CGC Issue Resolved
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This has been an educational thread, but it's really long so I think it's time for a recap:

 

1.) Spider-Dan buys slabbed books in blue labels.

 

2.) Cracks them out and sends them in for regarding.

 

3.) Results are:

- Avengers 1 Blue CGC 7.0 comes back Purple CGC 6.0 (Color Touched)

- JIM book Blue CGC 6.0 comes back Purple CGC 7.0 (Trimmed)

 

3.) Other boardies post here in the thread they have had restoration mistakes as well. Some comment that it has happened several times to them:

 

- VintageComics (page 2)

- Gambit (page 11)

- Lord Rahl (page 11)

- Namisgr (Page 23)

- Bleuhawaii (page 24)

- Spider-Dan comments it happened once before on a GA Batman (page 33)

 

Click on spoiler tag to read their actual comments:

 

 

It rarely happens but it does happen. It's happened to me.

 

 

Happened to me once before on a big money book.. I was pretty upset, but took the loss and re sold the book as is (Purple resto label).. When it happens is usually very minor color touch that some how slipped through the cracks, however the trimmed part is what scares me!.. that should never "slip" through! and id be irate if it did! (IMO the worse type of resto out there is trimmed books!)

 

rantrant

 

The trimmed one could be a false positive. I had a copy of Iron Man Sub Mariner 1 that I bought from the original owner several years ago. It came back 9.6 Trimmed. Now I knew for a fact that the book was not trimmed but it did have a funky cut. So I sent it back and it came back a 9.6 Blue. Especially with trimming, it can be tricky and no one can catch it 100% of the time. Other times, you can jump at shadows.

 

The CT baffles me though. That should have been caught the first time.

 

Either way, sorry that happened, expensive books to have it happen to. And 2 at the same time :pullhair:

 

I read through this but now can't find the questions. But I think this is the answer.

 

Namisgr had an ASM 129 that he purchased off the newsstand. He submitted the book 3-4 times, and the last time it came back PLOD with CT.

 

I remember this but I don't recall him submitting it 3 - 4 times. I just thought it was his personal raw copy, bought off the stands, and it came back 1st time as PLOD.

 

It was the ASM #121 I bought off the rack. It was graded 'right edge trimmed'. (My ASM #129 came back 9.6 blue label ;) )

 

It's not the only comic I've had graded where the restoration and trimming assessments were botched. In the early days of CGC, I cracked all of my slabbed purchases out, only to resubmit them years later for purposes of selling them. A couple of those changed label colors upon regrading.

 

Bottom line? CGC does the best job that they can with detecting restoration and trimming, but they are not infallable and make mistakes. Given that they make mistakes, any resubmission of a blue label comic runs the risk of changing label color upon regrading. Either the first or the second grading could be the accurate one.

 

Not to muddy the waters even further but this has happened to me as well. I resubbed my resub and it went from EXTENSIVE resto to MODERATE. I didn't get the graders notes from the first time so I don't know what the difference was.

 

Lets clear a few things up...

As I stated earlier in this thread, I did have this happen once before, a Batman went from Blue to Purple. It was implied that GA are held to different grading standard. So Ive only had 1 thread, not thread"s". Ive had quite a few books drop in grade without complaining here on the Boards, because I do know the risks involved.

 

 

4.) We get an update from Spider-Dan that he can resend his books IF he pays to do so…. (page 50)

 

 

:news:

 

Update - I just talked to CGC, and they told me they would be glad to look them over again, but I would have to pay another submission fee

 

:banana:

 

5.) Apparently, the resto misses are old news to the veterans that submit a lot.

 

From page 51:

 

The posts here that express their expectation CGC be 100% perfect with their restoration and trimming detection are missing the point that CGC is not now, has never been, and has never claimed to be perfect in these regards.. They have stated clearly that while they believe they do an outstanding job with detecting restoration and trimming (and I have no reason to doubt this), they are fallible and sometimes err.

 

Once that concept is understood, it is also easy to understand that every resubmission comes with the small risk that not only the grade but also the label color may change upon re-grading.

 

+1. Stinks when it happens but it happens.

