How much of a premium are we talking for newsstand issues v/s direct editions? 10 10

[jcjames]

7 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

I am not denying that newsstand distribution has been in decline for decades now. That is common knowledge (at least it should be). I just think the extent/speed of the decline is greatly exaggerated by some people.

 

Just trying to understand what leads you to believe the numbers are greatly exaggerated? Is it from your personal experience at the time? Basically, what do you believe to be the most-accurate decline in newsstands during that period and what leads you to believe that? I'm honestly interested in getting a more accurate picture of the rate of changes from NS to DM issued during that time.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2017 by jcjames

[valiantman]

I don't believe it was 90/10 direct to newsstand in 1986, it was probably 50/50 for copies printed. But it's 30 years later, and the number printed is now irrelevant. What's available in the market? That's what we're counting... and anyone can double-check or take a new sample at any time.  It won't be 50/50, and time machines don't exist.  If it's 90/10 now, then it's 90/10.

[divad]

5 hours ago, valiantman said:

Is it more useful than ANYTHING else provided in this 3.5 year old topic?  Yes.

 

Uh, did you read the entire thread before coming to this conclusion . . . ?I believe I made some exemplary contributions here.

[Lazyboy]

2 hours ago, valiantman said:

I don't believe it was 90/10 direct to newsstand in 1986, it was probably 50/50 for copies printed. But it's 30 years later, and the number printed is now irrelevant. What's available in the market? That's what we're counting... and anyone can double-check or take a new sample at any time.  It won't be 50/50, and time machines don't exist.  If it's 90/10 now, then it's 90/10.

Whatever you say, Jaydog.

Nobody is asking what's available on eBay right now. Everybody can see that. People want to know the total quantity of extant copies.

[valiantman]

10 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Whatever you say, Jaydog.

Nobody is asking what's available on eBay right now. Everybody can see that. People want to know the total quantity of extant copies.

No one can know the total quantity of extant copies.  If we can't know for sure with Action Comics #1, with the whole world searching for it, then we can't know for any book.

Are you suggesting that direct editions and newsstands survived at the same rates?

If so, you're wrong.

If not, you're agreeing we need an estimate for extant copies as a ratio, not as a number of copies available on Ebay right now.  A ratio of what exists.

We have it. We can get it again. We can keep sampling. It's right in front of us.

When there are 50 copies of something on Ebay and only 10% are newsstand, then we have something useful.

If we check again in six months and it's 11% newsstand, we have something useful again, and more reason to trust both measures.

Etc.

Edited November 4, 2017 by valiantman

[valiantman]

11 hours ago, divad said:

Uh, did you read the entire thread before coming to this conclusion . . . ?I believe I made some exemplary contributions here.

I guess I missed those numbers you provided... where were they again?

[Lazyboy]

4 hours ago, valiantman said:

No one can know the total quantity of extant copies.

Exactly.

4 hours ago, valiantman said:

Are you suggesting that direct editions and newsstands survived at the same rates?

If so, you're wrong.

Based on what? There's no way to know that.

(I assume you are talking about distributed, rather than printed copies.)

4 hours ago, valiantman said:

If not, you're agreeing we need an estimate for extant copies as a ratio, not as a number of copies available on Ebay right now.  A ratio of what exists.

What is on eBay may be an accurate representation of what is for sale, but it is not an accurate representation of what exists.

4 hours ago, valiantman said:

We have it. We can get it again. We can keep sampling. It's right in front of us.

When there are 50 copies of something on Ebay and only 10% are newsstand, then we have something useful.

If we check again in six months and it's 11% newsstand, we have something useful again, and more reason to trust both measures.

Etc.

I've explained to you before how this will never be accurate due to the differing natures of the two distribution channels.

Newsstands and Directs probably have a roughly equivalent chance of being sold by collectors. Directs that didn't sell as new issues will make up the vast majority of what is being sold by dealers as back issues. Newsstands that didn't sell as new issues shouldn't exist. Some still do, but the quantities are not nearly as significant as the Direct back stock that is everywhere.

[valiantman]

Newsstands are harder to find than...

3 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

 Direct back stock that is everywhere.

[Brock]

"What is on eBay may be an accurate representation of what is for sale, but it is not an accurate representation of what exists."

This seems to be self-contradicting... it is arguing that while it is impossible to derive positive data from ebay, it is OK to derive negative data. Basic logic lets us know this is nonsense. What is on eBay may be an accurate representation of what is for sale, AND it may be an accurate representation of what exists. To proclaim that it is definitively NOT an accurate representation is to pretend to omnipotent knowledge. This is the beginner's mistake of trying to prove a negative...

