of collectors that have educated themselves and can easily tell if a piece is by a specific artist or not. It's possible a lot of collectors in the hobby now don't bother learning how to tell the difference but that wasn't always the way."

 

 

Sure...but Bob Kane is a bit harder to nail down. He signed his name to so much work that he didn't actually touch. it becomes harder to tell what was really his. Now, with his 1940's Batman books, collectors and fans have gotten really good at telling the difference between a Kane, or Robinson, or Sprang, or Moldoff, or Sayre Schwartz, or... made even harder in the early days as the studio environment would dictate a group effort on many pages. After the 40's, most folks in the know claim Bob didn't draw a damn thing. Ever.

 

In the 60's as Bob finally got pushed out of making DC claim everything was by him...Bob moved to Batman fine art paintings (that again, folks claim were ghosted) and not much more.

 

It's not too hard to believe he at least mastered the art of a crappy Batman marker head-sketch, so there has to be a good number of real ones out there, as you want to believe he was handing them out left and right to get attention...

 

What we're talking about specifically here is whether or not he did 1000 of them for Eclipse..by himself...in 1989.

 

Hell, good ol' Greg Theakston worked for Bob in the 80's. maybe Greg did them all. Someone go ask him.

 

 

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MedicAR

MedicAR

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I've been posting in the CG section on this but just realized that there was another thread on it here. I wish I had seen the stuff on Mike's site, I would have been all over that Joker.

 

Back to the original post, those are as authentic as you can find. There has been no hard evidence that Mr. Kane did not draw them and it is unlikely that there ever will be unless the publisher comes forward. The original book with the Batman sketch was in the $500 range new. The solicitation is in the OPG #19 (I think, I don't have mine handy) so you can look there, it will be in the 1988-1990 edition for sure as they were set to release with the Tim Burton movie. The Joker edition came out years later and was solicited in Previews for $750-1000 as I recall. I do not know if the Joker edition included a slipcase but don't think it did.

 

The Batman and Me books, for my money, are as close to iron clad guarantees as one can get for Kane art. There are a handful of sketches that were witnessed by the owners, but with those it comes down to trusting them and their story. These books were written by Kane with help from Tom Andrae and were solicited as a trade paperback, a hardback, a limited signed hardback, and a slipcased limited sketched/signed hardback. No limitations on the TPB and HB, but the signed edition was limited to 2500 copies and the sketched was limited to 1000.

 

I cannot remember a single sketch from those books that had batman in anything other than a profile (most, if not all, facing the left) or facing straight on. All have the zig zag lines on the sides. To be fair, though, this is a casual observation. I have not cataloged every picture I have seen, it's from my admittedly faulty memory.

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Dave Aikins

Dave Aikins

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and this is what I would have said if I wasn't a sarcastic ...and remembered what the original prices were. Thanks for that info!

 

But I really really enjoy picking on Bob Kane. It's so easy, and so much fun.

 

I got lucky many years ago (8-10?), and found a seller on ebay that had 3 of the signed copies with sketches for sale. For some reason, no one cared, and the seller also wanted a crazy amount for shipping...like $20 or more which was pretty crazy 10 years ago. I wanted some Batman tin toys he was selling as well, so I ended up winning the 2 toys and a copy of the book. I want to say the books ended up selling for under $100. I was amazed. I have one of the straight-on Batman portraits. It's nice!

 

I bet that guy who sold the 3 books is regretting that in today's market.

 

on a positive note, I'd like to say that Jerry Robinson was so nice to meet in person, as were Sprang and Shelly Moldoff. Jerry Robinson wrote a wonderful book about his life a couple of years ago called "Ambassador of Comics". It's a fantastic read, and it shows a lot about how classy Jerry was that he doesn't spend any time slamming Bob Kane. He just writes about what he did back then, and moves on...

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