 

Which is exactly why people were posting here that they lost some level of confidence in CGC. Because they did have the belief that CGC would be able to detect things like CT 100% of the time.

 

I think so far that was the biggest eye opener for people reading this thread. Learning this from the big submitters. That it does happen, and is part of the risk.

 

 

6.) The thread becomes a “Bleeding Cool” news story. http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/02/16/whats-in-a-cgc-slabbed-book-anyway/

 

7.) After the "Bleeding Cool" article, CGC agrees to recheck the books for Spider-Dan and they reach some private agreement. Spider-Dan claims they came to a reasonable resolution but will not be sharing the details publicly.

 

Just wanted to let everyone know, that both books were re-checked today, and both were restored. They were checked and checked again

 

While it doesn't say much for the grading a few years ago, it at least gives me confidence in the grading consistency today.

 

Harshen called me personally to give me the bad news. After a nice conversation, and many apologies, we came to a reasonable resolution.

 

Im not going to go into details, but I will say Harshen went above and beyond to take care of this.

 

It doesn't change the fact that there are books out there in blue labels that could have resto on them, but I feel much better about CGC's customer service

 

Maybe they readjusted his grading fees

Maybe they compensated him for the difference in value between the Blue labels to Purple labels, but don’t want it public to avoid setting a precedent.

At this point it doesn’t matter.

 

8.) Lessons learned:

 

- CGC misses resto sometimes (see #5 above) It happens.

 

- If you "Crack Press Resub" there is risk the book may come back PLOD. What level of risk is still being debated.

 

- If you are resubmitting an expensive book without pressing it 1st, keep it in the slab when you submit. It’s the only way CGC will believe you didn’t add the resto yourself in this type situation.

 

 

 

9.) Questions unanswered: If you play the CPR game and you want an expensive book pressed, can you send the book to Matt Nelson still in the blue slab and still have this protection? Since his organization is part of CGC now.

 

Great Re-Cap :applause:

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9.) Questions unanswered: If you play the CPR game and you want an expensive book pressed, can you send the book to Matt Nelson still in the blue slab and still have this protection? Since his organization is part of CGC now.

 

Link I provided earlier answers this question - for quick reading reference here again is Mark Zaid's response from a question I posed a year ago:

 

This is a question I'd like answered by Mark or Matt, and/or CCG.

 

Hypothetical scenario: a blue label book is submitted through Matt/CCS to be pressed. The book is cracked out, pressed and submitted to CGC.

 

When CGC examines the book, they discover the book is restored.

 

Now before the skeptics start lining-up to post Sasquatch and Nessy memes, I know of several instances where this predicament occurred, and in each situation, CGC barely wanted to own up to any responsibility for the mishap.

 

Is there any "buy back" or "buy out" scenario to help collectors in such situations, where they may have purchased a blue label book using CGC's blue universal label as their assurance and in complete confidence of CGC's ability to detect restoration, only to later discover their certified comics are actually restored?

 

As a follow-up to this question, what notes are logged on the CCS end so if such a situation occurred, the customer could have CCS back-up their claims the book was originally submitted in a blue holder?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Great question.

 

Although fortunately this is a very rare situation, I discussed the fact pattern with Harshen and the short answer is, yes, based on the guarantee CGC provides (as well as simply being a good business practice) there would be good-faith negotiations, as there has in the past when certain situations arose, to ensure the submitter is made financially whole.

 

Now, certain facts would need to exist. For example, the book would have to be submitted intact in its blue holder and no tampering present. So that means a cracked-out book submitted along with a blue label would not be eligible.

 

As far as your follow-up question, when a book is submitted to CCS intact in its holder a CCS employee will log that book into the system and verify the serial number listed by the customer. It will be noted that the book was in its holder. The book will be de-slabbed by a CCS employee and then proceed through the normal process. In the rare chance that previously undetected restoration is later identified by a CGC grader of a book that can be traced back through CCS there should be no issue regarding the proper chain-of-possession and verification of the information.

 

Let me know if my response does not satisfactorily address your questions.