In any event, move along... these are not the droids we're looking for.

[Lazyboy]

3 hours ago, Brock said:

"What is on eBay may be an accurate representation of what is for sale, but it is not an accurate representation of what exists."

This seems to be self-contradicting... it is arguing that while it is impossible to derive positive data from ebay, it is OK to derive negative data.

No, it isn't.

3 hours ago, Brock said:

Basic logic lets us know this is nonsense. What is on eBay may be an accurate representation of what is for sale, AND it may be an accurate representation of what exists. To proclaim that it is definitively NOT an accurate representation is to pretend to omnipotent knowledge. This is the beginner's mistake of trying to prove a negative...

Omniscience is not required. Basic logic says that Direct editions will be always more visible and easier to acquire because copies that didn't sell when they were new remain on the market.

7 hours ago, valiantman said:

Newsstands are harder to find than...

11 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

 Direct back stock that is everywhere.

But they still exist.

That's all I'm really saying. It may seem that Direct editions are much more common in the short term, but they really aren't.

 

[Cpt Kirk]

I was collecting comics long a few years before the first "direct sales issues" and I have a complete collection of all direct and newsstand issues for Batman, Detective, Superman, Action and JLA except for 3 very recent newsstand issues.   These observations are not data driven, but I would like to share them anyway:

1.  In the late 1970's and first half of the 1980's, you could just as easily find your comic books in drug stores as comic book stores.   Rather than go downtown to a local comic book shop, sometimes it was just easier to go by the nearby drug stores and find comic books on racks near magazines.   If I couldn't find my comics there, then I would go down to the local comic shop.   What's my point?    It seems like direct market and newsstand issues were common everywhere in the first half of the 1980's.   If you check ebay and the census, you will get general confirmation that direct sales and newsstands are all readily available.   If anything, the first year of direct sales issues can sometimes be a little harder to find.   By the way, it seems funny to me that Mile High Comics has higher asking prices for those early newsstand issues when it is actually the direct sales issues that are harder to find.

2.   By the late 1980's and certainly 1990's, you just about had to go the local comic shop to be sure to get your comic books.   Waldenbooks and some newsstands carried them, but by then most people were getting there comic books at their local comic shops.   I would occasionally have to run a Waldenbooks if my local comic shop blew it and missed an issue.

3.   I think the closure of most Waldenbook  Stores between 2005 and 2010 also was a significant event.   At that point, only Barnes and Nobles and a few newsstands carried newsstand issues (hit or miss, I might add).  Thus, some newsstand issues after that time are really hard to find, especially in the less popular titles (for me, the tough title to find newsstand issues was Detective Comics #800 and up).

Great topic, by the way.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Cpt Kirk

[Cpt Kirk]

I'd like to challenge anyone to produce newsstand variant of the following Rebirth Issues:  Batman 30, Detective 963, Superman 30, or Action 986.   Rumor is that they exist, but I've yet to see a single copy.   I personally believe the last Rebirth newsstand issues were Batman 29, TEC 962, Superman 29 and Action 985.

If you find one, please don't hesitate to send me PM.  I would glady pay $25 for each

Edited November 8, 2017 by Cpt Kirk

[divad]

For those latecomers to the topic . . . 

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by divad

[valiantman]

1 hour ago, divad said:

For those latecomers to the topic . . . 

 

My favorite part of this 2014 topic was -J telling me (and everyone else) that Spawn #1 doesn't matter if it's newsstand or direct edition. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by valiantman

[THE_BEYONDER]

Does GPA separate newsstand and direct Vol.2 ASMs?

[divad]

On 3/13/2014 at 2:20 PM, divad said:

Jaydogrules said:

I see TONS of both versions of the few key copper books that there are always available at any given time.

 

-J.

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but . . .

 

90 some odd listings for ASM 300 CGC, and only 9 are newsstand copies.

 

And you can run this search any week you want.

 

Now, which way are you going to slice that apple?

Today's count: 64 of 360 are newsstand copies . . . 

[FlyingDonut]

On 2/19/2014 at 12:08 PM, joe_collector said:

Here's my advice:

 

If you're looking for a comic anyway, and the prices are equivalent, then definitely get the newsstand copy, but I would *not* run around investing in newsstand issues, hoping to make money, as the vast majority of collectors do not care.

Five years later, this didn't hold up.

[THE_BEYONDER]

3 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

Five years later, this didn't hold up.

It’s crazy that newsstand copies are all the rage now.

[FlyingDonut]

2 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

It’s crazy that newsstand copies are all the rage now.

Have to give Chuck some credit here for creating the market.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Found these at a garage sale recently....

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by THE_BEYONDER