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9.) Questions unanswered: If you play the CPR game and you want an expensive book pressed, can you send the book to Matt Nelson still in the blue slab and still have this protection? Since his organization is part of CGC now.

 

Link I provided earlier answers this question - for quick reading reference here again is Mark Zaid's response from a question I posed a year ago:

 

This is a question I'd like answered by Mark or Matt, and/or CCG.

 

Hypothetical scenario: a blue label book is submitted through Matt/CCS to be pressed. The book is cracked out, pressed and submitted to CGC.

 

When CGC examines the book, they discover the book is restored.

 

Now before the skeptics start lining-up to post Sasquatch and Nessy memes, I know of several instances where this predicament occurred, and in each situation, CGC barely wanted to own up to any responsibility for the mishap.

 

Is there any "buy back" or "buy out" scenario to help collectors in such situations, where they may have purchased a blue label book using CGC's blue universal label as their assurance and in complete confidence of CGC's ability to detect restoration, only to later discover their certified comics are actually restored?

 

As a follow-up to this question, what notes are logged on the CCS end so if such a situation occurred, the customer could have CCS back-up their claims the book was originally submitted in a blue holder?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Great question.

 

Although fortunately this is a very rare situation, I discussed the fact pattern with Harshen and the short answer is, yes, based on the guarantee CGC provides (as well as simply being a good business practice) there would be good-faith negotiations, as there has in the past when certain situations arose, to ensure the submitter is made financially whole.

 

Now, certain facts would need to exist. For example, the book would have to be submitted intact in its blue holder and no tampering present. So that means a cracked-out book submitted along with a blue label would not be eligible.

 

As far as your follow-up question, when a book is submitted to CCS intact in its holder a CCS employee will log that book into the system and verify the serial number listed by the customer. It will be noted that the book was in its holder. The book will be de-slabbed by a CCS employee and then proceed through the normal process. In the rare chance that previously undetected restoration is later identified by a CGC grader of a book that can be traced back through CCS there should be no issue regarding the proper chain-of-possession and verification of the information.

 

Let me know if my response does not satisfactorily address your questions.

 

Thanks! (thumbs u

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This has been an educational thread, but it's really long so I think it's time for a recap:

 

1.) Spider-Dan buys slabbed books in blue labels.

 

2.) Cracks them out and sends them in for regarding.

 

3.) Results are:

- Avengers 1 Blue CGC 7.0 comes back Purple CGC 6.0 (Color Touched)

- JIM book Blue CGC 6.0 comes back Purple CGC 7.0 (Trimmed)

 

3.) Other boardies post here in the thread they have had restoration mistakes as well. Some comment that it has happened several times to them:

 

- VintageComics (page 2)

- Gambit (page 11)

- Lord Rahl (page 11)

- Namisgr (Page 23)

- Bleuhawaii (page 24)

- Spider-Dan comments it happened once before on a GA Batman (page 33)

 

Click on spoiler tag to read their actual comments:

 

 

It rarely happens but it does happen. It's happened to me.

 

 

Happened to me once before on a big money book.. I was pretty upset, but took the loss and re sold the book as is (Purple resto label).. When it happens is usually very minor color touch that some how slipped through the cracks, however the trimmed part is what scares me!.. that should never "slip" through! and id be irate if it did! (IMO the worse type of resto out there is trimmed books!)

 

rantrant

 

The trimmed one could be a false positive. I had a copy of Iron Man Sub Mariner 1 that I bought from the original owner several years ago. It came back 9.6 Trimmed. Now I knew for a fact that the book was not trimmed but it did have a funky cut. So I sent it back and it came back a 9.6 Blue. Especially with trimming, it can be tricky and no one can catch it 100% of the time. Other times, you can jump at shadows.

 

The CT baffles me though. That should have been caught the first time.

 

Either way, sorry that happened, expensive books to have it happen to. And 2 at the same time :pullhair:

 

I read through this but now can't find the questions. But I think this is the answer.

 

Namisgr had an ASM 129 that he purchased off the newsstand. He submitted the book 3-4 times, and the last time it came back PLOD with CT.

 

I remember this but I don't recall him submitting it 3 - 4 times. I just thought it was his personal raw copy, bought off the stands, and it came back 1st time as PLOD.

 

It was the ASM #121 I bought off the rack. It was graded 'right edge trimmed'. (My ASM #129 came back 9.6 blue label ;) )

 

It's not the only comic I've had graded where the restoration and trimming assessments were botched. In the early days of CGC, I cracked all of my slabbed purchases out, only to resubmit them years later for purposes of selling them. A couple of those changed label colors upon regrading.

 

Bottom line? CGC does the best job that they can with detecting restoration and trimming, but they are not infallable and make mistakes. Given that they make mistakes, any resubmission of a blue label comic runs the risk of changing label color upon regrading. Either the first or the second grading could be the accurate one.

 

Not to muddy the waters even further but this has happened to me as well. I resubbed my resub and it went from EXTENSIVE resto to MODERATE. I didn't get the graders notes from the first time so I don't know what the difference was.

 

Lets clear a few things up...

As I stated earlier in this thread, I did have this happen once before, a Batman went from Blue to Purple. It was implied that GA are held to different grading standard. So Ive only had 1 thread, not thread"s". Ive had quite a few books drop in grade without complaining here on the Boards, because I do know the risks involved.

 

 

4.) We get an update from Spider-Dan that he can resend his books IF he pays to do so…. (page 50)

 

 

:news:

 

Update - I just talked to CGC, and they told me they would be glad to look them over again, but I would have to pay another submission fee

 

:banana:

 

5.) Apparently, the resto misses are old news to the veterans that submit a lot.

 

From page 51:

 

The posts here that express their expectation CGC be 100% perfect with their restoration and trimming detection are missing the point that CGC is not now, has never been, and has never claimed to be perfect in these regards.. They have stated clearly that while they believe they do an outstanding job with detecting restoration and trimming (and I have no reason to doubt this), they are fallible and sometimes err.

 

Once that concept is understood, it is also easy to understand that every resubmission comes with the small risk that not only the grade but also the label color may change upon re-grading.

 

+1. Stinks when it happens but it happens.

 

Which is exactly why people were posting here that they lost some level of confidence in CGC. Because they did have the belief that CGC would be able to detect things like CT 100% of the time.

 

I think so far that was the biggest eye opener for people reading this thread. Learning this from the big submitters. That it does happen, and is part of the risk.

 

 

6.) The thread becomes a “Bleeding Cool” news story. http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/02/16/whats-in-a-cgc-slabbed-book-anyway/

 

7.) After the "Bleeding Cool" article, CGC agrees to recheck the books for Spider-Dan and they reach some private agreement. Spider-Dan claims they came to a reasonable resolution but will not be sharing the details publicly.

 

Just wanted to let everyone know, that both books were re-checked today, and both were restored. They were checked and checked again

 

While it doesn't say much for the grading a few years ago, it at least gives me confidence in the grading consistency today.

 

Harshen called me personally to give me the bad news. After a nice conversation, and many apologies, we came to a reasonable resolution.

 

Im not going to go into details, but I will say Harshen went above and beyond to take care of this.

 

It doesn't change the fact that there are books out there in blue labels that could have resto on them, but I feel much better about CGC's customer service

 

Maybe they readjusted his grading fees

Maybe they compensated him for the difference in value between the Blue labels to Purple labels, but don’t want it public to avoid setting a precedent.

At this point it doesn’t matter.

 

8.) Lessons learned:

 

- CGC misses resto sometimes (see #5 above) It happens.

 

- If you "Crack Press Resub" there is risk the book may come back PLOD. What level of risk is still being debated.

 

- If you are resubmitting an expensive book without pressing it 1st, keep it in the slab when you submit. It’s the only way CGC will believe you didn’t add the resto yourself in this type situation.

 

 

 

9.) Questions unanswered: If you play the CPR game and you want an expensive book pressed, can you send the book to Matt Nelson still in the blue slab and still have this protection? Since his organization is part of CGC now.

 

I was interested in the topic of this thread but did not have time to look through 70+ pages, so thanks for summarizing.

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